Your thoughts: retail multiplayer ofp addon

[The_Captain 0]

Here's the deal, I've often heard a lot of rumblings about how people feel that retail addons are a bunch of hooey. Well, I'm just letting you all know about mine, because I'd love to hear your thoughts. Before I say anything more, I'm going to mention that all my meager profits are going right to maintaining official servers, so don't bitch about evil people making money off of unsuspecting fans. This multiplayer addon is going on a campaign disc, with 3 good quality campaigns. (I'm not promising the campaigns are as kickass as the BIS ones, but they are worth your time). The pack should retail for around $15. Another note: There are NO addons included on the cd, the map uses original flashpoint content. However, addon packs will be released later.

Here's the official box blurb:

HOMELAND SECURITY

The Ultimate Terrorist vs. Black Op. Multiplayer Battleground

Team oriented, class based online warfare

Gameplay: Earn funding for equipment by making kills, completing objectives, and winning scenarios

Scenarios: Play Five minute rounds grouped into themed scenarios, with custom ten minute finale missions with unique objectives

Objectives: Defuse/place the bomb, capture/rescue hostages, VIP assassination, steal inteligence, and more!

Mission Generator: Creates randomized scenrios on the fly for the ultimate in replayability

Classes: Six unique player classes: Officer, Commando, Recon, Sniper, Heavy, Demolitions

Equipment: Purchase all flashpoint weapons and vehicles: Berettas to jeeps to grenade launchers

Abilities: Set up machine gun nests, call in laser guided air strikes, parachute behind enemy lines, snipe from helicopters, purchase and lead convoys of vehicles

Dynamic Updates: Instantly download updates, keeping game balanced and adding new features

To clarify the gameplay:

At the beginning of the map, a six round 'scenario' is generated, focusing on one part of the island. During the first round, regardless of cash, weapon choices are limited based on class and round number. As the rounds progress, more weapons and equipment are unlocked for each player. The only respawns during rounds are those the commander buys beforehand and calls in, where players are flown over the map and can choose to parachute where they like. However, these are risky, and the general gameplay feel is "One life - use it".

Ground vehicles are used, but are very expensive, and are late-round weapons. Round six allows the use of the M2A2, M60, T55, BMP, however, each of these are very expensive.

The main driving force behind this gameplay is to limit people's choices in a map, unlike the normal ofp, which love it or hate it (I love it though ), becomes a "grab the cool weapons and vehicles that are lying around before someone else does" type game. Everyone always seems to have access to the high powered weaponry instantly, unless it's limited or non-existent in the first place.

Sid Meier defined a game as a series of informed decisions, and it seems to me that players would enjoy an alternate experience which allows them to adapt and make deisions based on their performance,rather than speed in grabbing things from crates.

Is it just me, or does the G36 frag fest bother anyone else? The way I have it set up, players have to work harder than normal for their favorite sniping weapons... And, they can only choose their class at the beginning of the scenario. All the classes are pretty much balanced as is: Commanders do their share of commanding, snipers sneak around and snipe, assault guys run into battles and kill, recon guys carry out recon, heavy guys set up defenses, and demo guys blow sh*t up. Each one has strengths and weaknesses, and to be truly formidable, they need to compliment each other.

As to the dynamic mission generator, it actually does make the maps different every time. Each scenario has the same terrian for all six rounds (though this is changed between scenarios), but each round, many variables are cycled so it becomes tough to dominate on the map just because you've played it more than anyone else.... like every multiplayer game out there, just about.

Description of classes:

Officer: Limited weapon choices, (ak47/gl or M16/GL) but leads players into battle, buys vehicles and interventions (parchute respawns of dead players, ammo crates, air strikes) at the beginning of rounds, and calls in interventions during gameplay.

Commando: Has cheapest rifles, and can carry lots of extra clips, (others usu. 4), weapons limited to rifles, sidearms grenades, and a law in later rounds. Only class who has access to scoped rifles. For an extra charge, can choose to parachute over the objective rather than landing at insertion zone like other players. Only unit to have AA launcher

Recon: Can heal other players, and carries GPS locator which pinpoints enemy locations within 50-150m to all friendly units nearby (must buy upgrades to increase range). Weapons limited to grenades, smokers, and silenced smgs. Has cheapest NVG's/binoculars. Can buy laser designators to call in airstrikes (officer must approve and send them though)

Heavy: Weapon choices limited to M60/pk and sidearms. By default carries two sandbags he can deploy. Can buy A/V mines. Can buy M2 .50 machine gun which he can deploy/pack up anywhere. Only unit to get skorpion in round 1. Can pay extra to be gunner in orbiting blackhawk, or use 20mm grenade turret on a cessna.

