Revealing Laser Designated Target while Piloting Fast Air

[fiestamasta 13]

Hello all,

I've been having an issue that has been bugging the hell out of me and my group.

I usually fly as our pilot, whether it be fast air or helo I do it all. We've recently tried to get into actually doing some bombing runs with a Laser Designator as opposed to just guns and rockets.

Though I'm having a very hard time REVEALING the Laser Designated Target. I want to clarify that my problem is revealing the target itself (White Box). Not with actually locking on to drop the bomb (White Diamond).

We've tried testing this on an airfield, open area, on a building and during our testing the off chance that I miraculously manage to reveal the target (White Box Appears) I can circle back around and lock on no problem.

When I start my run I am usually at an altitude of ~700m flying level approximately 5kms from the target. As I approach around 2km I have to dip my nose down and literally fly straight at the target spamming my "T" key (Reveal Target and Lock Target). With about a 33% success rate I manage to reveal the target. However because of my diving approach I am down either about to fly right into the target and/or am in no position to lock and release my Laser Guided Bomb. Thus requiring me to circle back around to fly level and release a locked bomb. All of this taking a considerable amount of time. On average it takes me about 3-5 fly overs to actually deliver the payload on target. As you can imagine this is very frustrating not only as a pilot but for the ground team as well.

Also worth noting is that my 33% success rate I mentioned is during testing runs when I already know exactly what I am dropping the bomb on. As revealing the laser target doesn't work unless I am flying straight into the target.

If we are on an actual mission and I get a request for LGB on target, forget it. No one it is going to work unless JTAC marks the exact spot on the map, I open my own map, shift click for personal waypoint and repeat my process above.

There has got to be a better way to do this then the process that I have outlined above. It seems the "window" to reveal a target is absolutely tiny. ~1.2km away with maybe a ~0-3 degree deviation from the nose of your plane.

I've tried the "cycle target" "cycle empty" "cycle vehicle" targets but they don't seem to work. But perhaps I may be doing something wrong.

Has anyone else had a better experience with this?

[eggbeast 3673]

well, any target needs to be "revealed" to blufor, so having the guy designating press his right mouse button on his own laser target will help "reveal" / declare the target to his group, and, assuming you are 4th man in thegroup etc, the commander of the group can do a target command to add a red marker to the spot.

F4 (you)

2 (target that)

laser target

ok lasertargets also need to be stationary and reflecting off a nice piece of ground for you see them easily. once you acquire it, have the designator move onto target at the last minute as you drop your bomb. this reduces the chances of thetanks being aware of the laser painting their hull and running away or launching smoke CM

i would say from experience of thousands of hours using lasers that you often have to pass over the target once at medium altitude (say 2km) with a viewdistance of 3km+ to acquire target, assuming your guy on the ground is painting something you can see on your run in (i.e. not in a hollow, or obscured by bushes or walls etc)

this is fairly normal IRL too. a pilot would normally seek a clear target and a clear GO from the ground and command that he has a clear, military target, and civs and friendlies are well away, so passing over the target happens a lot with ground designated targets.

lastly, the airspeed you choose, the altitude, the number of enemy units/targets in vicinity, and your view distance and weather can all mess this up. if you use a modded plane then specific settings for the ammo, mag, weapon and aircraft are vital to be able to lock targets well and quickly.

some examples from our A2 aircraft mod

vehicle

driverCanSee = 31;

gunnerCanSee = 31;

laserScanner = 1;

radarType = 4;

irScanRangeMin = 300;

irScanRangeMax = 3000;

irScanToEyeFactor = 3; //means the scanner will look 3x further than your viewdistance, up to i think the max. so if the max is very high (10000m) and your viewdistance is very high (5000m) then it compiles a target sweep of 10km radius, which can take an awfully long time to process if you have a busy mission.

proof of this is that we use onboard lasers in our apaches and target them on take-off in an open patch of desert away from any targets, with viewdistance turned down. this allows us to acquire and know about the target before entering the AO.

ammo

laserLock = 1;

weapon

canLock = 2;

weaponLockSystem = "16 + 8 + 4";

weaponLockDelay = 2.5;

hope it helps

[fiestamasta 13]

Hey eggbeast,

thank you for your response. This certainly clarifies things a lot for me.

