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Community Upgrade Project - CUP

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6 hours ago, Wiki said:

And what if you load your mission with CUP only?

Then I can't test if the mission works, unfortunately, because the vanilla game doesn't allow you to attach explosives to vehicles, but I did try using setdamage 1 a few times on it to make it instantly die. The result for me was that it tilted about 5 degrees downwards in the direction of the stern over the course of about sixty seconds. This filled the rear deck area with water to about the ankle high level, but nothing more happened beyond that.

 

8 hours ago, hcpookie said:

Isn't destroying CIVI assets considered ROE violation?  :)

It showed hostile intent. :f:

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On 1/25/2018 at 2:03 PM, pognivet said:

When the Chernarussian civilian fishing boat is destroyed it doesn't sink, at least not in this mission I'm playing. It's set on Tanoa and you have to destroy it by swimming underneath it and placing C4 on its hull with ACE. After I detonate the C4 it explodes, but stays on the surface forever.

 

Please make a ticket on our tracker (bugs.cup-arma3.org). Thank you.

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10 hours ago, deathwatch4 said:

Does anyone currently have any issues with CUP vehicles being incredibly strong? I've shot T-72's in the rear and they take no damage. I've tried it with ACE on and off, and tried using RHS vehicles against them, same results.

 

What did you shoot it with? Obviously, if it was a pistol that is intended behavior, but if it was an RPG-7 or a tank cannon, it's not ;)

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2 hours ago, Alwarren said:

 

What did you shoot it with? Obviously, if it was a pistol that is intended behavior, but if it was an RPG-7 or a tank cannon, it's not ;)

Mostly a variety of AT munitions. Stuff like RPG's, AT4's, Javelins etc. I don't know if it's an RHS problem in which the can't penetrate CUP armor. I know it's not CUP's responsibility to worry about RHS stuff. Will a compatibility patch for RHS solve this issue?

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2 hours ago, deathwatch4 said:

Mostly a variety of AT munitions. Stuff like RPG's, AT4's, Javelins etc. I don't know if it's an RHS problem in which the can't penetrate CUP armor. I know it's not CUP's responsibility to worry about RHS stuff. Will a compatibility patch for RHS solve this issue?

 

Never mix CUP and RHS since both mods differ in damage models.

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2 hours ago, audiocustoms said:

 

Never mix CUP and RHS since both mods differ in damage models.

Yeah, that's a good point. It's just a shame because RHS+CUP is a great combo.

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Until Tanks DLC releases none of the armor sets mix well.  The PLA mod is the same way, however PLA+CUP seems to be pretty evenly matched... go figure.

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17 minutes ago, hcpookie said:

Until Tanks DLC releases none of the armor sets mix well.  The PLA mod is the same way, however PLA+CUP seems to be pretty evenly matched... go figure.

Will the Tanks bring most mods to a similar damage model? I assume many mods coming out will make use of it if I'm not mistaken.

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18 minutes ago, deathwatch4 said:

Will the Tanks bring most mods to a similar damage model? I assume many mods coming out will make use of it if I'm not mistaken.

 

I doubt that a change to the damage model is planned for Tank DLC.

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9 hours ago, deathwatch4 said:

Mostly a variety of AT munitions. Stuff like RPG's, AT4's, Javelins etc. I don't know if it's an RHS problem in which the can't penetrate CUP armor. I know it's not CUP's responsibility to worry about RHS stuff. Will a compatibility patch for RHS solve this issue?

RHS uses it's own armor system that isn't compatible with other addons. It's a neat system but you have to make sure if you are using Red Hammer armored vehicles in a mission that both sides are only using RHS armor. You can mix and match soft skin vehicles though just fine (trucks and cars).

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1 hour ago, sputnik monroe said:

RHS uses it's own armor system that isn't compatible with other addons.

No, we don't...

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Either way, there's some definite incompatibility issues between the two. Which is of course expected, after all it's two mods with different goals in mind of course.

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Would have been awesome to have a universal ballistics / armor mod like the REAL ARMOR mod but built in by BIS or least a system that can be updated by the community.

