Still horrible tank controls

[roguetrooper 2]

Being a player commander in a tank with AI crew is still horrible.

1. The AI gunner moves the turret randomly around. There must be a way to force the AI gunner to turn and hold the turret/cannon into a definable direction. It is almost impossible to come out of cover with the cannon already pointing into a certain direction.

2. Why can't the AI driver drive the tank as if a player was driving it? When he gets the order to drive at full speed backward - then just the heck do it. Just drive into the direction you are ordered. Even if there is a wooden shack or mesh fence or even a bush or pebble!

Why is it impossible to implement such things?

[thedudeabides 40]

People have been asking about path finding by the AI since OFP. But hey at least we have karts right?

[Jona33 51]

People have been asking about path finding by the AI since OFP. But hey at least we have karts right?

Because 3D modellers and AI programmers are completely interchangeable!

Though I do agree with the OP, AI in armour is just painful to watch. Especially as commander.

[Hud Dorph 22]

Its sad that the reverse driving by ai-driver in tanks have never been fixed, its been bugged for as long as i can remember.

[roguetrooper 2]

AI driver under AI commander... mkey.

But why is it absolutely impossible to make an AI driver steer the tank as if a player was pressing a key (forward, backward etc)? When the player commander switches to the driver's position, the tank also just moves backwards as longs as he presses the key, no matter whether there's a pebble, a big rock, a house or a cliff. I really don't understand why the 3d model (with AI driver in it) can't move as if a player was pressing a key.

[kremator 1065]

I sat yesterday watching an AI controlled tank bash repeatedly into a wall of a house. AI driving is a complete joke!

[froggyluv 2136]

1. The AI gunner moves the turret randomly around. There must be a way to force the AI gunner to turn and hold the turret/cannon into a definable direction. It is almost impossible to come out of cover with the cannon already pointing into a certain direction.

Watch Direction command?

[Greenfist 1863]

AI driving is a complete joke!

But a funny one at times!

Last night, me and my AI buddies found a hunter at a gas station. I told one guy to take the wheel and follow the team. A moment later I start hearing that car bumping sound repeatedly behind me:

He was trying turn the car around by going back and forth an inch at a time. This is where he gave up.

That driver went on to become

.

[roguetrooper 2]

Watch Direction command?

Only partially useful and not exactly what I'm aiming at. There doesn't seem to be a way to keep the turret directed 'forward', i.e. always directed to where the tank is driving (in narrow streets AI gunners fumble headlessly around and make the cannon stuck in things).

[silentghoust 132]

It sounds more like you simply want full single player controls rather then having to work as a crew. Depending on what I'm doing generally ill just swap around each crew position for best results. If I need to make fast tactical positions and remain at gunner/commander I'll use the "forward, slow, fast" commands to maneuver, otherwise I'll just move order a position on the map and the driver gets me were I want. If I'm stuck as a commander, you can Alt+click order your gunner to watch a sector. After that point, any finer adjustments within your own site generally just requires you to right click to target.

There is also a couple conditions that will make a gunner forward face, granted he isn't scanned from squad reported targets.

1. At cruising speed, the gunner will forward face.

2. If "turned out" the gunner will forward face, assuming he has a turned out position.

[OMAC 254]

If I'm stuck as a commander, you can Alt+click order your gunner to watch a sector. .

I've never heard about this alt+click command, and it doesn't make my gunner watch a sector. Did you make custom key binds? Please explain how you get this to work.

However, and now this is very, very strange, I placed a Slammer UP in the editor with me as commander. I started mission and opened map, and then used Alt+click on a point, and it instantly transported the vehicle there. This is extremely odd. This insta-transport works if you are in any vehicle, even a chopper, and also works if you're not in a vehicle. :confused:

The alt-click insta-transport can be very useful when editing and testing missions, but it is a HUGE EXPLOIT that cheaters can use to great effect.

Edit: the insta-transport only occurs when you are playing a mission in the editor. I wish I had known about this feature before...

