LAxemann's DynaSound: A new soundmod (+ public soundmod-framework)

[Gudsawn 93]

Well, at least I hope so, there currently is nothing that's being executed on a global level and I don't plan to implenent something like that! :D

Brilliant, that's good to hear :)

YouTube videos mainly, but I also got some nice sounds from someone who is the sound engineer (or something like that) in a theatre.

I usually produce music and modified kickdrums etc. make a nice bass.

Additionally, I got two firearm libraries, one of them is this one. The guys crowdfunded so that they could record firearms for free for everyone.

The sound quality isn't that great but making sounds is all about composing and EQin the elements right! :)

I donated to that SFX project when it was on Kickstarter haha, good to see it being put to good use :D

From what I've heard so far, you're doing a brilliant job. Keep at it!

Oh and I thought I could hear some kick drums in there, the MX in particular sounds quite punchy :p

Thanks for your reply!

[gulag 10]

I'm sure you'll do a great job, you have already added lots of immersion in Arma 3. Like everyone here I look forward to "taste" your work. :)

[jumpinghubert 48]

That should be a key feature for a soundmod: uncompressed high dynamic range! Thanks laxemann!!

[HJohnson 16]

Will it be possible to have dynamic hi and low's playing for each weapon in the framework? I'm trying to work on a sound mod that plays these sounds independently so they change depending on the environment or the situation but its just a drag on dedicated servers (21gb error rpts).

So yeah, will this be able to support that?

[laxemann 1673]

Will it be possible to have dynamic hi and low's playing for each weapon in the framework? I'm trying to work on a sound mod that plays these sounds independently so they change depending on the environment or the situation but its just a drag on dedicated servers (21gb error rpts).

So yeah, will this be able to support that?

Yup, the script would need slight modifications but that's no deal, DynaSound in fact will most likely get similiar stuff, too :)

[laxemann 1673]

Hey dudes'n'duderinas,

I hope you all survived that christmas thing!

'Just wanted to keep you up-to-date:

• "Big Rockets" explosion soundset is finished

• Gau-8 explosion soundset is finished, too, but needs more love. Doesn't sound as good ingame as I thought it would. :(

• The Tavor's done!

• I did some first bulletsnaps.

Oh, and here's a video showing the Tavor and the bulletsnaps/supersonic cracks.

Keep in mind that the mod is a bit quieter than e.g. JSRS, so make sure to watch the video in a decent volume. :)

Constructive feedback is more than welcome! :)

Have a good one!

LAxe

[megagoth1702 251]

Veeery nice. :)

[i3r4ndon 16]

Looking forward to it :)

[Gudsawn 93]

Your sound mod got me thinking - I like the whole idea of sounds that are supposed to be quiet are quiet and sounds that are supposed to be loud are loud, rather than all sounds being a similar volume (due to compression).

So, out of interest, I jumped into Arma and recorded two sounds - some MX gunshots (from the shooter's PoV), and a grenade explosion (1 foot away from the listener). Here's the waveform:

The MX gunshots are on the left, the grenade blast is the one on the far right.

For reference (from real life decibel measurements) a grenade blast is around 60dB louder than a gunshot. Yet, in the waveform from Arma, the grenade is about the same volume of the MX. Now, I know it's a game and we can't replicate realistic decibel ranges, but shouldn't the grenade be much louder than the MX? I recorded some other sounds (e.g. 40mm cannon vs MX gunshots) and although there was some difference in volume, it really wasn't alot.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this to hear what your thoughts were on this and why this might be the case in Arma.

Edited December 30, 2014 by MisterGoodson

[laxemann 1673]

Anyway, I just wanted to post this to hear what your thoughts were on this and why this might be the case in Arma.

To make it super-simple:

In digital audio there is a fix border of "0db" - you can't exceed that, trying to do so results in distortion.

ArmA is a game and as a developer, you want to make your game sound alright on every system.

Just imagine that: If the difference between a grenade and a footstep would be pictured in ArmA, we'd have to play on a VERY, VERY low volume level.

Meaning, we wouldn't hear anything most of the time and then, suddenly, a grenade makes our speakers explode.

Speaking of speakers: Many regular gaming headsets etc. couldn't even stand the sudden volume increase.

As always, my favourite video :D

[tachi 10]

As always, my favourite video :D

Just one word: WOW.

Perfectly described why i don't like some sounds in some mods :)

[Gudsawn 93]

Thanks for the video :)

This is why BI need to add real-time limiters to mimic a higher dynamic range by adjusting the amplitude of sounds relative to other sounds that are being played at the same time.