Sniper: Weapons limited to HK G3/Fn Fal, sidearms, and m21/dragunov. Can buy 'cloaking' device which hides him from recon GPS for 15 seconds/30 seconds/60 seconds (based on upgrade). (Not a visual cloaking device though)

Demo: Explosives! Gets access to AT launcher, LAW/rpg before other classes, rotational grende launcher, M16/AK with underslung, and gets hand grenades in round 1. Also gets time bombs and satchels. w00t!

Because of time issues, the map will take place on the island Nogova, with rural north european terrorists. 4 New islands/locations will be added in the future. I'm planning in the future to include addon content from *consenting* addon authors that will be available for free download by anyone, ("Counter Terrorist Compilation Pack, etc.) but will be mainly utilized as serverside addon packages that are used exclusively by the map. The packages I'm planning are: Ultimate Weapon Upgrade (50-60 new kickass weapons), Desert Warfare, Jungle Warfare, Urban Warfare, Arctic Warfare. The goal of those packages would be to expand use of really damn cool addons in multiplayer, as well as facilitate gameplay. Some of these addons are just really damned awesome, and they aren't used outside of clans or groups of friends in multiplayer. The idea is NOT to 'make money' off of other's hard work, but to make the addons a larger part of the general public's OFP experience.

Now, you probably ask why it's going retail instead of being just for free:

1) To maintain balanced gameplay, there need to be official servers that download the content to player's machines. 1 Server is manageable in the cash department, but 5-10 a month can put a drain on the pocket book.

2) To actually use the addon packs I outlined, there have to be, once again, at least one server per package so folks actually use them online. Otehrwise, the addons would never get used. More $$.

3) I'm putting up at *least* one free beta server, which has a slightly feature limited version of the map so people can try it out and play for completely free, no addons required to play.

4) If it goes retail, that means a larger audience gets the chance to play it, rather than just the people that peruse a website and download a map.

I'd really like to hear your thoughts. Once I work a few more bugs out, I'll set up my public beta server.

[Aaron Kane 0]

Sounds cool. But I dont play multiplayer, so....

*runs away*

[Placebo 29]

And do you have Bis'/CM's permission to make money from their game?

Addons and mods belong strangely enough in the addons and mods forum

Moving to A&M

[The_Captain 0]

Well, it's more of a general question on thoughts about paying for a retail addon, but you're the moderator .

As to the playing/not playing of multiplayer, I'm putting in a single player training mode because not everyone has broadband. Was terrible for me until I shelled out for it. But, a multiplayer game in single player mode doesn't exactly compare to actual people running and thinking. I may *gasp* do a free campaign in the future, though. And to all who will bring it up, BTL made me cringe. I'm a firm believer in releasing something when it's supposed to be released, damnit, not rushing it out the door for fourth quarter sales quotas.

Random thought: Anyone else here a former PCXL junkie? Those are MY retail product standards. If it were buggy, I'd not release my addon or cut the buggy features rather than release buggy bullcr*p on fans so I can 'make money'.

And in reponse to placebo's next post, I should have looked. *groan*

Also, if community response is good, these are the addons that I would be honored to make Homeland Security support (with author consent, which I will ask for in due time)

FliPer's M4A1 Pack (Rocks! Scopes are for G36 Whores, anyway. Iron sights all the way.)

Fliper's M4A1 Masterkey (My favorite small arm ever. I have an airsoft one in my garage I *love* how Fliper coded it so people fly in he air. Endless souce of entertainment. BOOM... chak-chak)

The Hk Pack (Holy CRAP Vipersheart put a lot of time and energy into this! One of the most flat out amazing addons I've used. If he lets me use it, I'll have to balance the OICW with something for the terrorists. Powerful sh*t. Holy Crap. AND he made new units. More wepaons than BIS could shake a stick at, and GOOD weapons, too.)

Kegety's Russian Weapon pack (Damn, PK47 and scoped AK's, a handgun and that kickass RPG-7.)

