sudayev 27 Posted March 3, 2015 Haha, he pretty much looks like this fella Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
astral4eg 10 Posted March 5, 2015 Haha, he pretty much looks like this fella Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sub-Human 10 Posted March 6, 2015 More history revision from Putin: (Moscow Times) Russia's Gulag Museum Shuts Doors Amid Mounting State Pressure Perm-36 — the only museum in Russia created on the site of a former gulag camp — is "ceasing its activities and beginning the process of self-liquidation," the museum said in a statement Monday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 477 Posted March 6, 2015 More history revision from Putin:(Moscow Times) Russia's Gulag Museum Shuts Doors Amid Mounting State Pressure important news, thanx for reporting about it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orcinus 121 Posted March 6, 2015 BBC reports that Navalny is out of prison (and talking tough). I hope he is being extraordinarily careful.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted March 6, 2015 More history revision from Putin:(Moscow Times) Russia's Gulag Museum Shuts Doors Amid Mounting State Pressure The Gulags and other shameful spots on the map of Russia are ovious obstacles for the Putin's regime on their way to re-write the history in more favorable way. They need to revise the history and territory in order to regain the lost power and wash away the guilt for wasting over 50 million human lives during the communism era (that is more than what Germany "achieved" during the Hitler's rule). In future years, funds will be cut entirely and place will fall into ruin. On the other hand this is not surprising me, in this country everything is possible. So who knows, maybe they will be renovating this place for "new arrivals"? @vilas Here's a study of Russian revisionism by OSW. Lenghy but worthy read. PL/ENG publication. http://www.osw.waw.pl/sites/default/files/prace_33.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) (Moscow Times) Russia's Gulag Museum Shuts Doors Amid Mounting State Pressure What a shame.... Someone did a translation of the interviews and content in the case about the Gulag Museum: Essentially, there is no confirmation regarding the claim that references to Stalin's crimes have been removed or that the museum is being converted into a memorial devoted to GULAG officials as claimed by another official. It seems there was a conflict between the non-profit society Perm-36 which was running the camp-site exclusively as a museum for political repression and the Perm provincial administration which was providing the funding and which wanted the camp-site to take on a wider variety of thematic exhibitions. When an agreement could not be reached, Perm-36 decided to disband, and the provincial administration was left holding the bag. As of now, it would appear the provincial administration and Perm-36 are still engaged in talks regarding the status of some property as well archival material and the possibility of some collaborative effort between the non-profit society and government has not been entirely ruled out. The fact the new administration of the museum plans to hold an exhibition on Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn would seem to belie claims that the camp-site will be turned into a memorial for GULAG officials, as the Perm-36 spokesperson claimed. However, it is also true that the local officials have also apparently responded to complaints made by former guards and guards representatives that their story should also be included and that the non-profit society only focused on the prisoners. Furthermore, a government spokesperson has apparently floated the idea of turning the site into a memorial for all victims of repression in Russia, from the time of Boris Godunov to the Soviet era. http://59.ru/text/news/899247-print.html (05.03.2015) more of the translation here: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2998115&postcount=80 Edited March 6, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sub-Human 10 Posted March 7, 2015 What a shame....Someone did a translation of the interviews and content in the case about the Gulag Museum: Essentially, there is no confirmation regarding the claim that references to Stalin's crimes have been removed or that the museum is being converted into a memorial devoted to GULAG officials as claimed by another official. It seems there was a conflict between the non-profit society Perm-36 which was running the camp-site exclusively as a museum for political repression and the Perm provincial administration which was providing the funding and which wanted the camp-site to take on a wider variety of thematic exhibitions. When an agreement could not be reached, Perm-36 decided to disband, and the provincial administration was left holding the bag. As of now, it would appear the provincial administration and Perm-36 are still engaged in talks regarding the status of some property as well archival material and the possibility of some collaborative effort between the non-profit society and government has not been entirely ruled out. The fact the new administration of the museum plans to hold an exhibition on Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn would seem to belie claims that the camp-site will be turned into a memorial for GULAG officials, as the Perm-36 spokesperson claimed. However, it is also true that the local officials have also apparently responded to complaints made by former guards and guards representatives that their story should also be included and that the non-profit society only focused