Consider The Consequences Before Being A Dick On A Server

[infiltrator_2k 29]

@Infiltrator_2K

The GUI has been removed from your post, please rule 24 regarding posting GUI/ID etc.

Failure to comply and there will be the appropriate punishments.

My bad sorry.

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

The Arma3 community I play with is very small and is getting smaller.

We normally play on a server which runs in-house addons not available via normal public methods.

Every now and again we think about running a public server along side our modded one.

To try and increase our numbers.

Alas though, from past experience none of our admins can be arsed to deal with the Troll fest that is Public Arma3.

We lasted all of 10-15mins once when we opened a server to the public.

Example :-

We use a Registered list of people who are allowed to fly the choppers in our missions and do other various important jobs in the mission.

The mission will kick you out of the chopper if you're A. not a pilot or B. not on the Register.

The base area has a No Shooting at base script running which remove the bullet, nade, explosive etc when used at base.

-==LoLIamL33T==-- joins the game

runs to the nearest chopper.

Gets in

Gets ejected

Gets in

Gets ejected

Gets in

Gets ejected

Gets in

Gets ejected

-==LoLIamL33T==-- Rejoins as a pilot

runs to the nearest chopper.

Gets in

Gets ejected

Gets in

Gets ejected

Gets in

Gets ejected

Gets in

Gets ejected

Gets out goes to ammo crate gets a gun and ammo

Runs back too chopper and stands there shooting chopper with blanks.

As admin at the time I am talking to him via chat trying to explain :)

He eventually realises this and runs over to me and shoots me with blanks.

All this time more of the general public are joining the server doing the same thing or worse.

One dude is taking Quadbikes and trying to blow up other vehicles with them because he can't shoot the base vehicles.

Another is placing endless explosives that keep being removed when placed.

One dude found the Service trucks on the runway and is ramming them into each other to explode them.

TeamSpeak is going nuts with regular players complaining about people driving right into the AO while they are setting up the FOB etc etc etc.

One guys is asking serious questions that make sense but is lost in all the "WTF no 3rd... this server sucks... do you have Altis Life ?" messages.

I am now a gibbering mess on the verge of exploding.

So the server gets closed and we play our normal modded server for another year.

So for me and my continued sanity (or lack of) YES a shared Global ban system is needed.

I find the best thing to do with trolls is to keep them in the server to pad the player count (which in turn brings in more legit players). So, disable their Esc menu to prevent them leaving, and ensure they cannot enter a vehicle or fire a weapon. Simply locking their session will remove any stimulation they are getting, so are more inclined to Alt + F4, so this is not preferred. Once they finally leave on their own, they have no more use to you and then the ban can be applied.

I also, to this day, perform small MP coding experiments on trolls. The type of experience which would be hard to wrangle someone to help with, such as when testing revive systems and other system which requires client-client or client-server-client code. My revive system was built with the help of about 30 trolls over a span of time, who were forced to aid with testing animation synchronization, injured state, leg wounded, grenade wounding, etc.

Also used trolls for numerous other experiments.

Most of the experiments I did with ragdoll physx, were aided by trolls. Such as high speed vehicle ejections, fatigue mechanisms, explosion mechanics and shrapnel simulation.

Also used trolls to find and test client memory leaks, which was very handy.

Tested some AI behavior using trolls, to test the rating mechanism. Again quite handy although not much actionable came from that work.

Next time you are using a flawless piece of code, stop and consider that trolls may have been used in its development. Humanely, of course. :)

Edited April 5, 2015 by MDCCLXXVI

[kklownboy 43]

...

Really? wow your worse. A admin Troll.... seems a PW is the easy way to go. Not sure why you guys need to be public? Is it the only way to get players? With your post I would think yes... Or is it a need to play with alot of players? it seems there should be a Server Ban for tools like you who need to express there power over loosers. Or maybe a thread; Consider The Consequences Before Being A Dick Server Admin.