Kegety's S/W pack (.44 Magnum! hell yes! Reeecoil!

OTW's Machine Guns & Handguns (They animated weapons! They animated weapons!

PLD's P90 (P90 as a handgun, smart cookie, works great)

DS's Desert Eagle (The ds mod die, but the handgun is -nice-)

Win's UZI (because an uzi is a handgun. Word.)

DKM Mod's Mossberg (Shotgun! Shotgun! Shotgun!

Captain Moore's Little Birds (I wish... *drools*)

TJP's UH60L DAP (Black Black Black Hawk... down.)

I doubt I'll get to use all of those, but they would make for some sweet balancing. (And hey, you would still be able to AWP whore with VH's G22... until the CT's got an M2A2. Heh. (launches TOW at muzzle flash))

Once I nail down features and get balancing done, (balancing *never* ends in a multiplayer game...heh...) I'll get back to WRP edit and make some new islands. A full urban setting would go great with VH's mafia killers...

[Placebo 29]

If you'd gone down to page two in general you would have seen this thread Will you buy unofficial expanition pack?

Sure I will!                             9  [18.75%]

Yes, if it costs that!                 8  [16.67%]

No. Its banned by publisher!  31  [64.58%]

[blackdog~ 0]

Sounds stupid... so do you plan to make this yourself?

And plus, if you use addon packs by other people they won't like you selling their own work for your own financial gain. If you wanted to sell it with Fliper's M4A1 pack I am sure that he would disagree to such a silly idea...

You would also have to get permission to copy the whole MOD scenario from Valve Software and Sierra Studios considering what you are thinking of is a mix of Team Fortress Classic and Counter-Strike (and the coming soon Condition Zero).

I am sorry if I sound like a jerk, but I just think its a lame idea.

[Another Edit, after I saw placebo's fresh post]

Hehe, there you go

[Placebo 29]

Even if you don't like the idea you could try to be a smidge more constructive than "sounds stupid".

Much appreciated blackdog~ better all around if people explain what they mean, on either side

[The_Captain 0]

There's always a way to tell when someone doesn't read the whole post, although I admit it was a bit long.

1) I already mentioned that I'm not selling any addons, they're just used to enhance gameplay down the road

2) "Plan on making"? It's already in alpha, the only reason alpha != beta, is that any alpha has more bugs and a few features left out.

3) I'll marry the next person to copyright an 'idea' or 'concept' for a game. Why do you think there are so many crappy clones of any successful game out there?

4) Wide open scenarios + vehicles != Sierra Studios/Valve. Personally, I'm sick of static mazes in MP games where the person that sniper whores and camps wins because he found the perfect camping spot... Randomized maps and open settings help defeat this sort of "knowledge = winning" gameplay. I think a good quote to use is one I found anonymously on the net: (props to whoever wrote it)

"OFP: Because real life is not a maze"

[HellToupee 0]

I luv this captian guy i myself hate the g36 bunnies, iron sights all da way.

[STS_SolidSnake 0]

I like the idea, do you have any ETA for the public beta test?

But as placebo said most people wont buy unoffical addons

[The_Captain 0]

As to the public beta, I'd say "When it's done", but according to BlackDog, that would probably violate one of Sierra's copyrights.  

In actuality, I'd say about 3-4 weeks to clean up balancing issues and defeat a few nagging bugs, as well as finish up work on the classes.

True, a lot of people don't buy unofficial addons, but the unofficial addons I've seen have demos so underwhelming as to turn people away. A public time-unlimited beta helps curb that. I can say for myself, I never buy games until I've spent about 40 hours on a demo. =). Not to mention, I'm going to try to not limit the beta version *too* much (other than the fact that there'll only be one server. heh. heh. heh.). Demos that are *too* limited just plain bug me. I'll probably leave out the cool finale missions, the nifty cutscenes, and limit some of the class features, and not use all the mission locations, perhaps 2/3 out of the normal 10-15. And the beta also won't support future islands/settings, but it should be enough to let people know whetehr or not they like it.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

hmmm, it sounds pretty simplistic. I don't see why anyone would want to limit the OFP environment so much. I mean, if I wanted a limited game of CTs v Ts, I'd play RS or CS or something