on the prisoners. Furthermore, a government spokesperson has apparently floated the idea of turning the site into a memorial for all victims of repression in Russia, from the time of Boris Godunov to the Soviet era. http://59.ru/text/news/899247-print.html (05.03.2015) more of the translation here: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2998115&postcount=80 In that same city, Perm, there was another memorial dedicated to the prisoners of the Gulag system, in the form of a monument with the inscription 'For the repressed' or something along those lines. The prison still stands and perhaps operational, but not too long ago they did remove or replace this monument leaving only the inscription 'For the memory of the guards'. So it's not the first time there has been history revision. Perm was the gateway to Siberia and its camps and naturally should be a historical object for Stalinist repressions. Ironically enough, the administration of Perm claimed it was the cultural capital of Europe. Nobody here took it seriously of course, but to so blatantly remove its historical significance? A shame indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 477 Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) changing history is first way to change and shape minds of voters, long time ago - i gave example about other issue (religious teaching), that if someone would be taugh in veterinary university that cows suffer because of UFO saucers, than instead of helping animals, vets would be buying radars to detect UFO, changing historical knowledge of Russian is to set more and more nationalistic course of Russia and that Putin will be voted by youth who have false version of history (already here on this forum we have read from Russians that there was no such thing like Russification in occupated areas, from other Russians we heard that small countries were attacking Russia/USSR not vice versa) and if Putin will stay in Rule in 2030 young 20-years old Russians will know that "Poland, Finland and Lithuanian attacked us and set concentration camps for Russians, so we have to attack them" it will only cause problem for upcoming generations knowledge, because of brain washing - for example you cannot talk to North Koreans - they are shaped that world around is pure evil, they are someone superb and they suffer because everyone around want to hurt them and only their leaders care about them to be greatest in the world... Edited March 7, 2015 by vilas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted March 7, 2015 Excuse me but from what I see here and at some other foreign forums the anti-Russian brainwashing aimed at erasing all the atrocities suffered by USSR during fighting with Reich and exchanging Reich and USSR is going like that in Best Korea since early 90's. The more it goes - the more often people speak that Russia must be punished for its 'crimes' (well TBH I am against liberation of Eastern Europe and suppose it should be left to Reich, and every attempt to attack our territory from nearby country should have been repelled with carpet bombings and massive arty strikes no matter of casualties - just like Dresden one) and give some cash. I would not be surprised that in recent future those countries, filled with blatant russophobic propaganda will perform some 'preventive strike'. They are already being filled with speculations about Russian invasion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1317 Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) 'preventive strike' That would be politically and strategically extremely stupid idea for various reasons. Suicidal. But no, worries of that part of them, who takes serious such possibility, are focused on the ways of possible defense, didn't heard anyone so lunatic to consider such idiocy like actual attacking Russia with it's size, military potential and nuclear capacity. Bah. No one, I heard of, would want it really. Why? What for? All of them want Russia just go home and calmly stay there, like any other stable and normal country. Soft&plush EU just want to make money with Russia again, dreams in tears in her eyes about the moment, when sactions could be fairly removed. Also no one sane, I heard of negates sacrifices, USSR people made in the WWII. What they point out is current Russia's tendency to narrow whole picture to only that aspect and enlarging it, while silenting/negating dark, dark parts, which in total gives false perspective of WWII history and USSR role in it. As any well made propaganda, Russia's history engineering/revisionism manipulates rather biased and selectively chosen truth and facts to shape false wide picture, only rarely uses plain lies. That makes it more effective, believeable and resistant to polemics. Edited March 7, 2015 by Rydygier Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Premtive stike??? Says who? Zhirinovsky. Just a gum flapping that is all. Seriously there's too much of this man in the Russian media thus most of the people believe in the story of how mighty their country is, without realizing the severity of consequences of aggressive actions - like invading other sovereign countries. Typical shortsightedness and lack of insight. Wonder if anyone calculates domestic support after seeing dead bodies going back to country? Just like in Donbas, for what sake these people had to die. Today there are no Russian mother proud of their sons who died in "weird war" for quasi-state of DNR. Fact is - Russia's weak economically, resources dependant and doesn't have any allies who support the vision of "liberation". I'm pretty sure, China is like a crouching tiger with good memory