Jump to content
solzenicyn

Recoil Overhaul Feedback

Recommended Posts

Yeah i know, as for aiming, i aim more in this game then i do in real life ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand that. However, remember that this is just a game. Granted it is a fairly realistic game (depending upon how you play it, who you play it with and the missions/addons used etc), but realism does not necessarily translate into fun game play. As I outlined in my previous reply, I think ArmA has a reasonable balance between the two, without taking the skill out of aiming without making it too easy.

IMO by comparing the game with airsoft which I practice every weekend, I think its lacking making the connection with the weapon and the player, using the shooting button as if it was the trigger (pressing the button / squeze the trigger - shooting - releasing the button / reseting the trigger). In this case the recoil would make such more sense.

Why the sniper racks the bolt when the bullet is nearing hitting the target and ruins the sight where was the impact zone, do not make any sense...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the only mechecanic i can think of is a timer between you clicking the button and the shot going off

with the ability to change the timer from 0 to 4 seconds and with penalties,this is not intuitive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know how or if the weight of a weapon is related to its recoil? Is there a direct, inverse relationship between the two?

I'm not sure how bipods affect a weapon passively, but I was thinking that just having it on a weapon should have some inherent effects. A bipod should add to overall mass and weapon inertia, but also reduce recoil slightly (when undeployed), since it adds more weight to the barrel, and thus counters recoil effects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone know how or if the weight of a weapon is related to its recoil? Is there a direct, inverse relationship between the two?

I'm not sure how bipods affect a weapon passively, but I was thinking that just having it on a weapon should have some inherent effects. A bipod should add to overall mass and weapon inertia, but also reduce recoil slightly (when undeployed), since it adds more weight to the barrel, and thus counters recoil effects.

The formula is Alpha = M / I (a=F/m when you ignore the affect of radius )

Alpha is your result acceleration of the weapon

M is the force you or recoil put into the weapon

I is the inertia of the weapon based on its shape and mass

the more inert the weapon its easier to hold the weapon on the target and the harder it is to move the weapon either from target to target or by recoil

Edited by Razor6014

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sub-machine guns now kicks like a zefir ..., or a mule.

The lack of control makes them unusable --may as well use a lmg.

Vermin & the pdw2000 were my favorite weapons ...., now i just cry like a little girl, at the range, firing a full-auto Uzi.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/02/girl-who-accidentally-shot-her-instructor-with-an-uzi-said-the-gun-was-too-much-for-her/

Edited by Ratszo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an old ticket on the tracker suggesting trigger reset only when the mouse button is released. In Infiltration UT we had a mechanic with bolt action rifles where the bolt would only be racked after you released the mouse button so you could maintain your sight picture and follow through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have an old ticket on the tracker suggesting trigger reset only when the mouse button is released. In Infiltration UT we had a mechanic with bolt action rifles where the bolt would only be racked after you released the mouse button so you could maintain your sight picture and follow through.

i would VERY much like this. was hoping to see it in the marksman mod, but the lack of bolt actions made it un-needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair question indeed. First main difference you may clearly observe is that the new recoil is defined as class and not as a field of values as it was before. Also, it is now defined in the weapon's class and not in the fire mode, unlike the old recoil.

I tried to define new recoil to my rifle but it looks like it is still using old one.

I notice Zafir machinegun has defined new recoil in weapon class, but in fire modes class is still old recoil (array). So my question is what recoil is machinegun using?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If both are defined then new recoil is prioritized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Edit 2015-May-4th: muzzleInner removed (not needed.

i nearly missed that. wonder what the original plan was going to be for it (just wondering as its gone now)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all,

I've played a bit of Arma 3 in the past, and I can't say I was terribly happy with how the recoil worked. Specifically, when a series of single-fire shots are made in rapid succession, or when a weapon is fired in-full auto, the weapon rises, keeps rising, and then stays pointed at the part it rose to.