Edit: Not to mention that I think it is intellectually dishonest to make money off of work that isnt really yours. Also, since when did Counter-Terrorists have to buy their own weapons? If anything, a CT would be loaded for bear with the best weapons available, which in OFP would mean the G36

[The_Captain 0]

Well, it is, as you said, limited, but methinks in a good way. You still have access to just about all the OFP weapons and vehicles (*perhaps* on large maps there will be flyable aircraft), though they are doled out to the players over time so they don't instantly go for the top of the tech tree. Honestly, who uses the M16A2, or tokarev or M113 when they have the obvious choice of a G36, skorpion, or M2A2/Abrams in MP games? Since there's no cost or penalty for picking the more advanced variants, the less advanced ones are just underutilized filler.

Also, most OFP maps only use a tiny portion of those whole islands, which has bugged me to no end. HS uses a significantly larger portion as a whole, each scenario are ranging in size from standard OFP deathmatch boundaries to games on the scale of some of the mid-sized Stoner's C&H games, like drymouth.

And I must reiterate, it's limited *less* than R6 or CS, with laser guided air strikes, paradrops, static setuppable defenses, vehicle convoys, dynamic objectives (a bit more than capture and hold)

[Othin 0]

I'm still curious about the legality of this. Where does BIS and Codemasters fit in profit-wise? I assume your going to advertise, so that means that you will be using the copyright property of BIS and Codemasters (unless your like "THE NEW ADDON PACK for that war game made by the Europeans where you can drive tanks and fly planes but not that new one that just came out, that older one that takes place on islands *wink wink*.")

Using other peoples addons won't fly either. Even if they're "optional" downloads, the way you make it sound is that they will be an integral part of the game. That means you will have to pay them for their work. Even Bethesda Software (Morrowind III) decided to skip including user made mods, even though they own the rights to them, in their new expansion pack because of the legality issues involved.

I'm sure you can try it, but at 15 bucks a pop that probably won't cover court fees.

I'm also not trying to dissuade you from creating a mod for OFP, I'm not even trying to dissuade you from trying to make a little money off of it. But I do think its important that you research all of the legal issues before you release this.

[The_Captain 0]

Do you mean other addons or the OFP engine itself, as to the intelectual dishonesty? If I have enough time on my hands, I'll likely make my own suite of units/weapons, and no doubt islands. I would never use an addon publicly without an author's consent. I know that all addon authors do what they do without thoughts of money: It's all because they love the game. In the same respect, I'm not expecting much profit at all, and what I do get will siphon towards servers.

Addons aren't used online much at all anyway, outside of clan severs. I've seen public servers damn near explode when they have a map that requires gunslinger's addon. I want a lot of these addons to be used online, and if that means paying through the nose to set up servers, I'll do it.

The addons are, like I previously outlined, optional downloads, free for anyone to download, not just people who have bought the pack, but addons that also happen to be used by the game servers. No work belonging to other authors (including BIS/Codemasters) is actually sold on a cd or in stores. These packages would be available for download for anyone to use them in their own full fledged missions, or screwarounds on desert island, will the full documentation by the original authors, and no pretenses that it was I who made the content. It's very cheap to take credit for other's people's hard work.

If addon authors want payment for their work, I don't mind negotiating, but that aspect would need to be investigated further. I'll research the morrowind development.

Also, if the majority of servers are set up for the original game, then that implies that owners of the original, non updated version can play to their heart's content, but if they *do* want to play an enhanced version, then they can download the addon pack(s).

As far as I know, the publishers that made "Between the Lines" discovered in court that if you don't include anything made by any other party in the pack, it's legal to sell. Of course, all that legal effort was wasted on BTL... =)

As to the T's/CT's buying weapons, I've also always said, gameplay over realism in certain circumstances. In traditional OFP gameplay, everyone always outfits themselves with the best possible equipment,which amounts to some equipment not being utilized, and also a fair share of 'whoring'.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (The_Captain @ Oct. 01 2002,00:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, it is, as you said, limited, but methinks in a good way. You still have access to just about all the OFP weapons and vehicles (*perhaps* on large maps there will be flyable aircraft), though they are doled out to the players over time so they don't instantly go for the top of the tech tree. Honestly, who uses the M16A2, or tokarev or M113 when they have the obvious choice of a G36, skorpion, or M2A2/Abrams in MP games? Since there's no cost or penalty for picking the more advanced variants, the less advanced ones are just underutilized filler.

