Weapon Resting & Deployment Feedback

[twisted 127]

When in LAN playing with someone who does not have the dlc, bipods do not show up for either of us. but when they are not playing then they show up no probelm in arsenal.

[R3vo 2652]

Confirmed. Loading an existing mission and trying to use bipods does not work.

Yes confirmed, in addition, my character starts sliding if you were deployed while saving. However, I am not sure if that is always the case.

Question for the Devs: What key do you plan to use for deploying? I struggel to find a proper keybind for it.

[supercereal4 29]

Question for the Devs: What key do you plan to use for deploying? I struggel to find a proper keybind for it.

I like to use ctrl+C. works fine for me.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I use the Windows Key. The bind must be close to my most common controls for it to feel natural, it's close by, and easy to do when i need to in a short time.

[Jackal326 1158]

I use the Windows Key. The bind must be close to my most common controls for it to feel natural, it's close by, and easy to do when i need to in a short time.

I use SHIFT+SPACE, purely as a hang-over from ACE2/AGM/CSE :P Its the key-combo I've been used to for the past 4 years or more.

I think C is a good default key, though have noticed (with it still being defined as 'Combat Pace Toggle', or whatever the control is called), that it does switch me to Tactical Pace when I come out of the deployment and wish to move on (or at least it did originally, as stated I've rebound weapon deployment).

[dazhbog 10]

Yes confirmed, in addition, my character starts sliding if you were deployed while saving. However, I am not sure if that is always the case.

We're currently working on a fix for the load/save problem.

Question for the Devs: What key do you plan to use for deploying? I struggel to find a proper keybind for it.

The default keybinding is 'C' if I'm not mistaken but I'm not sure if it's true for all the presets.

[Electricleash 133]

I have it bound to CTRL+C which works nicely.

Fixed: Entering Weapon Deployment changes camera direction

Good stuff, still get the camera jerk when exiting deployment though (WIP?)

[rübe 127]

one thing i find a little strange is that when prone bipods should usually lift your weapon higher than you could otherwise unsupported. But in the current implementation they actually always seem to actaully drop your point of view back into the grass.

Agreed. I can understand that it's not the best idea to deploy your bipod looking down a steep slope. But vertical movement while deployed might be a tad bit too hard/restricted. You can barely raise your view/weapon if deployed on even ground. So maybe the "pivot point"(?) is set a bit too low?

Well, I can't really tell how they're supposed to work, yet I expected maybe some more (rotational, mostly vertical) freedom, while deployed?

Any other impressions?

[razor6014 35]

The sudden need for shooting sticks apears ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/CSA-2006-10-17-093634.jpg (1237 kB)

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

The bug where you are prone and reload, causing you to be stuck for ever, still persists, even in multiplyer sessions. VERY Game Breaking!

Also, i'd like to suggest that holding breath with Bipods get rid of the slight sway that is preset, ue to breathing in and out.

[enex 11]

The bug where you are prone and reload, causing you to be stuck for ever, still persists, even in multiplyer sessions. VERY Game Breaking!

Also, i'd like to suggest that holding breath with Bipods get rid of the slight sway that is preset, ue to breathing in and out.

How can I reproduce that?Is it random?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

How can I reproduce that?Is it random?

I don't know, on Dev branch right now. Anytime i am prone and reload, my ammo counter turns red, and stays this way permanently. Not only that, but it doesn't play an actual reload animation, and causes you to be stuck there until death, restart, or aborting the mission. Try picking an weapon, make sure it has a bipod on it, but don't use the bipod, just go prone and reload.

[enex 11]

I don't know, on Dev branch right now. Anytime i am prone and reload, my ammo counter turns red, and stays this way permanently. Not only that, but it doesn't play an actual reload animation, and causes you to be stuck there until death, restart, or aborting the mission. Try picking an weapon, make sure it has a bipod on it, but don't use the bipod, just go prone and reload.