So my question is, how has the recoil been changed, and how does it work now? Do weapons come back down once you've stopped firing?

I'm really looking forward to playing Arma 3 on the new PC I'm building, but it'll suck to play if weapons still act like they're not affected by gravity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey all,

I've played a bit of Arma 3 in the past, and I can't say I was terribly happy with how the recoil worked. Specifically, when a series of single-fire shots are made in rapid succession, or when a weapon is fired in-full auto, the weapon rises, keeps rising, and then stays pointed at the part it rose to.

So my question is, how has the recoil been changed, and how does it work now? Do weapons come back down once you've stopped firing?

I'm really looking forward to playing Arma 3 on the new PC I'm building, but it'll suck to play if weapons still act like they're not affected by gravity.

Gravity has no effect on the behavior of recoil. The changes to recoil are largely in the cosmetic handling of what the camera does when the weapon is fired which in turn has allowed some refactoring of the severity of recoil for weapons (Remember how the MX would be a chore to keep on target during a string of fire? No longer the case.).

Despite the fact you still need to manually drive the muzzle down, the way that shooting in ArmA 3 feels now is leaps and bounds better than the way it was. The revision of recoil in addition to resting and deployment also means that fighting while your character is moderately fatigued is now a pretty reasonable proposition.

It may not have gravity but I think if you give it a try you'd find that it's still quite a pleasurable execution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, we'll see. Although it probably won't be as much of an issue due to the reduction of recoil thanks to the resting system, it still bugs me that the weapons behave like this.

If I wasn't clear before, what I meant by weapons being affected by gravity is the fact that, once the upward force from the recoil has stopped, the gun should come back down due to the force of gravity. For example, just look at how guns behave in Battlefield 4. You start firing, they rise for a bit, stop rising, and will maintain their position for as long as you keep the trigger held down (provided you aren't fighting the recoil). Put simply, there is a maximum amount the gun can rise when fired in full-auto. When you stop firing, the gun will return to it's original position. So, instead of having to pull the mouse down further and further the longer you fire, you only have to pull down a short distance, then you need only worry about aiming at your targets and countering horizontal movement.

Anyway, back to Arma. The guns are basically just shunted up when fired, rather than jumping up with recoil, then falling due to gravity. It's like the gun is weirdly pulling the shooter's arms upward, rather than bucking in their grip. It's irritating because, aside from the fact that it's unrealistic, you either have to have a mouse mat as long as a landing strip or you're stuck lifting up your mouse, moving it, and then putting it back down over and over again.

Well, that's my take on it, at least. Hopefully the changes they've made will mask it a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bf4 is fun but it's geared toward full auto spamming with everyone running around using lmgs and assault rifles. Not a good example of the kind of play is want to see in arma3. The movement system however feels awesome but is off topic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, take gravity into account and make us constantly move our mouse upwards to fight it, now THAT'S realism, and a shitton of fun too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so much 'gravity', it's muscle memory.

Say, place a rifle cribbed on sand bags ..., it aint going back where it was, once fired.

Or say firing an old 10gauge --once fired, you're holding up high to the aim point, like 45 degrees.

So now i'm using much higher dpi on the y-axis to counter the recoil in full-auto.., gotta call that muscle memory.

Tho the smg's are a mess --need way too high a dpi to counter that kick-- recoil's worse than the 7.62 rounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tho the smg's are a mess --need way too high a dpi to counter that kick-- recoil's worse than the 7.62 rounds.

It's not just about the cartridge. The SMG's are generally small and flimsy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's not just about the cartridge. The SMG's are generally small and flimsy.

A trained soldier will compensate thru muscle memory --as is, it's like we never fired a gun before.

That is how smgs are used, in tight places, short range, cqc. Plenty of vids showing good control with full-stock smgs. Not like what we got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A trained soldier will compensate thru muscle memory --as is, it's like we never fired a gun before.

Is there some reason that you can't do that?

