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IndeedPete

Units Are In Combat Mode On Mission Start Since 1.40?

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Good day!

I really have to ask this as it's driving me (a bit) crazy. Been running stable branch and ever since 1.40 was released, on some mission starts (in the editor at least) units seem to start in combat mode. That means they're lying down on start, break ambient animations and patrols tend to leave their pattern and run around screaming, not to mention vehicles speeding off road like hell. Within the first few seconds of a mission they'll calm down again and most (not all) units are going back to normal. Patrols are still not returning to their safe walk, instead they continue their patrols with weapons at the ready. I first observed this in a mission with lots of AI but without any enemy on the map. It's not really a problem but it kills immersion, especially in a calm intro mission. And I haven't had this issue in 1.38.

Anyone else can confirm my observations? Remember, lots of AI but no enemies.

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Not seeing anything unusual units all have weapons lowered at mission start "AWARE" mode detected, if they have waypoints they are still lowered but raise the weapon now and again, no calling out or lying down unless enemy encountered.

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Hm, validated my steam cache out of the blue - everything's fine. It seems to occur in missions with lots of AI divided only into few groups (for performance reasons). I'll try to capture some footage.

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------

Here's a video showing the problem:

It shows two WIP missions, first one without any mods, the second one running with CBA, toadie's weapons (and Joint Rails), Blastcore and two of my own mods. In both missions units (some, not all) will go into combat mode on start and get back to normal after a few seconds. You can see them lying down and shouting "all clear" when returning back to normal. Patrols set to "SAFE" will remain in tactical walk, weapons at the ready. In the first mission, there is no hostile AI near-by (yet some are on the map) and in the second mission are no hostiles at all. Only BLUFOR and Civies, with Independent set to friendly with BLUFOR. Furthermore, there are over 300 AI active in the second mission, divided into 64 groups. i've been working on both missions within the past few months / weeks and this issue never occured until Arma 3 1.40.

Don't tell me there's no one out there experiencing this! :/ I'll try to cobble together a "clean" repro mission without ambient stuff and scripts, like that radio you can hear in the background etc.

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Hi mate! Experienced the same thing just now. Had units in ambientCombat function, and they broke out of it - and the only way they could do that was if they detected the player (who was the other side of the map!). Strangely enough, I moved the units away from an ambient empty Strider and the problem resolved itself. Seems if a unit is too near anything, it goes into combat mode... something's certainly awry!

---------- Post added at 22:54 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------

Just watched your video too - that's not right! :/ I'll upvote on the Feedback tracker if there's a ticket!

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I'll create a repro mission first and see if I can reproduce the issue under "lab conditions" before I open a ticket. Haven't had the time yet, hopefully tomorrow. "Glad" to hear you've got at least a similar issue.^^

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I think, I found the reason. Took your repro and did systematic elimination work. The result is such minimalistic repro:

Repro

(if you want link it somewhere, better move to own dropbox, I may delete it soon)

Seems, it is triggered by destroying of nearby dome-shape tent due to collision with pallete object. IMO it's part of lately announced for 1.40 AI changes toward better danger awareness. They apparently interprete flatting this tent as "potential danger sign" event (BTW, findnearestEnemy returns null when they enter combat mode, so no false enemy contact).

Edited by Rydygier

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Hm, that's a good lead. But even if so, why would AI throughout the whole map act that way when somewhere, far away a palette crashes into a building? Maybe, they're a bit super-aware now?

I was assuming it would somehow depend on objects around as I wasn't able to trigger that behaviour on an empty map. Better awareness is a cool thing, yet already a reason to lie down and shout around? Not to mention the patrols refusing to return to safe walk.

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Yep, certainly still good for feedback tracker ticket. Who sane would go combat because of tent broken? They obviously need to tweak that. Idea behind, I guess, is AI being awared of near object destruction. If that happens mapwide - it's next issue to solve for BI devs.

EDIT: but I can't confirm, it's across the whole map. Moved the tent here and there and determined, it has to be in general in front of them and not too far to trigger combat mode - somehow knowledge based possibly. Also added second group several hundreds meters farther to check, if they communicate about danger perhaps, but no. Only the group near collision reacted. Also didn't saw such reaction for two other groups, I checked in your original repro. Perhaps there was other collisions triggering that for the others groups?

Edited by Rydygier

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Might be, first encounter I had with this bug was a simple script forcing units to do this "show the way" animation at some roadblocks across Stratis (also know from the first campaign level). Didn't explicitly code a loop to keep them that way, just switchmoved them into the automatically looped animation. Then I noticed they're breaking their animation to lie down, get back up and just stand there. Next thing I noticed was during a chopper flight - the main intro scene in that particular mission the repro mission is derived from (player as passenger). The chopper was set to safely start like 500 metres north of the air base, heading east, right above Agia Marina. It would start its flight safe in the first few seconds of the mission, then speed up bat shit crazy, crossing the village and finally calming down again, of course accompanied by a nice "all clear" from the pilot. Now, how on earth would a pilot in a flying and noisy-as-fuck helo sense a palette cracking a tent 500 metres south of his position? :D

Definitely on the to-tweak list, I'll update the ticket later once I had a proper go in the editor and can confirm that palette being the root of all evil. But it's a good idea in general. Though might be integratable into the AWARE mode. Unless there's an explosion or a really loud noise right next to an AI, then I could understand a switch to COMBAT mode.

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Can confirm the palette-tent-thing. It was apparently triggered in several areas because I copypasted this problematic composition across three sites on the map. Still doesn't explain why a helo pilot would sense a cracking palette. The ticket stays valid in my opinion.

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It also happens if you just damage certain objects, it loos like it's being used as a trigger to make the AI look more responsive.

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The ticket has been assigned. So there's hope for improvements in the near future.

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Thanks for the investigation here!

The AI gets alerted because of a destroyed property. Which, I agree, is kind of unnecessary ;)

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