The possabilities of ofp's graphics engine

[jollyreaper 0]

I'm new to Flashpoint. Saw it when it first game out, thought "nice slideshow." Got a real computer recently, now the graphics run silky smooth and the only response I'm capable of making is "drool."

Despite all the little niggling problems that have been mentioned here, the AI's, flight models, and so forth, when you get right down to it this is still a revolutionary game. We're talking a Wolfenstein or a Doom here, first of it's kind. The scenery is simply incredible. It does not take much effort to become lost in the game world. Lying prone on the top of a hill, looking down the other side with the binoculars, scanning the treeline for concealed enemy troops, the feeling is one of total immersion.

This really got me thinking, "What kind of games are we going to see after this?" The first person shooter genre had gotten old even before Quake came out. Half-Life said "Hey, why don't we give you good graphics, gameplay, and a story?" Whoa. No One Lives Forever came along and said "You've played shooters, you've played shooters with stories, but you've never played one this in-depth!" Alice came along and said "You know? The engine is advanced enough, let's forget guns and corridors and demons and aliens, let's od something *weird.*" And it worked.

So, what kind of games do you think OFP will inspire in the future, if not from BIS then from other companies?

1. Hunting Game. BIS, don't laugh at this, consider it a license to print money. Hunting games are insanely popular. Get something like this working on a console, put in all the details hunters are looking for (animal tracks, droppings, various weapons, etc) and you'll be able to sell the hell out of it.

2. Twilight 2000 sort of game. The original PC version had great concepts marred by inadequate technology. They wanted driving and infantry combat. That just wasn't going to happen with 1991 hardware. Flashpoint is everything they were dreaming about back then. So, what were the good parts of Twilight? It was set in Europe post-WWIII. You are the commander of a band of ex-NATO troops who are looking to put together a contry in what's left of Poland. An insane warlord is trying to do likewise, but he won't be very nice about it. You are basically exploring, gathering resources like vehicles, fuel, ammo, and making friends with the towns and villages around your main base. Each of your soliders has a detailed background and a comprehensive set of skills for use in-game. From the sounds of it Resistance is adding some of these concepts to the existing Flashpoint game. Would be interesting to see the concept taken further.

3. Combat sim, different era. One of the missions I played, a particular part of the island looked just like a place I'd actually been in South Carolina, Civil War battlefield. As I was scouting around with my binoculars I thought "You know, swap out my jeep for a horse, my M-16 for a cavalry carbine repeater, and make my uniform blue and this could be the civil war." Historic battle sims have almost always been boardgame conversions, moving units around on a map. Nobody has done a shooter in this era. Of course, the reload time of black powder rifles might end up annoying the hell out of people who feel the anti-tank weapons take too long as is. Still, the point is that the technology is to the point where something like this could be done and be done convincingly.

4. Even more comprehensive land combat sim (where I think BIS is probably going.) The vehicle controls are a little wonky, the AI's kind of annoying, but the point is, the OFP engine can make vehicles look *good*. The flying feeling in a helicopter is just wonderful. The way the landscape turns below, the smoke trails and explosions, it looks exactly like training footage I've seen of Apaches in Europe at the end of the Cold War. This is the direction most people are looking towards on this board, it seems. Fix everything that's wrong with OFP with particular attention paid to the AI's, add in new ideas and features that won't totally kill the framerate, tons more weapons and vehicles, bump up graphic quality, call it 2.0 and ship it.

So, any thoughts?

[walker 0]

Hi jollyreaper

I have already said many times that the OFP game Engine can be used for many more games.

But several of new games are already being built as OFP MODs.

There is a complete WWII simulation being built (makes BF 1942 look like a kids toy)

The Falklands / Malvinas war sim is being constructed from both sides.

There is Middle East MOD again from both sides

There is a full strategic battle interface Spinor's Command Engine 2 (check my sig)

There are several Sci Fi mods under construction.

There are some crime MODs under construction.

There are some stunt mods and race track MODs

Hunting games this needs more anim types to do four legged animals etc BIS next version please. Lots of people want animals for scenery any way. Would also be useful for sword and sorcery and medieval / Napoleonic strategy sims.

I think its only a matter of time before some of the MODs are snapped up by the game companies as commercial products

Kind Regards walker

[jollyreaper 0]

Those mods sound good but there's always the matter of professional games having just a bit more polish.

Just finished playing the downed pilot mission, escape and evasion. Holy shit! All that mission would have needed is more ambient sound effects to put me in full Blair Witch freakout mode. Hooting owls, snapping twigs, etc.

I think it'd be highly cool if mission planners kept the psychological element in mind when putting these things together. There's no scarier feeling than being hunted in the dark.

What would be a really interesting twist for a game like this, anyone here ever hear of Delta Green? It's a modern update of the Call of Cthulhu role-playing game. Part of their history is battling the occult forces of Nazi Germany. One of the nastier tricks the Germans discovered was the secret of reanimation fluid. Dead animals and soldiers injected with such fluids attained a state of homicidal unlife. Man, could you imagine a night patrol through a heavily wooded area, no moon, and coming face to face with something like that? Aliens vs. Predator was the first shooter that had scared and a lot of that was thanks to the excellent lighting effects. Flashpoint has that and more.