Your avatar in game is not a trained soldier, your avatar is you, and whenever possible your abilities in the game should be tied to your skill, not your avatar's skill.

Edit: It seems like if you think players should have to manually compensate for recoil, then you would think that guns in-game should have an amount of recoil roughly in line with how difficult they should be to control. Your first post made it seem like you agreed with this, but then you say that SMGs shouldn't be that way because the character you're playing in game should be compensating for recoil instead of you?

Edited by roshnak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there some reason that you can't do that?

Indeed, with higher mouse dpi, 5.65mm & 6.5mm rifles are controlable in full-auto.

Have you tried the vermin? The muzzle climb goes beyond plausable dpi.

I don't see anyone using the vermin as is. The stinger 9mm is ok, the pdw not as good.

Vermin & pdw were my go-to guns, but now the heavier calibers are easier to shoot.

What advantage in using a smg now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Seems plenty controllable to me. I have to move my mouse just under 12 inches to rotate 360 degrees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there some reason that you can't do that?

Your avatar in game is not a trained soldier, your avatar is you, and whenever possible your abilities in the game should be tied to your skill, not your avatar's skill.

Great, so we're effectively supposed to play Arma like it's Counter Strike or something? Look, I'm all for new ways to make games more immersive and bring them into the game. But achieving that with some arbitrary mechanic like this that is awkward and unrealistic to boot is absolute rubbish.

Maybe learning to pull down your weapon manually after each shot is easy if you've played Counter Strike for years, but to most people it will be extremely unintuitive. Plus, your player skill equals avatar skill argument is total bollocks. Games are intuitive because they map complex actions to button presses. By doing this, games can eliminate the need to think about the controller or keyboard as much as possible.

The aim should be to make your avatar handle all physical aspects of the actions you perform in the game. They're basically humans with wireless receivers instead of brains. They handle stuff like bringing the gun back down once fired through muscle memory, they reload, they throw the frags. It's the players' job to do the thinking for these avatars. Which targets to shoot, which stance to take, which fire mode to use, etc.

I don't know why recoil works like this, seeing as it works almost perfectly in the Arma: Cold War Assault (AKA Operation Flashpoint). Guns could be fired accurately when standing if you paced yourself and used semi-auto. Trying to hit something with full-auto is near impossible, but you can at least remain pointed in the right direction, and not at the sky. Full-auto becomes feasible when crouched and even accurate when prone (of course, it remains a poor tactical choice due to the wasted ammunition from missed shots).

Then there's Arma 3. Semi-auto is a joke, as you waste too much time trying to find your target again once your weapon has shunted you off course by about ten feet. You wonder why they even bothered implementing full-auto, as it leaves you pointed at the sky. The recoil reduction from changing stance is negligible and the new mounting system seems to make no difference at all.

The point of this (now ridiculously long) rant is that there's enough going on in Arma without players having to worry about fighting their own guns to keep them on target. Should Arma be a game about mastering one's mouse or mastering the art of warfare?

One last note, I'm not alone on this. Google these three words, "arma 3 recoil".

Every result is people asking Bohemia to fix the damn recoil, including ex-military and gun-enthusiast types.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems plenty controllable to me. I have to move my mouse just under 12 inches to rotate 360 degrees.

Yeah, point taken, i'm getting simillar results with targets @20m, no zoom.

Zoom decreases dpi, so it's a trade-off.

Thanks for the vid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@NotMoreZombies: You have a mouse to aim with, use it, IRL it's not like the weapon sets itself back into the position it was before shooting, it's the shooter doing it, period.

You want to take gravity into play, fine, the guns fall to the ground without the player countering it, not back on target, sounds very fun indeed.

Regarding the intuitivity, what's more intuitive thing to do when your crosshair isn't on target than to put it there? Wait for it to go there on its own? That's bullcrap.

Your paragraph about stance and mounting affecting the recoil on the other hand makes me think you might have something wrong with your game, cause they sure as hell make a real difference in my game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×