Altis, CSAT sharp shooter, I go prone and reload and it works as it should.Tried for 10 min, have worked as intended.

[roberthammer 582]

I hope those Resting&Deployment values will be tweaked to more realistic before the official DLC release

[CaptainObvious 95]

I also think resting is way too stable now that we have deployment.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

I also think resting is way too stable now that we have deployment.

In my opinion I think it's fine as is. Resting provides nowhere near the stability that deployment does and in actual combat conditions it's much harder to rely on resting alone to maintain semi-accurate fire. In a controlled environment testing the difference might seem negligable but from my testing in fire fights I find the resting to be inferior.

[OMAC 254]

In my opinion I think it's fine as is. Resting provides nowhere near the stability that deployment does and in actual combat conditions it's much harder to rely on resting alone to maintain semi-accurate fire. In a controlled environment testing the difference might seem negligable but from my testing in fire fights I find the resting to be inferior.

I basically agree. I see resting as almost useless now, and I can barely even tell it's there without some sort of visual and/or audio indicator. It's nowhere near stable enough to depend on for accurate shooting in combat; deployment will be used 95% of the time unless in a VERY time-sensitive situation. If anything I would make resting even more stable (and add indicator of some kind), or just leave as is.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I basically agree. I see resting as almost useless now, and I can barely even tell it's there without some sort of visual and/or audio indicator. It's nowhere near stable enough to depend on for accurate shooting in combat; deployment will be used 95% of the time unless in a VERY time-sensitive situation. If anything I would make resting even more stable (and add indicator of some kind), or just leave as is.

Well from what i've experienced from it during heavy multiplayer sessions, is that resting is great, even when you have no idea it's working or not. The thing is, it's as simple as using cover the way it should be done, and aiming closely around it, is enough to gain that resting benefit. As for Deployment, it's ok, but not good to do all the time, mainly due to the fact that when your getting shot at, and you try moving and aiming, you'll essentially be TRAPPED in Deploy mode until you just let go of your controls and let it aim center, and release the Deployment. Resting is good. Deployment is, ok. But, i guess things will be firmly polished when it's released.

---------- Post added at 02:24 ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 ----------

Altis, CSAT sharp shooter, I go prone and reload and it works as it should.Tried for 10 min, have worked as intended.

Strange, it's completely random. The best places to reproduce it is in the Arsenal. Go in Arsenal, pick a load-out, and spawn in. Then shoot things and reload. Now, go prone, and shoot things, and reload. That should trigger the bug, as far as i know.

[-Coulum- 35]

I see resting as almost useless now, and I can barely even tell it's there without some sort of visual and/or audio indicator. It's nowhere near stable enough to depend on for accurate shooting in combat; deployment will be used 95% of the time unless in a VERY time-sensitive situation. If anything I would make resting even more stable (and add indicator of some kind), or just leave as is.

IMO deployment should take longer to set up (especially for bipods) and should have some sort of inertia or rotational speed limt to preventing quicker snap shooting. That would make resting a valuable option while making the mecahnics more realistic.

In reality deployment helps stabilize your weapon, for sure... but it makes rapidly changing aim harder/slower. This is not the case in game. There is little penalty to being deployed when there should be. In reality if you want to shift your aim 45 degrees while deployed with a bipod on a sandbag wall, you literally have to sidestep or at the very least lean an uncomfortable amount to do so. You are not going to have steady aim while you make that movement and it is going to take longer than simply rotating your arms/upper body (as you would unrested/deployed). In addition it will take a moment to regain the steadiness provided by the bipod. None of this is represented ingame. Just the sway/recoil bonus. You deploy your bipod and you have a huge range of motion with minimal inertia or limitation to how quickly you can turn. Plus you can set up your bipod very quickly, even while aiming down the sights, while keeping this steady aim the whole time - yeah right. Try deploying a bipod while looking down a magnified optic. Your aim is going to be bouncing all around.