Personally I can't wait to see what people come up with for this.

[TheBrain 0]

There are very much mods under cunstruction. I hope they will be finished some times.

Some vietnam or WWII mods seems to be very interesting.

But like jollyreaper said, not only the maps, textures and vehciles are important. The most important factor is the story and good missions. I hope the mod-guys don't forget that. On various mod-pages I find very much screenshots of new vehicles, but no details about the story. Please correct me if I am wrong

[jollyreaper 0]

The story is damn important. The original Flashpoint doesn't have as much compared with games like Max Payne and Half-Life but for a "sim" it actually sports a very good one. I'd say it's more along the lines of TIE Fighter in that regard, a great way of unifying the storylines of the various battles. Flashpoint's lineage is a bit more from the military ground vehicle and aircraft sim school than the traditional shooter. Those games have tended to be notoriously lacking in storyline.

I gues the real question is what the majority of gamers are interested in seeing. The bulk of the purchasers, are they single player or multiplayer? Me, I'm almost exclusively singleplayer. None of my friends have the hardware to mutliplay these games or if they do they lack the interest. (sigh) Playing against random people online is just begging for disappointment.

I'm going to have to dig up Resistance after all the bugs are patched. From the sounds of it that's the next step BIS is taking in terms of story developmen. I'm interested to see where they go with it. Should be a sign of what to expect for Flashpoint 2.

[Kermit 0]

Assuming that someone would totally rewrite the way the game works, Operation Flashpoint's graphics would make an excellent flight combat simulation. Most flight combat simulations make the ground simple, so it looks like shit when you get close to it. And most dogfights end up near the ground, or at least mine do. Operation Flashpoint is the best looking flight simulation experience I have ever had. If only the physics matched, there would not be a better flight combat simulation, or better game at all.

[jollyreaper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kermit @ Sep. 29 2002,21:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Assuming that someone would totally rewrite the way the game works, Operation Flashpoint's graphics would make an excellent flight combat simulation.  Most flight combat simulations make the ground simple, so it looks like shit when you get close to it.  And most dogfights end up near the ground, or at least mine do.  Operation Flashpoint is the best looking flight simulation experience I have ever had.  If only the physics matched, there would not be a better flight combat simulation, or better game at all.<span id='postcolor'>

For choppers, definately. I think you could end up running out of room if you were using jets, due to speed and all. The original Commanche was so damn cool because of the canyons, racing through 'em, popping up to fire missiles, etc. The subsequent commanches had terrible flight controls and I simply couldn't make the choopers do squat. Dunno if my machine was too slow or what.

What would be pretty damn cool is making a Zone-66 conversion of OFP. In case nobody recalls that game, it came out way back in the '90's and was 360 scroller fighter game. You flew over huge maps with tons of enemies, both on the ground and in the air. You had a finite weapon load and got to land at bases to reload. You had everything from guided missiles to cluser bombs to nukes. Nothing cooler than flying a figure eight over an enemy base with 20 cluster bombs spinning out from beneath your wings.

Come to think of it, I could probably spank something like that together with the mission editor. Stock up some bases with choppers and tons of fuel/repair/ammo vehicles, then scatter the enemies about. Get shot down, crawl back to base and get in another bird. The flight models would still need improvement, though. The choppers can be a bit tricky, especially when trying to land, and don't even get me started about how impossible the jets are to fly at this point.

I think stealing choppers is still probably my favorite part of the game. Just about every special forces mission ended with me stealing one of their choppers, blowing up the base, and taking it home. Playing the Revenge mission where you are leading a russian squad going after civilian terrorists, I was able to kill the pilots of that special forces blackhawk that came in so I said "what the hell" and stole it, too. Gotta be pretty galling for any pilot to be chopperjacked by a commie grunt.

[HellToupee 0]

I find the jets easy to fly, take the 190 a8 up in il2 sturmovik and u will soon learn hard thats y i like that plane soo much. Any way what needs improvement in planes is targeting unguided weps, u need sum sorta gidance cos i cant put my viewdistance up that high, but when i get a comp capable of 5000m view jets will rock.

[Audie Murphy 0]

I know ever since I got resistance and a new computer and I see all that beautiful scenery with open plains and forrests, I think Civil War

[jollyreaper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Audie Murphy @ Sep. 30 2002,00:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know ever since I got resistance and a new computer and I see all that beautiful scenery with open plains and forrests, I think Civil War<span id='postcolor'>

Only problem I can think of, when dealing with enemies at range I usally pop off 4 or 5 shots to take them down. I'd hate like hell to do that with a muzzleloading riffle.

[Kermit 0]

I'm talking about the graphical aspect only. Of course, if you made a world designed for aerial combat using Operation Flashpoint's graphical level of detail, only the best computers could run it (Operation Flashpoint's worlds are too small to be used for a flight combat simulator). However, I am also talking theoretically.