and Putin knows about that. http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1356,title,Doradca-szefa-MSW-Ukrainy-Moskwa-grozi-atakiem-na-Kijow,wid,17322116,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=114777 Just like here. Attack on Kiev? Can Russia really afford waging an open conflict on their own? Occupying Ukraine and struggling with Ukrainian guerilla? Everyone knows the outcome of Afghanistan, waging a war against Afghani mujahedins led to final decay of the communist regime. Edited March 8, 2015 by Sudayev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 477 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) if Russians believe that smaller countries gonna attack Russia - they must be seriously brainwashed by propaganda, if they believe that Lithuania or Estonia will attack Russia, they must be insane, Russians will believe in any crazy shit created by Putin it seems, if Putin will say "Lithuanian attacked us" they will go and bomb Lithuania believing in what TV said, no matter that Lithuanian forces are few times smaller than Belgium or Dutch Edited March 8, 2015 by vilas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) if Russians believe that smaller countries gonna attack Russia - they must be seriously brainwashed by propaganda, if they believe that Lithuania or Estonia will attack Russia, they must be insane, Russians will believe in any crazy shit created by Putin it seems, if Putin will say "Lithuanian attacked us" they will go and bomb Lithuania believing in what TV said, no matter that Lithuanian forces are few times smaller than Belgium or Dutch Didn't Russians believed that Georgia attacked Russia? And that Georgians were also "nazis/fascist" that murdered the Ossetians and the Abkhazians? Same story as in Ukraine... and the same can be applied to any other country. On the Georgian front: (WND) Russia preparing 'final assault' to take back Georgia “Russia might be preparing for a final assault on Georgia which certainly may include overt military pressure,†said Vasil Rukhadze of the Washington, D.C.-based think-tank Jamestown Foundation.One of the reasons Russian President Vladimir Putin is looking critically at Georgia is that it has sought to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO, and continues to seek membership despite Kremlin warnings. Putin’s moves into Ukraine and now the threats toward Georgia are to maintain a buffer between the NATO countries and the Russian Federation. Putin has been critical of NATO’s “eastward expansion,†such as in the Baltic countries of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, where a significant number of ethnic Russians reside. There also are mounting concerns that Moscow has targeted Estonia, because of its weak economy and political uncertainty, to force the country, along with the entire Baltic to leave NATO and rejoin its Eurasian Union. ( Agenda Georgia ) Georgia slams Russia’s military exercises on Georgian occupied land Official Tbilisi is expressing "extreme concern†after Russian military held joint training exercises in Georgia’s occupied Abkhazia and Tskhinvali (South Ossetia) regions.Georgian Foreign Ministry said it strongly condemned yesterday’s military training exercises, hosted by the Russian Federation on Georgia’s occupied land. Yesterday afternoon the Russian side publically announced 2,000 soldiers and 500 units of military equipment were involved in the field exercises. It noted the Russian Army had launched simultaneous field exercises on 12 firing ranges in the Russian Federation's Southern Military District and in Georgia's occupied regions of Tskhinvali (South Ossetia) and Abkhazia. "Different military units, including divisions of air defence are carrying out large-scale exercises in the use of various artillery systems,†stated Georgia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs based on information released by the Russian’s Edited March 8, 2015 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
astral4eg 10 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) changing history is first way to change and shape minds of voters I am surprised by people who were never in Russia and get information about Russia only from the western media, and mistakenly think that they know better than me what's going on in my country .... about rewriting history: gist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lng1FFJesYU source if Russians believe that smaller countries gonna attack Russia - they must be seriously brainwashed by propaganda Didn't Russians believed that Georgia attacked Russia? And that Georgians were also "nazis/fascist" that murdered the Ossetians and the Abkhazians? Yes, the Russian not only believe but know that Georgia attacked South Ossetia. Mad Georgian prizedent Saakoshvilli with the support of NATO and the US decided to force append rebel region, probably he was thinking that Russia will be stand aside as it was with Yugoslavia. =============== On the Georgian front: (WND) Russia preparing 'final assault' to take back Georgia Edited March 8, 2015 by astral4eg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted March 8, 2015 I am surprised by people who were never in Russia and get information about Russia only from the western media, and mistakenly think that they know better than me what's going on in my country .... So what, Putin isn't rewriting Russian history ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted March 8, 2015 So what, Putin isn't rewriting Russian history ? This reminds me of the first time I read 1984. I was very suprised to find so many elements which were familiar to me and stuff that only got to the public after the fall of the soviet union. And that from a book written in 1949 by an english writer. So it is very possible that people outside of a country will know better about it then the people living there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sub-Human 10 Posted March 8, 2015 Astral4eg, does it ever bother you, that your dear leader Putin has made referendums in his home country illegal but is an active defender of independence movements in other countries? How many referendums have taken place on the territory of Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
