Raptor and other fighter types

[acidcrash 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Oct. 03 2002,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1 on 1, with EQUALLY skilled pilots, a F22 would have no problem taking down a Typhoon BVR, or close up. Its sad to say, but it can outmaneouver a Typhoon from the data I've seen, and get into the furball with ease.

However......!

Thats what it is... a dedicated A-A aircraft. Oh ok, future models with be able to drop JDAMS, but thats a tacked on, half hearted capability. The Typhoon, can haul a massive amount of fire power to the target and nail it, and it that regard its more of a jack of all trades. Which makes sense when you realise how much the F-22 costs. The RAF couldn't possibly afford the F-22 (Although it was considered as a FOAS option), but we got a multirole A/C, unlike the F-22, which can do one role brilliantly, but is limited to that.

1 F-22 = 3 1/2 Typhoons.

A-A, I would like a F-22

For multirole missions (Which the RAF specialises in), I would prefer a Typhoon.<span id='postcolor'>

for the record, the F22 has been redesignated F/A-22 since it has A-G capabilities, this from a congress announcement last week

and to end this, shall we just say each aircraft has its weakness's and strengths?  

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Oct. 03 2002,02:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1 on 1, with EQUALLY skilled pilots, a F22 would have no problem taking down a Typhoon BVR, or close up. Its sad to say, but it can outmaneouver a Typhoon from the data I've seen, and get into the furball with ease.<span id='postcolor'>

For BVR two things are relevant: which missile you use and the radar cross section of the aircraft. The data on the second one are typically very classified, so it's hard to tell. The Eurofighter is a considerably smaller aircraft while the F22 has a construction and material design to minimize its radar cross section. As I said, without any data it's hard to tell. I would probably bet my money on the F22 since thy have put a shitload of money on reducing the radar cross section.

For close up "dogfights" the turn radius and speed are the main issues. Due to its smaller size the EF has a smaller turn radius, no question about it. The F22 has more powerful engines so speed is on its side. I would however put my money on the EF for close ups, especially since the F22 is almost exclusively intended for BVR engagements.

While I am pretty certain that the F22 is overall a "better" aircraft there is another thing to be considered: price. The F22 is hideously expensive. So the question is not if one F22 can shoot down one EF but if one F22 can shoot down the number of EF that you get for the price of one F22.

Bah, the EF is shite anyway. JAS 39 Gripen all the way

[acidcrash 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Oct. 03 2002,17:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bah, the EF is shite anyway. JAS 39 Gripen all the way <span id='postcolor'>

pfft even the rafeale is better than the Gripen

*waits for Ran to appear*

[ran 0]

the rafale looks cooler than most of the actual planes ... that's all i can say , i'm not a planes nut

[Guest]

The three planes are very similar in the design. All are third generation fly by wire, delta winged, small agile planes:

Rafale:

Jas:

EF:

[ran 0]

doesn't it look kick ass ?

[ran 0]

[nolips71 0]

right, the f22 is slower off the mark then the eurofighter but unfortunatly due 2 the offical secrets act i can only tell you that it can break the sound barrier in a 25 degree climb with no afterburners

[nolips71 0]

oh and another point. Who needs stealth when your at a range of 500m and you got a heat seaking missile up ur arse anser me that

[Sadico 1]

I remember reading somewere that the french are trying to develop a plasma generator to reduce the RCS of the Rafale (like the russian plasma cloud system). Do you know something else about this?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm in the process of making an F-22, but now i hear you guys don't want it i'm stopping.

<span id='postcolor'>

Hey, lot's of us want it! More important, if you want to make a F-22, make it!! It's your choice.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nolips71 @ Oct. 03 2002,23:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">oh and another point. Who needs stealth when your at a range of 500m and you got a heat seaking missile up ur arse anser me that<span id='postcolor'>

Once again, same could be said if the Eurofighter had a heat seeking missile up it's arse from an F-22. . Boy, I just looked at your profile and got a shock. From all these baseless posts I figured you'd be 12-15, but you're 17...are you for real?

[PHY_Hawkeye 0]

Nolips, why do you feel you need to prove that the Typhoon is better than the Raptor? Nine and a half times outta ten they'll be working together on the frontline anyway, mutually supporting each other. The only way they'd ever go up against each other is if the leaders of the western world went out for drinks and got into an argument over who was paying the bill  

[Badgerboy 0]

Nolips. You seem intent on causing havoc in this forum, and I for one will stand for it. As a member of the ATC, you have certain standards to adhere to, and making yourself and the service look foolish is not one of them.

Either cut out your trolling, or provide me with your ATC detachment, Full name and rank, and your service no.

As for you lack of aviation knowledge, you had better brush up if you want a commision. OASC takes a dim view of those sort of rants.

O/C Peters

UWAS

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Oct. 03 2002,23:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nolips71 @ Oct. 03 2002,23:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">oh and another point. Who needs stealth when your at a range of 500m and you got a heat seaking missile up ur arse anser me that<span id='postcolor'>

Once again, same could be said if the Eurofighter had a heat seeking missile up it's arse from an F-22. . Boy, I just looked at your profile and got a shock. From all these baseless posts I figured you'd be 12-15, but you're 17...are you for real? <span id='postcolor'>

Come on,It's like cheering for your hometeam.Euro=europe=his home team.If an america came up here saying america planes does this and that,People would say typical american,always think his shit is the best.