Also, most OFP maps only use a tiny portion of those whole islands, which has bugged me to no end. HS uses a significantly larger portion as a whole, each scenario are ranging in size from standard OFP deathmatch boundaries to games on the scale of some of the mid-sized Stoner's C&H games, like drymouth.

And I must reiterate, it's limited *less* than R6 or CS, with laser guided air strikes, paradrops, static setuppable defenses, vehicle convoys, dynamic objectives (a bit more than capture and hold)<span id='postcolor'>

A. The choice of weapons is up to the mapmaker. Since you've obviously been playing on Stoner's, you know that Tactician is very choosy in what equipment he puts on maps. There is no need to create an entirely new mod just to restrict access to weapons. And, as a sidenote, the G36 is standard issue for the Bundeswher, so I don't see why it's so unreasonable for NATO troops to be equipped with them.

B. If it is a CT vs T game, then you are going to have to limit it, otherwise it aint gonna be a CT vs T game. How many terrorist incidnts have you heard of required a CT to guide PGMs into their target? Or fly a jet? Or any of that other stuff you mentioned? I hate to burst your bubble pal, but you have been watching too many bad movies.

C. I would like to reiterate that CTs will be equipped with the best weapons and equipment available, so limiting them is self-defeating to the concept of your mod. Terrorists will be badly equipped (usually) but in CQB, the difference between a G36 and an AKM is minimal (and BTW, the Skorpion is a widely proliferated weapon that is very popular with terrorists).

D. Your mod doesnt sound a whole hell of alot different than what any talented mapmaker can accomplish with current units and scripts, so I doubt you will have much success marketing something that can just as easily be made for free (and without legal disputes).

[Adammo 0]

I'll have to recheck my license agreement to use Oxygen but I thought it said something about it was not legal to sell or gain money from addons made from it without written consent from Bi Studios.

btw, any addons that I make and people want to make profits from will be screened thru Bi Studios before I give any permission.. I would not like to get into a legal proceeding over a few models that I put out for free for the fun of it.

I suggest sending a letter to Bi studios before you go any further and just ask them. Getting sued from BI Studios AND Codemasters it not my cup of fun..

Capt Moore

[The_Captain 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Oct. 01 2002,00:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A. The choice of weapons is up to the mapmaker. Since you've obviously been playing on Stoner's, you know that Tactician is very choosy in what equipment he puts on maps. There is no need to create an entirely new mod just to restrict access to weapons. And, as a sidenote, the G36 is standard issue for the Bundeswher, so I don't see why it's so unreasonable for NATO troops to be equipped with them.

B. If it is a CT vs T game, then you are going to have to limit it, otherwise it aint gonna be a CT vs T game. How many terrorist incidnts have you heard of required a CT to guide PGMs into their target? Or fly a jet? Or any of that other stuff you mentioned? I hate to burst your bubble pal, but you have been watching too many bad movies.

C. I would like to reiterate that CTs will be equipped with the best weapons and equipment available, so limiting them is self-defeating to the concept of your mod. Terrorists will be badly equipped (usually) but in CQB, the difference between a G36 and an AKM is minimal (and BTW, the Skorpion is a widely proliferated weapon that is very popular with terrorists).

D. Your mod doesnt sound a whole hell of alot different than what any talented mapmaker can accomplish with current units and scripts, so I doubt you will have much success marketing something that can just as easily be made for free (and without legal disputes).<span id='postcolor'>

In reply to Tex:

A) I enjoy tactician's maps, and I realize that he's choosy. However, the vast majority of maps just have a bunch of vehicles and weapons on one side and a bunch on the other, with a few well or not-so-well thought out C&H points in between. The idea is not to crap on the current maps, just to offer players an alternative.

B) It's actually closer to military counter terrorism supported by US/Nato equipment going against terrorists rather than dedicted urban CT units. And there won't be any flying of planes, although as I said there *may* be a flyable unarmed helicopter or two. The thought is going more into the gameplay than the realism. I could buck for complete realism and have twelve guys with G36's on one side of a building, and twelve guys with ak-47's on the other, but something would appear to be lacking there. =) Although Chuck Norris and his Squadron of Bad Screenwriters won't make an appearance, I'm bucking for a less limited version of T vs CT gameplay than the otehr opportunities out there. After all, if you want hardcore small arms realism, you play rainbow six, and for a less realistic small arms setting, you look at counter-strike. I'm trying to offer more alternatives, keeping a . With a lot of the equipment, certain classes get the opportunity to get them before the rest. For example, the assault class is the only one that can buy the skorpion in round one, but by round three, all classes have the opportunity to buy one.