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Hello, 

In light of the upcoming dlc, can we expect some form of tank interiors being added for the Cup steel beasts?

Cheers for all your work by the way! 

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On 1/25/2018 at 10:11 PM, deathwatch4 said:

Does anyone currently have any issues with CUP vehicles being incredibly strong? I've shot T-72's in the rear and they take no damage. I've tried it with ACE on and off, and tried using RHS vehicles against them, same results.

 

Yes, definitely.  Just last night I called in a AH-64 for a CAS mission (ALiVE mission), and the AH-64 just ravages this T-72 for like 3-4 minutes straight, almost point blank range, hitting top, rear, front, everywhere, run after run, just totally annihilating it every pass, and nothing happens to the tank.  No damage, nothing.  I'm watching this with Binoculars from a nearby hill and was stunned.  Eventually my CAS ran out of ammo or fuel and RTB...but the tank was still there, like new!

 

Basically, I'm only using CUP and Alive on the Tanoa map.  

 

Good day!

DrDetroit

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Rockets, missiles, or the cannon? If it's the cannon, then it's probably right, more or less. The Apache has a 30mm autocannon, even with AP rounds, that's not gonna impress a tank very much (at least not in a way that would be obvious).

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2 hours ago, drdetroit said:

 

Yes, definitely.  Just last night I called in a AH-64 for a CAS mission (ALiVE mission), and the AH-64 just ravages this T-72 for like 3-4 minutes straight, almost point blank range, hitting top, rear, front, everywhere, run after run, just totally annihilating it every pass, and nothing happens to the tank.  No damage, nothing.  I'm watching this with Binoculars from a nearby hill and was stunned.  Eventually my CAS ran out of ammo or fuel and RTB...but the tank was still there, like new!

 

Basically, I'm only using CUP and Alive on the Tanoa map.  

 

Good day!

DrDetroit

I experience the same problem when I place CUP tanks and have them fight each other. No damage was inflicted on any tanks. At first I thought it was just RHS, but it seems that most of the armored vehicles in CUP suffer the same issue. I tried only using cup and no other addons as well. I'm not sure if it's an issue with me or not.

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58 minutes ago, dragon01 said:

Rockets, missiles, or the cannon? If it's the cannon, then it's probably right, more or less. The Apache has a 30mm autocannon, even with AP rounds, that's not gonna impress a tank very much (at least not in a way that would be obvious).

 

Looks like the AH-64 came in with rockets, then cannon for minutes on end.  I don't know man, everything I read is that the Apache's 30mm can punch holes in a modern day tank like swiss cheese, let alone hundreds/thousands of 30mm uranium depleted rounds bouncing off the top and rear end like bb's.  I don't think so...but could be wrong.  I mean, isn't it a CAS tank buster, like the A-10?

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Well, I did a quick test with an RHS T-72 and a CUP T-72 vs. their respective mod's AH 64 and TOW launchers.  I had a harder time with the CUP T-72, but I could disable it with 2 hits of TOW to the point that it caught fire (hit in the space between turret and hull from the rear). With the RHS T-72 one hit of RHS TOW was enough.  Both mod's AH 64 couldn't do much with their cannons, but the hellfires did the job - also cross-mod, while i'm at it...

 

BUT:

 

I observed that AI gunners can't or won't use the Hellfires for some reason - they seem to be unable to get a lock or whatever.  So if you play ab ALiVE mission with an AI manned CAS Heli, it may be utterly incapable of using the Hellfires at all.

 

Hope that helps a bit, although I have no idea how to overcome the AI gunner problem.

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3 hours ago, drdetroit said:

 

Looks like the AH-64 came in with rockets, then cannon for minutes on end.  I don't know man, everything I read is that the Apache's 30mm can punch holes in a modern day tank like swiss cheese, let alone hundreds/thousands of 30mm uranium depleted rounds bouncing off the top and rear end like bb's.  I don't think so...but could be wrong.  I mean, isn't it a CAS tank buster, like the A-10?