[acidcrash 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Acidcrash @ Oct. 03 2002,16:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">for the record, the F22 has been redesignated F/A-22 since it has A-G capabilities, this from a congress announcement last week<span id='postcolor'>

going back to what i said here, i dug out the announcement about the F22s redesignation:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">> F-22 redesignation reflects combat role

>

> by Staff Sgt. A.J. Bosker

> Air Force Print News

>

> WASHINGTON -- Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. John P. Jumper

announced a

> change in the designation of the F-22 Raptor at the 2002 Air Force

> Association National Convention here Sept. 17. The change is meant

to more

> accurately reflect the aircraft's multimission roles and

capabilities in

> contemporary strategic environments.

>

> "Secretary (of the Air Force Dr. James G.) Roche and I have decided

to adopt

> the name F/A-22, using the A (or attack) prefix to emphasize the

multiple

> roles and many dimensions of the Raptor," Jumper explained. "The

Raptor

> will feed on prey both from the sky and from the (ground)."

>

> Advances in technology and emerging Air Force doctrine make today's

Raptor

> very different from the fighter envisioned when the program was

first

> planned. Technological advancements in the fire control radar and

> integrated avionics, combined with the advent of smaller, very

precise

> munitions, create a far more powerful air-to-ground strike system,

Jumper

> said in a written statement.

>

> "Indeed, the Raptor's most significant contributions over the next

30 years

> will be (in) its attack role, particularly against the most lethal

next two

> generations of (enemy) surface-to-air missiles," Jumper said.

>

> The F/A-22 will enable the Air Force's other stealth assets to

operate 24

> hours a day and will "sanitize the fly corridors" for airlift

aircraft to

> resupply ground forces deployed in enemy territory, the general

said.

>

> Roche said in a written statement that the Raptor has been

transformed, in

> line with Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld's priorities, to a

> multimission, joint system that will change the way the United

States and

> its allies conduct war.

>

> "Therefore, a redesignation will increase the focus on this

transformation

> and allow people to better grasp this overall evolution," Roche

said.

>

> The F/A-22 has evolved into an air dominance aircraft capable

of "kicking

> down the door" in anti-access situations, and the redesignation

simply

> better reflects the inherent air-to-ground and air-to-air

capabilities of

> the Raptor, Roche said.

>

> "Transformation is changing our thinking, but not necessarily

throwing

> everything old away," Jumper said. "It's building on what we have

but using

> it in very new ways."

>

> The F/A-22 is a prime example of the Air Force's approach to

transforming by

> combining air dominance, precision attack, networked intelligence,

> surveillance and reconnaissance, and joint close air support into an

> unprecedented single platform, he said.

>

> "Its sensors will provide valuable information regarding precise

target

> location and characteristics into a common network for all to use --

both

> air, land and sea," Jumper said. "In short, it will be its own

> intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance platform."

>

> The F/A-22 will be the only system able to reliably engage cruise

missiles

> and will be delivered to replace fighters that have been in active

service

> longer than any fighter the Air Force has ever had in its

inventory, Jumper

> said. He added that the F/A-22 will be able to deploy with a

fraction of

> the logistics footprint and manpower required to sustain the

service's

> current 25-year old platforms.

>

> "(Secretary Roche and I) believe that the combination of these

capabilities

> is transformational and that this transformational weapon should be

called

> the F/A-22," Jumper said.

<span id='postcolor'>

might be veerring a little off the topic, but its related

[nolips71 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Oct. 04 2002,05:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nolips. You seem intent on causing havoc in this forum, and I for one will stand for it. As a member of the ATC, you have certain standards to adhere to, and making yourself and the service look foolish is not one of them.

Either cut out your trolling, or provide me with your ATC detachment, Full name and rank, and your service no.

As for you lack of aviation knowledge, you had better brush up if you want a commision. OASC takes a dim view of those sort of rants.

O/C Peters

UWAS<span id='postcolor'>

umm no im not gonna tell you that im not saying the ff2 will face each other, between them the EF and the f22 would clear the ground and sky

and where is the proof of the f22 being so good? the ef has been seen by many 2 be good

[KTottE 0]

Jeez nolips, you never quit do you?

edit

I'm too tired for this

[Major Fubar 0]

I thought the title said 'flaming not welcome"?

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nolips71 @ Oct. 04 2002,15:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and where is the proof of the f22 being so good?<span id='postcolor'>

nolips, have you been reading this thread at all? No one here is saying the F-22 is better than the Eurofighter. You're the one who keeps insisting the Eurofighter is better without any solid proof to back it up. You've even contradicted yourself in doing this. IE when you stated it would be easy for the Eurofighter to gun down an F-22, and it was pointed out to you that from the data  which is available, the F-22 seems more maneuverable. Then you switched to "maneuverability isn't everything".

[ralphwiggum 6]

and this thread is going nowhere.

[ralphwiggum 6]

opening.

nolips71, you were warned and you decided to go against it. 48hr post restriction.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Oct. 03 2002,19:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">opening.

nolips71, you were warned and you decided to go against it. 48hr post restriction.<span id='postcolor'>

Thank you Ralp, i just wanted to send you a PM but i noticed it wasn't necessary anymore

[Tovarish 0]

BTW any of you heard of this bird before?

It's the Chinese J-10, in development since 1984 with cooperation with the Israeli engineers who were part of the Lavi project until Tianamen Square. A prototype crashed about 10 years ago and the program was suspended til 1999, but test flights are now continuing. Apparently it uses the same engine as the Su-27. It might be in service in 2005.

more info:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/j-10.htm

[Badgerboy 0]

The J-10 is a nice looking bird, and it shows that the homegrown Chinese air industry is getting its act together.

I saw a great article about its development in AFM. I'll try to dig it out and scan it in at some point.

[PHY_Hawkeye 0]

It does look remarkably like the Typhoon. Can't say I've ever heard of it before. Looks like it has a tail setup like that of the F/A-18, the bit of the tail showing looks like it's canted rather than straight back.