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

Really? wow your worse. A admin Troll.... seems a PW is the easy way to go. Not sure why you guys need to be public? Is it the only way to get players? With your post I would think yes... Or is it a need to play with alot of players? it seems there should be a Server Ban for tools like you who need to express there power over loosers. Or maybe a thread; Consider The Consequences Before Being A Dick Server Admin.

Eh, a few thousand teamkillers later you may think differently ;)

I do not see how it is abuse either. If they were griefing/TKing other players on purpose, they became candidates to help with development. If they don't like it, well Alt + F4 is always available. Not too concerned with the feelings of someone coming in to bother players while I was paying $60-300/mo to keep the lights on.

If I'm a dick for extracting some value from griefers, so be it :)

[martin_lee 33]

@MDCCLXXVI

:D That's some genius use of trolls :P

[BL1P 35]

@MDCCLXXVI

:D That's some genius use of trolls :P

On a side note my first two names irl are lee martin :)

[Sari 18]

Eh, a few thousand teamkillers later you may think differently ;)

I do not see how it is abuse either. If they were griefing/TKing other players on purpose, they became candidates to help with development. If they don't like it, well Alt + F4 is always available. Not too concerned with the feelings of someone coming in to bother players while I was paying $60-300/mo to keep the lights on.

If I'm a dick for extracting some value from griefers, so be it :)

Amen to that.

On a side note my first two names irl are lee martin :)

[John Kozak 14]

So for me and my continued sanity (or lack of) YES a shared Global ban system is needed.

If you'd excuse me, I have another story to show a bit of perspective from player side.

Without false humility, I can say I am good (600 hours good) at ArmA 3. I'm commonly playing on Veteran or Elite so Regular is a bit of a breeze.

Once I was bored and came to a public server which was running a standard "Defend Kamino" mission. The difficulty was regular, and the guys were pretty inexperienced. So, I was ramping up kills much quicker than the rest of them.

After 20 minutes, I have noticed that one guy started to jump (literally 10 of meters into the air) around. I'm pointing him out to admin, he bans him... And after 30 more seconds, I find myself banned too.

Reason? I had score of ~40 while the rest of the guys combined had around 20. In their opinion I could only achieve that result using cheats.

Now, I'm permanently banned on their server - and I don't regret it, honestly. But with a "global ban" system - I would have been banned on ALL of the servers using it. Feel the difference? Just because of some idiot admin (or some troll who would have usurped the admin privilege) someone would be banned from a significant number of servers.

For the reference - I have never used any cheats; I have intentionally teamkilled only a few times where the players were cleanly trolling/TKing themselves. But if such a thing as above happens, I will not be begging to unban me from the "global list" - and any self-respecting player will not. Everyone would just start boycotting those servers, that's all.

P.S.Sorry for OT, but I wanted to point out that one needs to consider consequences of everything, not just of being a dick ;)

Edited April 5, 2015 by DarkWanderer

[BL1P 35]

If you'd excuse me, I have another story to show a bit of perspective from player side.

Without false humility, I can say I am good (600 hours good) at ArmA 3. I'm commonly playing on Veteran or Elite so Regular is a bit of a breeze.

Once I was bored and came to a public server which was running a standard "Defend Kamino" mission. The difficulty was regular, and the guys were pretty inexperienced. So, I was ramping up kills much quicker than the rest of them.

After 20 minutes, I have noticed that one guy started to jump (literally 10 of meters into the air) around. I'm pointing him out to admin, he bans him... And after 30 more seconds, I find myself banned too.

Reason? I had score of ~40 while the rest of the guys combined had around 20. In their opinion I could only achieve that result using cheats.

Now, I'm permanently banned on their server - and I don't regret it, honestly. But with a "global ban" system - I would have been banned on ALL of the servers using it. Feel the difference? Just because of some idiot admin (or some troll who would have usurped the admin privilege) someone would be banned from a significant number of servers.