For example, momentarily reducing the amplitude of machinegun fire when a grenade goes off (I think this is called 'ducking' or 'sidechaining' which you're probably already familiar with). This makes the perceived grenade blast sound louder in comparison to the rest of the sounds (even though all sounds still peak at 0dB).

Games like Battlefield: Bad Company used to do this really well. An RPG blast would sound loud simply by forcing all other sounds to get quieter (momentarily).

If you're interested, I found a slideshow on how HDR was used in Bad Company:

http://www.slideshare.net/aclerwall/how-high-dynamic-range-audio-makes-battlefield-bad-company-go-boom-1292018

Here's a video (used in that slideshow) that demonstrates this technique:

Notice how the volume of the radio is greatly reduced (almost muted) when the HE goes off, and then is gradually brought back in? If only we had something like this in Arma. BI, please implement a similar system :P

Right, I'm rambling. LAxemann, keep making gun sounds for us :P

[megagoth1702 251]

Your sound mod got me thinking - I like the whole idea of sounds that are supposed to be quiet are quiet and sounds that are supposed to be loud are loud, rather than all sounds being a similar volume (due to compression).

So, out of interest, I jumped into Arma and recorded two sounds - some MX gunshots (from the shooter's PoV), and a grenade explosion (1 foot away from the listener). Here's the waveform:

http://i.gyazo.com/45d538b4316402a660223ea99c71b1af.png

The MX gunshots are on the left, the grenade blast is the one on the far right.

For reference (from real life decibel measurements) a grenade blast is around 60dB louder than a gunshot. Yet, in the waveform from Arma, the grenade is about the same volume of the MX. Now, I know it's a game and we can't replicate realistic decibel ranges, but shouldn't the grenade be much louder than the MX? I recorded some other sounds (e.g. 40mm cannon vs MX gunshots) and although there was some difference in volume, it really wasn't alot.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this to hear what your thoughts were on this and why this might be the case in Arma.

If I might say something too. :)

As laxemann said - if he reduced MX volume so that grenade volume would be louder, people would complain "why are footsteps as loud as my weapon"? Do you have ANY idea how much 60 dB actually is? Here, I produced a little track for you. :) Listen to it so that the gunfire sounds comfortable. Or try to, I don't think your sound card will have enough juice. Gun sounds are at -60 dB, grenade sound is at 0dB. WATCH YOUR EARS, it will blow them away. I also included some more examples to show you what the difference in volume is for 24dB, 6dB and 0dB. Note on 0dB how there is barely any more "energy" in the grenade explosion. Difficult decisions that we sound guys have to deal with here. ;)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/91844c5h5572o9d/loudnessExamples.zip

In video games you have to work with a very limited dynaimic range. On a side note - a very good blog post by the DICE audio masters:

http://blogs.battlefield.com/2010/01/an_audiophile_s_guide_to_bf_bc2_full/

They briefly touch on the volume thing - but basically you don't need to have a real-life dynamic range in games just for good sound.

Thanks for the video :)

This is why BI need to add real-time limiters to mimic a higher dynamic range by adjusting the amplitude of sounds relative to other sounds that are being played at the same time.

For example, momentarily reducing the amplitude of machinegun fire when a grenade goes off (I think this is called 'ducking' or 'sidechaining' which you're probably already familiar with). This makes the perceived grenade blast sound louder in comparison to the rest of the sounds (even though all sounds still peak at 0dB).

Games like Battlefield: Bad Company used to do this really well. An RPG blast would sound loud simply by forcing all other sounds to get quieter (momentarily).

If you're interested, I found a slideshow on how HDR was used in Bad Company:

http://www.slideshare.net/aclerwall/how-high-dynamic-range-audio-makes-battlefield-bad-company-go-boom-1292018

Here's a video (used in that slideshow) that demonstrates this technique:

Notice how the volume of the radio is greatly reduced (almost muted) when the HE goes off, and then is gradually brought back in? If only we had something like this in Arma. BI, please implement a similar system :P

Right, I'm rambling. LAxemann, keep making gun sounds for us :P

ArmA 3 already has a limiter. It does not work as you describe though. Ducking is not possible in ArmA 3.

All the arma3 limiter does is - reduce the volume of a the audio mix so it's played back at 0. It simply cuts the volume for a tiny tiny fraction of a second, you don't even notice it really. That's it. There is no way for dynamic volume changes in arma3. Arma's sound engine has always been very basic compared to the rest of the game.

[Gudsawn 93]

As laxemann said - if he reduced MX volume so that grenade volume would be louder, people would complain "why are footsteps as loud as my weapon"? Do you have ANY idea how much 60 dB actually is?