Edited November 18, 2014 by OMAC

[Greenfist 1863]

I've never heard about this alt+click command, and it doesn't make my gunner watch a sector. Did you make custom key binds? Please explain how you get this to work.

However, and now this is very, very strange, I placed a Slammer UP in the editor with me as commander. I started mission and opened map, and then used Alt+click on a point, and it instantly transported the vehicle there. This is extremely odd. This insta-transport works if you are in any vehicle, even a chopper, and also works if you're not in a vehicle. :confused:

The alt-click insta-transport can be very useful when editing and testing missions, but it is a HUGE EXPLOIT that cheaters can use to great effect.

Edit: the insta-transport only occurs when you are playing a mission in the editor. I wish I had known about this feature before...

Goddammit. I can't believe that during the hundreds of hours I've spent in the editor, I've never even accidentally Alt-clicked on the map. :mad: I've always used the splendid cam or onmapsingleclick event to teleport around. Thanks for the tip, I guess.

To make your subordinate to watch a spot, select him with the function keys, hold Alt, and the command menu shows a "Watch there" command. In Arma 2 (or was it 1?) you could make him watch a compass bearing but in Arma 3 you can only target an object or ground coordinates. So the bearing changes when you move.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Greenfist

[OMAC 254]

^ ^ Yep, I also was amazed about the insta-transport capability in the editor, and maddened that I had not known about it before. I'm just finishing up my first Arma 3 mission, and that feature would have saved me lots of time. This feature does not exist in A2. ARGH! The first time you open the A3 editor, there should have been a pop-up message explaining new features such as that.

Thanks for the info about the "Watch there" command. I've never used that after all these years in Arma. I've gotten away with "Watch direction"....

----

Edit: Wow, the Alt-"Watch there" option works great and should be very useful. However, knowing about the use of Alt key for commanding raises the ugly issue of the frustratingly inoperative "Supressive Fire" command. I won't bother getting into that, as there is at least one other recent thread ranting about it. :-(

Edited November 18, 2014 by OMAC

[andersson 285]

There are a lot of undocumented features. I didn't know about that alt-feature. I also remember that there was a key combo to skip briefing in MP editor, but what it is I can't remember, or maybe it doesn't work in A3..?

And I miss the tank controls from OFP.

[OMAC 254]

I was equally amazed when, years ago in A2 (and TKOH), I first found out about the undocumented (or hidden) Shift-click map function which creates a visible waypoint. That one really is an exploit.

Edited November 18, 2014 by OMAC

[spanishsurfer 58]

Agreed with OP that tanks need some love. Currently they do not:

1. Go backwards when ordered to.

2. Launch a smoke screen when under fire from a missile (if you're manning the gun/driving)

3. Show targets any more on the radar; before it was overpowered and it showed all targets 360° around the tank but rather than showing targets in a 120° vision in front of the tank BIS just turned off the radar feature. WTF?

4. Drive on roads even when combat stance is set to a non combat awareness

5. Engage targets at ranges > 1.5km (I can tell them to target the vehicle but they won't fire unless I take over the gunners seat or commanders seat and fire or order the firing).

6. Give the player to manually change gears (it's better than vanilla Arma 2 but they still suck at going uphill)

7. Give us the ability to turn off the engine and still operate the turret. Most tanks have a separate motor for this operation.

8. Have modern countermeasures such as the TROPHY system (which Zerty successfully scripted into our BECTI mission).

and related to armor....we need an effective SAM system. Why do the default tracked anti-air platforms have the effective range of a rifle!? Right now they lack lethality to attack aircraft and are in desperate need of some fangs.

[silentghoust 132]

Agreed with OP that tanks need some love. Currently they do not:

1. Go backwards when ordered to.

2. Launch a smoke screen when under fire from a missile (if you're manning the gun/driving)

3. Show targets any more on the radar; before it was overpowered and it showed all targets 360° around the tank but rather than showing targets in a 120° vision in front of the tank BIS just turned off the radar feature. WTF?