For the reference - I have never used any cheats; I have intentionally teamkilled only a few times where the players were cleanly trolling/TKing themselves. But if such a thing as above happens, I will not be begging to unban me from the "global list" - and any self-respecting player will not. Everyone would just start boycotting those servers, that's all.

P.S.Sorry for OT, but I wanted to point out that one needs to consider consequences of everything, not just of being a dick ;)

I understand where your coming from.

But I don't think that type of admin group would last long in the group of admins that share the bans list.

I would imagine that if too many people complain about 1 set of admins from 1 particular server then that group would get removed from the global list and all bans they made would be removed from the global bans list.

Well thats how i would see it working :)

[ratszo 17]

Battleye bans extend to all battleye enabled servers --tho even battleye has an appeal process.

--And even Battleye has made mistakes in the past resulting in wrongful mass bannings.

Consider 'user-made/shared' banlists:

How are they appealed?

What are the uniform ban guidelines between server groups?

How does an Admin on one site know the reasons for a ban on another unknown site?

How can an Admin on one site talk to the Admin on another site about the ban?

Reputable server hosts can always explain the reason for bans on their servers

--not, "you were banned for something, somewhere, sometime by someone who I have no idea about."!

I saw this happen last week on a server site i read: Guy posts in the appeal section "Why am i banned? I've never played on your server before."

--Admin looks it up, says, "Found it, was in a 'Legacy' banlist. No reason given. Your ban is lifted, read the rules, and welcome."

What else is a reputable server Admin gonna say, certainly not "I don't know and I don't care."? --quick route to an empty server.

Moreover, who says what is banable and for how long does the ban run? One server group may perma-ban for one tk or "this guy is too good not to be cheating" in the mind of a 12 yearold server admin.

In other words, "Whose watching the watchers?"

My advice to players is, Don't ever join a server without knowing exactly who the admins are & how to reach them on ts & in writing.

[infiltrator_2k 29]

I understand where your coming from.

But I don't think that type of admin group would last long in the group of admins that share the bans list.

I would imagine that if too many people complain about 1 set of admins from 1 particular server then that group would get removed from the global list and all bans they made would be removed from the global bans list.

Well thats how i would see it working :)

^^^ 100% agree ^^^. Everything is open to abuse and there will be a system in place to root out people who unfairly ban others. Personally I'm very forgiving. When a player repeatedly TK's they get a warning. Continue and they get a temp ban. Continue after that and they get a permanent ban and they're added to the shared banlist. I also choose my admins very carefully.

[ratszo 17]

^^^ 100% agree ^^^. Everything is open to abuse and there will be a system in place to root out people who unfairly ban others. Personally I'm very forgiving. When a player repeatedly TK's they get a warning. Continue and they get a temp ban. Continue after that and they get a permanent ban and they're added to the shared banlist. I also choose my admins very carefully.

Ok, so one takes your word at face value you're a 'good admin' --how do you vouch for other bans on the banlist you know nothing about?

And if someone was on your banlist from god-knows-where, how would they appeal? Is teamspeak up? Is there a forum to post an appeal on?

And how would you know what was behind the ban if your server group didn't place the ban?

A ban for something by someone on some server you know nothing about, not even the date.

[BL1P 35]

Damn Ratszo your arguments are sound :(

O well there goes my plans to do a public server for another year or so.

Back to private mods or Passworded servers it is for me, too many dicks on public to even attempt a public server.

[tebsuuu 10]

this thread is pretty much like the gaming industry telling pirates not to pirate. it doesnt make a difference. why should those people be warned? i would rather like them to be banned on thousands of servers.

[infiltrator_2k 29]

Ok, so one takes your word at face value you're a 'good admin' --how do you vouch for other bans on the banlist you know nothing about?

And if someone was on your banlist from god-knows-where, how would they appeal? Is teamspeak up? Is there a forum to post an appeal on?

And how would you know what was behind the ban if your server group didn't place the ban?