Hi Megagoth, thanks for that audio clip and the blog post :)

I probably should've made myself clearer - but if you read my post, I wasn't suggesting we make grenades 60dB louder haha. I just wanted to make the point that the grenade should at least be a little louder than the MX gunshots.

For reference (from real life decibel measurements) a grenade blast is around 60dB louder than a gunshot. Yet, in the waveform from Arma, the grenade is about the same volume of the MX. Now, I know it's a game and we can't replicate realistic decibel ranges, but shouldn't the grenade be much louder than the MX?

In video games you have to work with a very limited dynaimic range. On a side note - a very good blog post by the DICE audio masters:

http://blogs.battlefield.com/2010/01/an_audiophile_s_guide_to_bf_bc2_full/

They briefly touch on the volume thing - but basically you don't need to have a real-life dynamic range in games just for good sound.

This is the point I was trying to make - we can't replicate real-life dynamic range, but we can try to simulate it using techniques like ducking (as used by DICE). This might not be currently possible, but it could be if the BI devs wanted to. I guess we can hope, right? :p

Edit: Here's an example of using ducking in Arma 3. It's pretty easy to put together in any sound editing program (warning - loud):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32155801/Arma%203/Arma%20Sound%20Limiter.wav

The first sound is vanilla Arma, the 2nd is with ducking (the MX sounds are lowered in volume, to bring the grenade sound to the front). The effect is subtle (and easily adjustable - amount of reduction, threshold, etc), but you can hear it.

Edited December 30, 2014 by MisterGoodson

[laxemann 1673]

Sooo, a quickie before new year!

This is the current state of the Gau-8 impacts:

This one was a difficult one.

It may differ from what you're used to hear in videos, but keep in mind that every single Gau-8 hit basically is a grenade impact - LOUD!

All the videos out there just show crappy cameras and even not so crappy cameras that can't really handle the sound. And you have no low-end because of that.

So I tried to get a nice compromise between that "typical crunching" you're hearing in the videos and having a proper low-end (bass).

And yes, the A-10 has the vanilla sounds aswell as the Gau-8 itself.

Have a good one! :)

[jumpinghubert 48]

the gau sounds perfect! And why? Because you think about the recording circumstances of the sources. Whats your soundequipment? Headphones? Wich ones?

[serjames 357]

no no that sounds really good !!!

Impacts on the ground are spot on... is it capturing the 4000 Rpm though ? Looks not ?

[megagoth1702 251]

no no that sounds really good !!!

Impacts on the ground are spot on... is it capturing the 4000 Rpm though ? Looks not ?

Not really doable. The impacts are not one for each round but rather quick "burst of impacts" sounds, listen carefully, you hear a single "crkkk" here and there after the main burst. These are single ricochets that hit the ground some time later. In arma it's not possible/not practical to have 70 little explosions happen per second and still expect it to sound good. I did something similiar back in the days for DCS: A-10 in 2011.

[laxemann 1673]

Yup, what mega said, every single impact sound is a bit longer sample of "chrrrring" :D

A "single impact" may sound a bit unnatural because of that, but let's be honest, you don't fire a Gau-8 for a single impact... mwahaha :D

[goomer 10]

I like where this is going.

[megagoth1702 251]

@Ducking in arma3. Using arma 3's limiter we can get some ducking BUT to get good sounding results with it... Meh. Not now. :p

[laxemann 1673]

@Ducking in arma3. Using arma 3's limiter we can get some ducking BUT to get good sounding results with it... Meh. Not now. :p

Shit dude, you gotta show me the magic in the new year! :

Couldn't find the EQs and Limiter yet

[Gudsawn 93]

@Megagoth That's actually not all that bad. How on earth did you do that you wizard? I didn't even know we had access to the limiter :p

[megagoth1702 251]

The limiter is always active. ALWAYS. When volume of played samples goes over 0dB it limits. So all I did was a simple, stupid hack. Volume value is set to 70 instead of 1. ;) So according to this nice website:

http://www.redwirez.com/pcalc.jsp

It' supposed to be played about 16dB louder than the normal sample. Which means the limiter kicks in and turns everythng down. BUT since we don't have access to the limiter itself, we can not change "attack" and "release" values, which results in crackling sound, as you can hear. It's ugly and I don't think I'll ever use it for real. :p There are so many good games out there without any limiters that still sound great which is why I will stay away from it. :p

[panimala 25]

Those GAU impact sounds sound spot on, LAxemann. Nice job. :)

And great example of HDR usage megagoth1702. Very promising for the future of HDR sound in Arma.