C) It once again comes back to balance issues: If the terrorists were terminally underequipped and the counter terrorists had the best equipment, then there would be large balancing issues.

D) True, with a lot of work, you *can* create a duplicate using current units and scripts. However, the more changes to OFP gameplay you make, the more bugs and balancing issues you introduce. As well, since this mission is only 1/4th of a pack, anyone who buys it is, in a sense, only paying about four dollars, of which I get about $0.10-$0.20 to siphon back into servers.

As to captain moore's post, I will no doubt ask codemaster's/BIS before I release any free addon packs. However, the question is that how am I to directly gain money from addons that have been released for a while, are not being directly sold, are not limited only to paying customers, and have no outcome on the sales themselves. If the addons were included on the cd itself, then there would be major issues.

Also, if I compiled an addon pack (with consent, of course) that was for use *only* on the free beta server and not on the retail server, by the logic expressed to this point, it would be completely free of all legal issues, yes?

Once again, the proof is in the pudding. If the gameplay itself isn't fun, then what's the point of trying to bolster it with addons? "Sure, if I add a hundred weapons, a not-fun game will instantly become lots of fun!"

I've always been an advocate of gameplay over flashy content. I've seen lots of crappy games that have huge bullet point features lists, and seemingly cool content.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Oct. 01 2002,12:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (The_Captain @ Oct. 01 2002,00:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, it is, as you said, limited, but methinks in a good way. You still have access to just about all the OFP weapons and vehicles (*perhaps* on large maps there will be flyable aircraft), though they are doled out to the players over time so they don't instantly go for the top of the tech tree. Honestly, who uses the M16A2, or tokarev or M113 when they have the obvious choice of a G36, skorpion, or M2A2/Abrams in MP games? Since there's no cost or penalty for picking the more advanced variants, the less advanced ones are just underutilized filler.

Also, most OFP maps only use a tiny portion of those whole islands, which has bugged me to no end. HS uses a significantly larger portion as a whole, each scenario are ranging in size from standard OFP deathmatch boundaries to games on the scale of some of the mid-sized Stoner's C&H games, like drymouth.

And I must reiterate, it's limited *less* than R6 or CS, with laser guided air strikes, paradrops, static setuppable defenses, vehicle convoys, dynamic objectives (a bit more than capture and hold)<span id='postcolor'>

A. The choice of weapons is up to the mapmaker. Since you've obviously been playing on Stoner's, you know that Tactician is very choosy in what equipment he puts on maps. There is no need to create an entirely new mod just to restrict access to weapons. And, as a sidenote, the G36 is standard issue for the Bundeswher, so I don't see why it's so unreasonable for NATO troops to be equipped with them.

B. If it is a CT vs T game, then you are going to have to limit it, otherwise it aint gonna be a CT vs T game. How many terrorist incidnts have you heard of required a CT to guide PGMs into their target? Or fly a jet? Or any of that other stuff you mentioned? I hate to burst your bubble pal, but you have been watching too many bad movies.

C. I would like to reiterate that CTs will be equipped with the best weapons and equipment available, so limiting them is self-defeating to the concept of your mod. Terrorists will be badly equipped (usually) but in CQB, the difference between a G36 and an AKM is minimal (and BTW, the Skorpion is a widely proliferated weapon that is very popular with terrorists).

D. Your mod doesnt sound a whole hell of alot different than what any talented mapmaker can accomplish with current units and scripts, so I doubt you will have much success marketing something that can just as easily be made for free (and without legal disputes).<span id='postcolor'>

Tex dont bash it tillu played it, he wants to make an enjoyable addon that will hopefully have its own servers and ppl to play on them, he donst want a g36 frag fest thats boring, and u cant give cts g36 and ts aks its not fair i say make it iron sights thats more fun and takes a little more skill than sniping thru your scope, its his addon tex he can do what he likes.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Oct. 01 2002,01:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tex dont bash it tillu played it, he wants to make an enjoyable addon that will hopefully have its own servers and ppl to play on them, he donst want a g36 frag fest thats boring, and u cant give cts g36 and ts aks its not fair i say make it iron sights thats more fun and takes a little more skill than sniping thru your scope, its his addon tex he can do what he likes.<span id='postcolor'>