A ban for something by someone on some server you know nothing about, not even the date.

There will be players who have been unfairly banned, but there is an appeal process and if the player has been banned by an admin who has been previously found to be overzealous in unfairly banning players they are removed from the verified servers list. There will be injustices as with everything in life, but it's down to the individual to put forward their case to get the ban lifted. However, if several admins have reported the same individual on different occasions for the same offence the evidence will be overwhelming and I can imagine the ban will justifiable stay in place.

With the exception for people who use game hacks, I personally don't want to see anyone banned and I'd rather players just adhered to server rules.

[semiconductor 309]

If Arma 3 had a decent anti-cheat protection, this thread would have never been created in the first place. Oh the irony. :)

And it's only getting worse, sadly. If I understood the last SITREP correctly, to join the protected server "...you'll need to either let the game restart itself upon connecting to a BE-enabled server, or start BE manually". Now I'm not really sure who's going to inconvenience players more - cheaters or the system that was supposed to be a protection from them.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Semiconductor

[roshnak 41]

If Arma 3 had a decent anti-cheat protection, this thread would have never been created in the first place. Oh the irony. :)

And it's only getting worse, sadly. If I understood the last SITREP correctly, to join the protected server "...you'll need to either let the game restart itself upon connecting to a BE-enabled server, or start BE manually". Now I'm not really sure who's going to inconvenience players more - cheaters or the system that was supposed to be a protection from them.

Basically every PVP game has at least one thread like this on its official forums.

There are always going to be people who like to rile others up, and there are always going to be people who complain about it and cook up schemes to try to control people's behavior.

Edited April 7, 2015 by roshnak

[AidanOK 10]

I have been playing Arma 3 for a grand total of about a week so far. I have experienced more glitches with this game than any other in recent memory.

However, the realism of it keeps me wanting to go, and I really want to find a good RPG group to do this with.

Although, from the few RPG servers I have stepped into so far it doesn't seem to be real RPG. Just a bunch of wankers playing like its garry's mod.

[HeadPop 11]

3 words. Coop with Password.

Amen brother. If you wanna play with your friends peacefully, use passwords or whitelist

---------- Post added at 07:45 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------

If Arma 3 had a decent anti-cheat protection, this thread would have never been created in the first place. Oh the irony. :)

And it's only getting worse, sadly. If I understood the last SITREP correctly, to join the protected server "...you'll need to either let the game restart itself upon connecting to a BE-enabled server, or start BE manually". Now I'm not really sure who's going to inconvenience players more - cheaters or the system that was supposed to be a protection from them.

Its always difficult to make a good anticheat in a game who anyone can modify the files easily..

the cheaters should be get banned forever.

---------- Post added at 07:46 ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 ----------

I have been playing Arma 3 for a grand total of about a week so far. I have experienced more glitches with this game than any other in recent memory.

However, the realism of it keeps me wanting to go, and I really want to find a good RPG group to do this with.

Although, from the few RPG servers I have stepped into so far it doesn't seem to be real RPG. Just a bunch of wankers playing like its garry's mod.

ArmA 3 is a shit. But is Our shit. And We like it. xD

[infiltrator_2k 29]

In order for public servers to survive attitudes and misconceptions need to change; players need to understand that just because they've paid for Arma 3 it doesn't give them the right to "dick" around in public servers. The immature children who get off on ruining other people's gameplay need educating IMO. They need to appreciate the time and resources what go into hosting a dedicated server. They need to appreciate that admins finance and administrate these servers for their enjoyment and that be able to join a server is a privilege and not a right just because they've purchased the game.

[haleks 8206]

I have been playing Arma 3 for a grand total of about a week so far. I have experienced more glitches with this game than any other in recent memory.

[...] I really want to find a good RPG group to do this with.

I assume you're playing a Life mod? If so, don't blame a game for glitches wich are most likely introduced by a mod...