So you say in your experience with using laser designators and LGBs you still usually have to do at least two passes? One for getting the white box? And then of course the second run for the diamond lock on?

I'm curious as to what you were saying about locking on with the Apache. If I modify the ammo and config values would I be able to acquire the white box of the laser designated target from very far away?

Also, what is your process in acquiring the laser designated target as far as controls are concerned? Do you use "T" or the Reveal Target command?

Do you know if there is a way to acquire the target without flying straight at it. I guess that's my biggest problem right now. Whenever I come in for an attack run. I end up having to point the nose of the plane down as if I'm going to fly right into the target (thus of course losing lots of altitude and gaining some unwanted airspeed)

Unless I'm doing it wrong, I find it strange that the range to acquire the target (white box) around 1.2 kilometers is significantly less than the range to lock onto said white box with the diamond. Considering if I can get the target to show up I have absolutely no problem locking onto it to drop the LGB.

[EricJ 724]

Just press T and the bomb will lock on and go from there. Admittedly I haven't done much LGB dropping from the pilot's side so I could have done it once during a practice session. And no you have to point your nose (though if you have Track IR I believe you can). There's a video here:

One my clan leader and I did to show how it works since I wasn't sure at the time.

[eggbeast 3673]

watch this from 5.45 to see me laser locking with our (modified) apache laser-hellfire

this uses a mod by Heinbloed to right click into the gunner seat when flying solo.

the hellfire can target lasertargets, and the gunner seat has a laserdesignator_mounted as well as hellfires and a m230.

works pretty well.

you can also add a LD onboard a 2 seater plane like the Su34 like this (requires a mod) for self targeting with a LD and LGBs

we also use a modified laser target in mykes GPS/INS system like this

with this system, which requires a hefty script/config mod, you can pull up a cockpit display and set your location in GPS, then target it with any ammo that has FRL_isGPSEnabled =1; in the config. it simulates GPS locking fire-and-forget weapons like the AGM154/AGM130 shown.

also, to answer your question about ranges, we play against really hard SAMs (damn you pookie) with engagement ranges of 5-10kms, so we might fly in at 3km altitude and target SAMs with a GBU39 SDB glide bomb from as far away as 7km, then fire at anything under 5km pretty much guarantees a kill, depending on your speed and direction at bomb release.

---------- Post added at 01:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

Do you know if there is a way to acquire the target without flying straight at it.

try flying higher, and make your approach straight at target from 5-10kms away. this gives your sensor/eye enough time to scan and acquire the target as you approach. it also allows you to see into depressions and streets better

your JTAC really really needs to keep the designated point still and in the open for you pick it up easily.

if you don't get it within 2km, break away and come around again.

Edited February 26, 2015 by eggbeast

[fiestamasta 13]

I appreciate all of your comments. This certainly has cleared things up a little bit.

I may have found the culprit to all of my problems with flying a jet and acquiring a laser designated target. Unfortunately it was also painfully obvious, will have to do some further testing tonight to see if it truly fixed my problem.

I had assumed that the key to acquiring a laser designated target (getting the white box) to appear was contingent upon my aircraft. Aircraft would have to be pointed in the right direction etc.. However I recently figured out that this in fact isn't true, it doesn't matter where my aircraft is pointing. What I need is for the target to be in the center of my screen wherever I am looking.

Since I use Track IR and actually center my screen at an offset towards the center of my aircraft's targeting reticle this was posing a problem in acquiring a lock. I had been trying to acquire the target by lining it up with my aircraft instruments rather then the center of my screen in Track IR freelook. The second I did a temporary disable of the Track IR I could acquire the target almost every time.

I know....painfully obvious

[eggbeast 3673]

good find. good to know for other TIR users too

[guy123 10]

@FiestaMasta:

I know your pain and this can be an issue with the RV engine and the way it processes IR targets as being (pretty much) normal targets. There is a really simple way to achieve what you want with very few lines of code that can be run via a repeatable radio Alpha trigger or something.

The two script commands you will be interested in are LaserTarget and Reveal.

If you aren't familiar with scripting, I'll briefly explain what they do and how you can implement them to a mission.