4. Drive on roads even when combat stance is set to a non combat awareness

5. Engage targets at ranges > 1.5km (I can tell them to target the vehicle but they won't fire unless I take over the gunners seat or commanders seat and fire or order the firing).

6. Give the player to manually change gears (it's better than vanilla Arma 2 but they still suck at going uphill)

7. Give us the ability to turn off the engine and still operate the turret. Most tanks have a separate motor for this operation.

8. Have modern countermeasures such as the TROPHY system (which Zerty successfully scripted into our BECTI mission).

and related to armor....we need an effective SAM system. Why do the default tracked anti-air platforms have the effective range of a rifle!? Right now they lack lethality to attack aircraft and are in desperate need of some fangs.

1. I'm very surprised BIS hasn't fixed this, it DID work at one time.

2. most AI mods will do this now, however the main purpose of smoke canister on vehicles is to provide cover rather its for maneuvers, not distract missiles.

3. MBT even the real life versions of Arma 3 MBT's don't have built in radar, honestly don't see the issue with this due the fact the Arma radar is pretty cheesy.

4. I'm sure that could be adjusted although I don't exactly see why it would be. I'm pretty sure any tank crew would not want to be on a open road during combat.

5. Probably never going to happen

7. I can see why you want this, but considering a secondary motor controlling the turret would just produce the same amount of heat and noise.

8. Yes, the trophy system that blows up my RPG round if I'm within 50ms magicly. Jokes aside, having a more realistic vehicle damage system overall would be awesome.

As for your AA static, have you considered messing with the ranges in the config? AALong are defaulted at 4km range(The ones used in Static, and tank AA launchers). Why portable is at 3km. The current ATGM's can engage max of at 9km.

[spanishsurfer 58]

1. I'm very surprised BIS hasn't fixed this, it DID work at one time.

2. most AI mods will do this now, however the main purpose of smoke canister on vehicles is to provide cover rather its for maneuvers, not distract missiles.

3. MBT even the real life versions of Arma 3 MBT's don't have built in radar, honestly don't see the issue with this due the fact the Arma radar is pretty cheesy.

4. I'm sure that could be adjusted although I don't exactly see why it would be. I'm pretty sure any tank crew would not want to be on a open road during combat.

5. Probably never going to happen

7. I can see why you want this, but considering a secondary motor controlling the turret would just produce the same amount of heat and noise.

8. Yes, the trophy system that blows up my RPG round if I'm within 50ms magicly. Jokes aside, having a more realistic vehicle damage system overall would be awesome.

As for your AA static, have you considered messing with the ranges in the config? AALong are defaulted at 4km range(The ones used in Static, and tank AA launchers). Why portable is at 3km. The current ATGM's can engage max of at 9km.

1. Have you not played Arma 3?

2. Mods are not the fix, just the bandaid

3. Millimeter band RADAR system

4. If you set the combat level to "safe" they should drive on roads, period.

5. Agree with you on this, but it's still an issue.

7. No, it doesn't.

8. Trophy System: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure) and yes a realistic damage system is another bullet point.

[OMAC 254]

... a realistic damage system is another bullet point.

This is key. Iron Front Liberation 1944, built on A2 engine, had redesigned tank damage and armor systems which were fantastic and made armored combat 100% more realistic and fun. You really had to consider which part of a tank target to shoot at, and at which angle (this is true to a minor extent in A3 for tanks, but is nowhere near as much of a factor as it was in IFL44). Depending on where you hit, some parts would fly off. Such a system is desperately needed in A3 (or A4 :rolleyes:).

It worried me when BI started emphasizing that A3 was an "infantry-focused" game. Why say that? So they can slack off on vehicle development other than choppers for heli DLC? And then I found that the East Wind campaign contained no vehicle combat whatsoever. :mad:

Edited November 19, 2014 by OMAC