Obviously I believe that, although the positives of bipods are represented in game very well (accuracy and recoil), the disadvantages (less manoeuvrability, slower manoeuvrability and set-up time) are pretty lacking. It makes bipods/deployment very overpowered, and makes resting a seemingly useless thing. There is no reason not to deply you bipod if you have cover nearby.

Make bipods have an inertia penalty, take longer to setup, and take you out of "aim down the sights" while setting up and now you have a realistic reason for choosing not to deploy and taking advantage of weapon resting. You also have more realistic limitation to deployment itself. My opinion. Interested to know if you guys can relate. Deployment is awesome. But I think it comes with lot of realistic pros, while ignoring many realistic cons.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I've noticed while deploying on some surfaces, none in particular, my aim becomes worse than if i were to stand up and just aim steadily.

[chortles 263]

Make bipods have an inertia penalty

According to the latest weapon config guidelines documentation, this is already the case for attachable bipods, while presumably the weapons with integral bipods already or will have theirs already accounted for. (A weapon with built-in bipod just needs hasBipod = true; and the name of the relevant memory point in its config, while the attachable bipod's config has an inertia value and its ItemInfo subclass has a mass value).

[roberthammer 582]

I think Resting works fine just maybe a little bit tweak it to make less effective (more recoil)

also Deployment with bipod and without bipod are the same , only difference with no bipod you get more inertia when turning left and right

so the deployment without bipod should be less effective than with bipod - more sway , same recoil as resting , less stability and the inertia (which already got it)

With bipod you should get zero sway , less inertia but with slightly reduced recoil - but not too much like a heavy tripod with almost no recoil

Edited March 25, 2015 by RobertHammer

[das attorney 857]

resting is great, even when you have no idea it's working or not. The thing is, it's as simple as using cover the way it should be done, and aiming closely around it, is enough to gain that resting benefit.

That's kind of it really.

It's just a bonus to your aiming for trying to use cover appropriately. It's not really a special state like deployment but rewards you for not run and gunning.

To see exactly when it applies, put this in your players init-line

this addEventHandler ["WeaponRested", {hintSilent format ["Weapon is rested: %1", _this select 1]}]

You get some interesting results.

Plus also you can see why BIS didn't add a sound or visual clue as to resting state. It changes so frequently it would bug the fuck out of you. It did to me when I modded it in last night.

[-Coulum- 35]

According to the latest weapon config guidelines documentation, this is already the case for attachable bipods, while presumably the weapons with integral bipods already or will have theirs already accounted for. (A weapon with built-in bipod just needs hasBipod = true; and the name of the relevant memory point in its config, while the attachable bipod's config has an inertia value and its ItemInfo subclass has a mass value).

No I mean when you are actually deployed, you should have more inertia than when just rested or shooting normally. To me inertia represents how quickly/easily you can change your aim. It is easier to change your aim by simply rotating your upper body then it is shuffling around a pivot point. So deployment should have even more inertia than regular offhand aiming.

so the deployment without bipod should be less effective than with bipod - more sway , same recoil as resting , less stability

Yes I totally agree.

[enex 11]

After some more time put in playing on dev branch I stand by this argument

In life you have:

visual cue (gun contact with surface),

audio cue,

tactile sense (weight off)

Game:

Aim stabilizes after 3 seconds

crosshair change

There are couple of bad things about no notifications:

System is passive (no input required) so can be easily missed.(especially new players or uneducated)

Some people play without crosshairs.Lack of feedback.

Notification types:

Audio cue

Visual notification:

-icon, camera shake (nudge), vignette (on the borders of screen)

Since icons tend to clutter screen I would decide for nudge similar to

deployment at bipods.Look here to see in practice:

Twitch stream time mark: 37:24

Along with option to disabling it in option for people who don't need it.(I'm looking at you Pettka)

Technical implementation is not the biggest problem, considering that BI designers are discussing

this internally.