Weapon Resting & Deployment Feedback

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

What I think, is that they shouldn't give bipods more sway and such. They should be them more stable. Of I were using bipods, I would essentially be able to steady my aim to a complete stand still. However, until I fire a shot, that's when I loose the steadiness. This means that it make it effective for one shot one kill snipers/marksman, but I would mean sustained fire from way, an MG would be more challenging. However again though, as we cannot feel and manipulate things in game from real life, I honestly think Bipods are fine how they work now. Holding down the trigger causes a dread cone, that become much bigger over distance. This mean holding the trigger is only used for what the MMG was added for in the first place. Support fire. And given the rounds can go through standard light walls, it's a bonus if you actually hit something.

[OMAC 254]

After some more time put in playing on dev branch I stand by this argument

In life you have:

visual cue (gun contact with surface),

audio cue,

tactile sense (weight off)

Game:

Aim stabilizes after 3 seconds

crosshair change

There are couple of bad things about no notifications:

System is passive (no input required) so can be easily missed.(especially new players or uneducated)

Some people play without crosshairs.Lack of feedback.

Notification types:

Audio cue

Visual notification:

-icon, camera shake (nudge), vignette (on the borders of screen)

Since icons tend to clutter screen I would decide for nudge similar to

deployment at bipods.Look here to see in practice:

Twitch stream time mark: 37:24

Along with option to disabling it in option for people who don't need it.(I'm looking at you Pettka)

Technical implementation is not the biggest problem, considering that BI designers are discussing

this internally.

I agree with all this, especially with that emphasized in red and blue above. These are key (red one more so).

I think the time to set up and remove deployment is about right - a second or two, and removing deployment typically takes a little longer than to set up, as there can be stance changes when you are deployed on low objects such as some rocks. And sometimes it is very difficult, even impossible, to deploy on some uneven surfaces such as boulders (

).

It's not really a special state like deployment but rewards you for not run and gunning.

This is the problem. Resting most definitely IS a special state. IRL you always know your weapon is rested. There should be an indicator other than crosshair change, and there should be an brief (~0.5 sec) inertia penalty when un-resting.

Plus also you can see why BIS didn't add a sound or visual clue as to resting state. It changes so frequently it would bug the fuck out of you. It did to me when I modded it in last night.

I will definitely try this eventhandler resting test. Excellent idea! If resting is happening all the time, it is true that resting indicators could be problematic. IRL resting would NOT occur all the time, only as a conscious choice, as it hinders snap aiming and fast movement just as deployment does, but to a much lesser degree. I think that there should be a ~2 second delay from when your weapon is positioned over or against a restable object before an indicator appears and resting benefits kick in. Then, having an indicator would be less distracting.

Edit: just tried eventhandler technique for indicating when resting is active. As I wrote several posts ago, resting is basically useless. It provides only the most minor weapon stabilization compared to when not resting. Useless in medium to long range combat, and almost useless at shorter ranges. Especially with new recoil, shooting without deployment is a major drag (read: not fun*) unless you are in CQB or other very desperate situation with lots of enemy close to you. But as long as deployment works more or less as is, with possible increased ease of deployment on boulders, the current state of resting is ok, I guess, as it is apparently meant to provide only a (very) minor bonus for those who move tactically between cover/resting spots over just run and gun, as others have written.

* especially for Arma novices.

Edited March 25, 2015 by OMAC

[CaptainObvious 95]

In my opinion I think it's fine as is. Resting provides nowhere near the stability that deployment does and in actual combat conditions it's much harder to rely on resting alone to maintain semi-accurate fire. In a controlled environment testing the difference might seem negligable but from my testing in fire fights I find the resting to be inferior.

Today I had a few hours of testing in a real game, I'd still say recoil could be a little stronger when resting, the "way too stable" was indeed a bit of an overstatement.

[twisted 127]

One thing I notice is that the actual horizontal and vertical range of movement I get when deployed varies quiet a bit but often I cannot tell why. The ground looks the same most of the time. Does the bipods pivot change depending on bumpy ground etc?

[Brisse 78]

twisted: I think it's based on two things. Animation limits, and collision detection. It's likely that bumpy ground would affect collision detection.

[twisted 127]

twisted: I think it's based on two things. Animation limits, and collision detection. It's likely that bumpy ground would affect collision detection.

Makes sense. Be good to get confirm. It just confuses me sometimes as the bumpy ground shouldn't affect me bipods actual range of movement but can see why it's easier for bis to do it that way. Just feel strange to have those different limits despite the ground seeming mostly the same.

[danil-ch 165]

Such flexibility :D

[khugan 24]

I think they make an ointment for that.

[killzone_kid 1326]

For some reason player will not rest in peace until he folded his bipod

1. deploy

2. execute player setDamage 1

3. watch player starting to fold bipod then die

[stormhawkv 19]

The bipod of the Zafir 7,62mm still doesn't touch the ground when deployed.

[roshnak 41]

Fixed: Cursor movement while deployed blocks the exit transition

I was happy to read about this fix, and then kind of disappointed with the implementation, since the game just takes control of the camera away from the player while the weapon is undeploying now. Why does the camera have to return to center to undeploy the weapon? It seems weird, especially since you can enter deployment at different angles.

[roberthammer 582]

Also you can't hold the breath while deployed , it is annoying while sniping with a bipod and it is kinda odd

Edited March 26, 2015 by RobertHammer

[R3vo 2652]

Found two bugs with weapon deployment.

You can't rest your weapon on the edge in the first picture.

The other two pictures show that weapon deployment triggers the wrong stance.