It is, but that's what the Hellfires are for. Neither rockets nor the cannon of the Apache are particularly good at damaging tanks, especially since IIRC, the ones we have have HEDP ammo loaded. This can detrack a tank or kill its gun (chancy shots), but it won't penetrate the armor. Remember, it's more or less all HEAT, and 30mm isn't much for that purpose. Rockets probably could have disabled it, but again, I wouldn't expect them to explode a tank by themselves. A-10, with its mix of DU and HE rounds, is a whole different story, even the shells it uses are larger, despite being the same caliber (and even then, "cutting tanks in half" is an exaggeration. It's mostly supposed to use missiles to deal with them).

 

A proper way to deal with a tank is an ATGM of some sorts, or large caliber guns. Other weapons can damage tracks, optics or armament, maybe cause some spallation, but don't expect an autocannon to punch through tank armor. Even an old, monkey-model T-72 has good enough protection to stand up to them. HEDP rounds, like the ones used by Apache, should work against APCs and older IFVs. 

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5 hours ago, tourist said:

Well, I did a quick test with an RHS T-72 and a CUP T-72 vs. their respective mod's AH 64 and TOW launchers.  I had a harder time with the CUP T-72, but I could disable it with 2 hits of TOW to the point that it caught fire (hit in the space between turret and hull from the rear). With the RHS T-72 one hit of RHS TOW was enough.  Both mod's AH 64 couldn't do much with their cannons, but the hellfires did the job - also cross-mod, while i'm at it...

 

BUT:

 

I observed that AI gunners can't or won't use the Hellfires for some reason - they seem to be unable to get a lock or whatever.  So if you play ab ALiVE mission with an AI manned CAS Heli, it may be utterly incapable of using the Hellfires at all.

 

Hope that helps a bit, although I have no idea how to overcome the AI gunner problem.

The radar / hellfire lock is broken on the Apache for now.

Will be fixed in the next update.

For now, if you use hellfire L (radar lock), you won't be able to have a lock if you are above 10 or 15m

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13 hours ago, Rak1445 said:

In light of the upcoming dlc, can we expect some form of tank interiors being added for the Cup steel beasts?

 

The short answer is No.

The slightly longer answer is Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

 

It's simply too much work to add this to, what, 20 or so vehicles in CUP. It *might* happen for a few select vehicles, but even that is doubtful. 

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9 hours ago, deathwatch4 said:

I experience the same problem when I place CUP tanks and have them fight each other. No damage was inflicted on any tanks. At first I thought it was just RHS, but it seems that most of the armored vehicles in CUP suffer the same issue. I tried only using cup and no other addons as well. I'm not sure if it's an issue with me or not.

 

I just tried an Abrams vs. a T-72, and the T-72 exploded after the second hit with the M1's main cannon. They were facing off frontal. The same result with RHS loaded, no such issue.

Apache with Hellfire was a similar result. The first hit immobilized the tank, prompting the crew to disembark. The third missile killed it. I guess the damage of the Hellfire could be upped a bit, but definitely no such thing as an invincible tank.

 

If you can make a repro mission, please open a ticket on our bug tracker.

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Thanks for the help guys. I'll guess I'll just have to wait till someone makes and RHS-CUP compatibility patch at some point. Keep up the good work!

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2 hours ago, deathwatch4 said:

Thanks for the help guys. I'll guess I'll just have to wait till someone makes and RHS-CUP compatibility patch at some point. Keep up the good work!

 

I've tried some more combinations:

 

  • CUP Javelin vs. RHS T-72
  • RHS Javelin vs. CUP T-72
  • CUP Abrams vs. RHS T-72
  • CUP Abrams vs. CUP T-72

All of the above worked as expected. Javelin tears up any T-72 in one hit (in one case the ammo started to cook off, I had ACE loaded). Abrams tore any T-72 a new one with one or two shots. With CUP vs. RHS T-72, on the first try the engine caught fire, and on second try the turret exploded, all with a single shot.

 

If you have any issues then I need a repro mission in order to find out what is going on, but from what I can see, everything works as expected and mixes just fine.

 

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