(Sorry if I'm a bit off-topic)

[Sub-Human 10]

However, the realism of it keeps me wanting to go, and I really want to find a good RPG group to do this with.

Roleplaying and realism do not go hand in hand in this game. Majority of the people playing Altis Life have nothing better to do. I suggest stick with a clan for co-op missions or find a good Patrol Ops server like Zeus.

[Deadly Dodo 10]

If you'd excuse me, I have another story to show a bit of perspective from player side.

Without false humility, I can say I am good (600 hours good) at ArmA 3. I'm commonly playing on Veteran or Elite so Regular is a bit of a breeze.

Once I was bored and came to a public server which was running a standard "Defend Kamino" mission. The difficulty was regular, and the guys were pretty inexperienced. So, I was ramping up kills much quicker than the rest of them.

After 20 minutes, I have noticed that one guy started to jump (literally 10 of meters into the air) around. I'm pointing him out to admin, he bans him... And after 30 more seconds, I find myself banned too.

Reason? I had score of ~40 while the rest of the guys combined had around 20. In their opinion I could only achieve that result using cheats.

Now, I'm permanently banned on their server - and I don't regret it, honestly. But with a "global ban" system - I would have been banned on ALL of the servers using it. Feel the difference? Just because of some idiot admin (or some troll who would have usurped the admin privilege) someone would be banned from a significant number of servers.

For the reference - I have never used any cheats; I have intentionally teamkilled only a few times where the players were cleanly trolling/TKing themselves. But if such a thing as above happens, I will not be begging to unban me from the "global list" - and any self-respecting player will not. Everyone would just start boycotting those servers, that's all.

P.S.Sorry for OT, but I wanted to point out that one needs to consider consequences of everything, not just of being a dick ;)

I see this as a huge problem and see what your saying and the other side needs to be recognized as there is the opposite problem, as Arma players we all would've had to start from somewhere like I, I only started playing just as the Arma 3 Alpha started and got the supporter edition after trying Arma 2 (only like a couple of hours) on a friends PC, this means I hadn't had the greatest experience and am not a veteran of the series but I've seen awful issues with people getting kicked and banned from servers for just being new to the game, after playing 200+ Hours I still don't know all the ins and outs, I've done things like run into a tree in helicopter by accident or knocked a wheel on a rock and broke the wheel meaning we were stuck by accident and I was lectured on how I was trolling the server and I've seen it happened to a couple of my friends. So if you have a bunch of elitist veterans on a couple of servers saying that you are a troll and get globally banned how are you going to argue that several people who are elitists that there ban is wrong since your quote was,

However, if several admins have reported the same individual on different occasions for the same offence the evidence will be overwhelming and I can imagine the ban will justifiable stay in place.

Also how would you check that their reason was valid, as your just working off the number of people banning them and not any hard evidence and reliable sources, your system can be flawed by closely linked servers that just ban someone on different dates so that it would be on "different occasions" . And when they'd make an appeal it is denied because 3 servers didn't like them, and this could all source from someone being just new to the game.

Lastly I'd like to note you didn't answer properly answer the crucial question Ratszo made,

"And if someone was on your banlist from god-knows-where, how would they appeal? Is teamspeak up? Is there a forum to post an appeal on?"

How would one appeal, because you seem to be hell-bent on banning people and not actually looking at the potential catastrophe your system would do to server population, as Darkrunner said

Everyone would just start boycotting those servers, that's all.

Servers would have lowered population as people would start getting banned so frequently and other would be unable to access it who would want to play on those servers where the community becomes so limited as people have been banned so unjustly and it doesn't seem worth the hassle to appeal than just go play on a server with a more controlled ban list limited to that server which is more friendly and open armed, it seems your trying to create a pubic community that is very isolated.

[Sturmkrahe 10]

This is a bad idea. A person shouldn't be barred from multiplayer at the whim of incompetent volunteer admins:

http://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/2atnz1/time_to_find_a_new_gametype_i_guess/ciywf5x?context=3