Picture 1

Picture 2

[twisted 127]

am playing the marksman showcase and i am finding that deploying bpiods often is an excercise in frustration. which surprises me. but here is why.

Bipod deploys at wierd angles on the ground. often pointing downwards when i want it to point right ahead. Allow raising our body up or down a bit to get the bipod to point where it should. if this is alreayd possible, then i do not know how to do it.

whereas my bipod at the range raises my weapon a bit more than i could unsupported in arma3 it drops my POV down.

the range of movement for bipods changes depending on whether you are zoomed in or not. again this makes it difficult to judge just what the range of movement should be. it shouldnt be inconsistent.

I cannot reliably deploy on rocks that look like i should be able to. even if just on the edge of the rocks which is flat should work. My mind knows i should be able to but it just aint happening in game. this is a big prob in my eyes. small walls are also problematic.

When i deploy sometimes my units body is suddenly moved to a strange posture that is hard to get up from. especially bad on low walls.

Reloading actually undeploys the rifle. it shouldnt.

and a more cosmetic thing which i hope gets looked at is the animation of the bipod deploying - there are these sweet ass reloading animations and then we have the auto bipod depoy by mind control. having the unit actually hand deploy the bipod would add to the timning of the deployment (no insta accuracy) and just keep the quality that BIS has got going in these relaods.

I am very happy to have bipods in the game. When they work (which is really often) they are game changers. But these are things I believe should be looked at in its current state.

Edited March 27, 2015 by twisted

[R3vo 2652]

Reloading actually undeploys the rifle. it shouldnt.

Yes, I agree on that.

When i deploy sometimes my units body is suddenly moved to a strange posture that is hard to get up from. especially bad on low walls.

This definitely needs some polishing, I posted 2 pictures above, which show the issue. Lower stances get selected even if the object's height would for example require the player only to crouch.

and a more cosmetic thing which i hope gets looked at is the animation of the bipod deploying - there are these sweet ass reloading animations and then we have the auto bipod depoy by mind control. having the unit actually hand deploy the bipod would add to the timning of the deployment (no insta accuracy) and just keep the quality that BIS has got going in these relaods.

I can agree with you, but I can also see why they didn't go with an animation for bipod deployment. It's simple. Every weapon has a different bipod position and every weapon has also a different lenght, hence, they can't created an animation which looks nice for all weapons, especially not for community created content.

[Electricleash 133]

I believe were still waiting for the finalized animations for the deployed states, (feet/bum touching the ground etc. ). The thing that's bugging out is when holding down a movement key while undeploying seems to delay the animations indefinitely until you release the movement key.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I believe were still waiting for the finalized animations for the deployed states, (feet/bum touching the ground etc. ). The thing that's bugging out is when holding down a movement key while undeploying seems to delay the animations indefinitely until you release the movement key.

Yup. And that last bit is actually annoying. It's also funny though, as a lot of kills on Dev yesterday consisted of me shooting at guys attempting to wiggle their way out of deployment as I purposely miss them to see how long they try fighting their way out of it. But yeah, that bug needs a fix.

[enex 11]

Updated Character clips/spaz/dies when deploys weapon Feedback ticket

Edited March 27, 2015 by enex

[razor6014 35]

In virtual arsenal deploying on the smallest square results in wrong stance ... standing instead of sitting down

[Jackal326 1158]

In virtual arsenal deploying on the smallest square results in wrong stance ... standing instead of sitting down

I really hope those stances are going to become more fluid and natural, because its all fun and games until you see a guy floating 2 feet in the air because he's kneeling when deployed on a wall that is 2 inches too short for the standing animation.

[razor6014 35]

I really hope those stances are going to become more fluid and natural, because its all fun and games until you see a guy floating 2 feet in the air because he's kneeling when deployed on a wall that is 2 inches too short for the standing animation.

Dont worry worst case scenario they are gonna crunch it on the night of 7.4. and fix everything.I do wonder how the algorithm works for cuz the simplest way i can think of is a

vector ruler with discreet intervals.

[evromalarkey 150]

Don't ever try to go to zeus when deploying a weapon, you will never get out of that animation :D Overall it's good though, but needs some tweaking. I would really want to see some hand animation for the bipod.

Also would be good to be able switch the bipod state also without the deployment action. :)

[Jackal326 1158]

Don't ever try to go to zeus when deploying a weapon, you will never get out of that animation :D Overall it's good though, but needs some tweaking. I would really want to see some hand animation for the bipod.

Also would be good to be able switch the bipod state also without the deployment action. :)

To be honest I don't miss the bipod hand animations. They'd be weird as many bipods are in different places, be they fixed bipods on the weapons, or the attachments. I think the system as it stands is fine (apart from the bendy-leg animations that are FUBAR, and the other issues already raised of course).

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Don't ever try to go to zeus when deploying a weapon, you will never get out of that animation

Which still needs a fix.

[bad benson 1733]

To be honest I don't miss the bipod hand animations. They'd be weird as many bipods are in different places, be they fixed bipods on the weapons, or the attachments. I think the system as it stands is fine (apart from the bendy-leg animations that are FUBAR, and the other issues already raised of course).

that's a very strange argument. the average area bipods are located in isn't that big at all. the only thing that would be needed is a vague downwards wave kind of motion. anything is better than the current robotic animation. i mean a specific gesture would be best but knowing BI i don't see that happening. although it shouldn't be to hard to achieve from a technical standpoint actually. it's just like the reload gestures for weapons. it'S extra work though. but i think it's worrth it. and considering the number of bipods it's not even THAT much work.