I can't play it, because he hasnt made it. And he posted here, asking for opinions, and I am giving him mine. Just because I don't come out saying "Gee whiz, sounds awesome, I can't wait to give you money for something that isn't really yours!" doesn't mean that I am bashing it. For all I know, it may turn out to be fun, but to me, having a game that sounds like Counter-Flashpoint made with proprietary tools and in clear violation of OFP's EULA just doesnt seem like too good an idea to me.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (The_Captain @ Oct. 01 2002,01:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">C) It once again comes back to balance issues: If the terrorists were terminally underequipped and the counter terrorists had the best equipment, then there would be large balancing issues.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, yeah. How many CT vs T incidents have you heard about recently where the Terrorists made it out alive? The only advantages Terrorists have are that they are usually on the defensive, they have no moral qualms about using hostages as bargaining chips, and many are willing to sacrifice their life.

In most situations, it isn't whether the Terrorists will win or not, it's how many innocents are going to die before all the Terrorists are dead.

But on the upside, you do sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, and while it baffles me why you would want to do a concept that has been done to death recently, it is encouraging that you seem to have a good grasp of what you want to do and how to do it.

[The_Captain 0]

I find *all* opinions valid, so I don't get defensive when I read constructive criticism.

The original reason I started was that I was making a small project based on "a better counter strike mousetrap" so I could learn the engine and how it works, so I could make a few of my campaign/dynamic SP addons I've been tossing around for a while.

I admit that the premise isn't original, it's not supposed to be. It was originally supposed to be a learning experience. As soon as resistance added in sidearms and dialogs did I realize that such a mission would be 'simple' to develop. Of course, that was about nine 60 hour weeks ago. =)

All the popular-and-released flashpoint projects are ones that started and finished small, and built on earlier success. Iterative design is a beautiful thing.

I have full documented designs for the below concepts, but I eventually realized that I didn't know enough about the engine to start a project right off, and I decided to start something small and finishable, rather than try a failure-bound ubergame. I could write off the top of my head a few dozen pages on each design, however, I know from experience that starting a mod in an engine that's not friendly to your ideas is no picnic, and trying to think up 'cool ideas' without knowing limits of a game can be disastrous.

A few of my design ideas for non-profit single player mods:

Cyberpunk action/strategy (Miniguns, command from airships, and cybernetic enforcers. Oh yes, and remote mind control of your assassins, so when they die, you don't.)

Post apocalyptic RPG/RPS (What if those scuds DID launch? 20 years after the fact, it's time to play.)

Vietnam navy seal tactical strategy (SEALs. SEB Nam Pack. Resistance Dialogs. Dynamic coding from HS.)

Modern day mercenary tactical strategy (Now THESE guys actually have to buy their equipment )

Dynamic alien invasion "Updated X-Com" (Just make a scaled down world map and you're good to go)

I'd do an AvP mod, if I hadn't already skirted some nasty legal issues with my starcraft>AvP mod oh so many years ago. I'm a fan, and I could see how one would work well in the OFP engine what with realistically done USCM troops, but I've had enough Inteletual Property squabbling for my lifetime. Plus, OFP isn't indoor-friendly. At least my avp mod was never foxxed though.

I'll eventually pick one and develop it, but HS is my priority for now.

An aside: If the user made mods idea doesn't pan out, I won't put them up for download in the future, it's that simple. However, the retail product will be playable, and hopefully fun, with original flashpoint content. I will include new islands, though, regardless of adding new weapons/vehicles/statics.

[The Sharpshooter 0]

It all seems pretty perfect. I like the way you are doing it, and you seem a very dedicated(don`t now if it`s said like that) person. I may buy it, but not before I see a Demo or a Beta.

[The_Captain 0]

Well, it won't be released in stores until december, and I'm finishing the code in about 3-4 weeks, so there's plenty of time for a nice, long, free beta.

[HellToupee 0]

When u do start sellin send a few copys via gameplanet www.gameplanet.co.nz if ya lucky they might set up a server in nz, all of aus and nz use gps resistance server.