'laserTarget' returns the laser target of a vehicle/player as a variable while 'reveal' publishes information of one object to another. A real simple way to use this would be to do the following:

• Create a trigger, set it to repeatable and make the activation type 'Radio Alpha'
  
• 
  
• Save the mission (make sure you have some players etc. too)
  
• 
  
• In the mission file create a folder named 'scripts' and within the 'scripts' folder create a file named 'revealLDTarget.sqf'
  
• 
  
• Copy and paste the following into revealLDTarget.sqf:
  

  _FAC = _this select 0;
  _pilot = driver (_this select 1);
  
  _LDtgt = laserTarget _FAC;
  
  if !(isNull _LDtgt) then
  {
    _pilot reveal _LDtgt;
    hint "LD Target passed to pilot";
  }
  else
  {
    hint "No LD target detected";
  };
  
  

  
  

• In the execution field of the trigger write the following:
  

   [Fac,Plane] call compile preprocessFile "scripts\revealLDTarget.sqf"; 

  
  

• 
  
• Create a plane and forward air controller and put their names into the call parameters as above ^
  
• 
  
• designate a target and call the trigger!
  

I've not got ArmA3 with me at the moment as I'm in Prague, so I can't test the code but it should work without any issues.

I hope this helps you and your buds online!

Guy

Edited February 28, 2015 by Guy123

[eggbeast 3673]

that is elegant.

[Fac,Plane] - these are not yet defined in the script/trigger

[fiestamasta 13]

Wow, this is very interesting!

Thank you very much for the script! I will try it out next chance I get this weekend and give it a go.

I just want to double check before I get into it this weekend.

I see

FAC

_pilot

Plane

in the code for the .sqf and trigger activation

I'm assuming I have to name the player that will be by JTAC with the laser designator "FAC"

do I also need to name my Pilot player Pilot and also the specific plane "plane"

Also, who will be calling the trigger through "0" "0" radio. The pilot or the JTAC?

When this trigger is activated does this mean that the pilot will automatically get the laser target? (White Box)

Or does this mean I will be able to acquire the White Box from further away?

[guy123 10]

Ok, so the script will enable you to target the white box as the target will become 'known' to your player (as if you have seen it yourself).

You can actually name the units anything you like, but for simplicity you can name the forward air controller character as 'FAC' and the plane 'Plane' so that you don't need to change anything in the calling code.

The radio Alpha triggers are operated via 0-0-1 if I recall correctly. Radio calls should actually be available to any group leader IIRC, but if you link the trigger to a unit on the map, it will only be available to that unit (Once again, I can't test this and I'm working on old memories!).

There is no need to call the pilot 'pilot'. The script works out who the pilot is by querying the driver of the plane.

Notice that the variables within the script have an underscore '_' before them, this means that they are declared locally to the scope of the script (local variables). Whereas the names you give to the objects in the mission do not have the underscore before them, and therefore are globally declared (global variables).

In the OFP/VBS/ArmA engine, it is not possible to assign a local variable as the name to an object. So for example if you called the plane '_plane' in the editor it would throw an error (something like ' local variable declared in global space'). So don't forget to make sure that the names of the fac/plane are global names and not local ones like in the script. As long as the same names are passed into the script via the parameters field (the bit in the square brackets) it will work fine. To that end you could actually call the fac 'mrMan' and the plane 'flyingPoopMonster' and as long as you called the script like this: ' [mrMan,flyingPoopMonster] call compile preprocessFile "scripts\revealLDTarget.sqf";' It would still work fine.

Hope it works well, I've not been able to test at all so fingers crossed!

Let me know, happy gaming!

[eggbeast 3673]

beware, for MP use, or to use with more than one plane, say after your first one is destroyed and you respawn and want to go again, you may need a different approach.

it gets more involved, but you could spawn a trigger on the FAC guy, and have it detect all west air in a 10km radius and assign them to an array called nearplanes, and then run the reveal script on the whole array when the laser is active etc... a lot more involved but would work repeatedly.

[hcpookie 3770]

also, to answer your question about ranges, we play against really hard SAMs (damn you pookie) with engagement ranges of 5-10kms, so we might fly in at 3km altitude and target SAMs with a GBU39 SDB glide bomb from as far away as 7km, then fire at anything under 5km pretty much guarantees a kill, depending on your speed and direction at bomb release.

Wait until you put my pook_SAM SA10 into the missions... 20km *engagement* ranges! :)