St. Jimmy 272 Posted March 8, 2015 if Russians believe that smaller countries gonna attack Russia - they must be seriously brainwashed by propaganda, if they believe that Lithuania or Estonia will attack Russia, they must be insane, Russians will believe in any crazy shit created by Putin it seems, if Putin will say "Lithuanian attacked us" they will go and bomb Lithuania believing in what TV said, no matter that Lithuanian forces are few times smaller than Belgium or Dutch It's more like they believe NATO attacks through those countries and they need to liberate those countries from Western influence. It's not good to have big US influence near Russian borders or they might get angry... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted March 8, 2015 I am surprised by people who were never in Russia and get information about Russia only from the western media, and mistakenly think that they know better than me what's going on in my country .... You heard them man, you morons! Stop watching your rotten capitalist TV and internet and listen to what they say in Russia, cuz you don't know shit about it. RT, Pravda, Sputinik TV, Channel 1, Rossiya 1 Komsomolskaya Pravda and Moskovsky Komsomolets - this is the source of the truth. THE OFFICIAL AND UNBIASED TRUTH. Otherwise you're not entitled to say anything in this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
astral4eg 10 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) So what, Putin isn't rewriting Russian history ? Explain to me please why you have such unhealthy interest in Putin? What exactly in the history rewrites Putin? ---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ---------- Astral4eg, does it ever bother you, that your dear leader Putin has made referendums in his home country illegal but is an active defender of independence movements in other countries? How many referendums have taken place on the territory of Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union? A referendum on the sovereignty of Tatarstan - a referendum on the sovereignty of the Republic of Tatarstan, was part of the Russian Federation as the subject. Held March 21, 1992. The result of the referendum was the proclamation of the state sovereignty of the Republic. Edited March 8, 2015 by astral4eg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Explain to me please why you have such unhealthy interest in Putin? Since Putin has an unhealthy tendency to think that its neighbours soil is Russian soil. What exactly in the history rewrites Putin ? 2 seconds search on Google we'll show you enough references. I'll leave you with this one : Putin accused of Soviet tactics in drafting new history book Edited March 8, 2015 by ProfTournesol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted March 8, 2015 From the latest news. Former Soviet Gulag changes it's format. There will absolutely NO MARTYRDOM anymore. From now on the exhibition inside the former camp will be dedicated to explain how soviet penal system functioned and under how terrible condition prison guards had to work to keep those "enemies" of the state in line. No more slapping of Joseph Stalin and no more blaming of the Soviet Union for all the misery, let's simply forget about 50 millions. Time for the brave new world. Imagine this in Germany. Dachau camp. No more holocaust, jewry and martyrdom. Because how long you will be blaming the most richest and influential nation of Europe? Instead - hard working conditions and misery of the SS-Totenkopf guards. Sweet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
astral4eg 10 Posted March 8, 2015 Since Putin has an unhealthy tendency to think that its neighbours soil is Russian soil.2 seconds search on Google we'll show you enough references. I'll leave you with this one : Putin accused of Soviet tactics in drafting new history book And? You tried to read more title? What exactly changed in history? But the fact that said Yatseniuk on German TV about what the Soviet Union invaded the Ukraine and Germany in WW2 I think it "is not normal"... What is interesting about of this statement were indignant only in Russia, in the west have pretended that everything is fine... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted March 8, 2015 And? You tried to read more title? What exactly changed in history?But the fact that said Yatseniuk on German TV about what the Soviet Union invaded the Ukraine and Germany in WW2 I think it "is not normal"... What is interesting about of this statement were indignant only in Russia, in the west have pretended that everything is fine... Well, the problem is that in Russia you have glorified the Soviet soldiers of WW2 (and Stalin to some extend) to eternal heroes. I don´t dispute that the Soviet soldiers were good fighters and that they had to be brave to do what they did, but the common Russian completely ignores (or doesn´t know about) everything that came in the wake of the Red Army. Looting, pillaging, raping, deportations, mass executions. Then add to that the more than 40 years of harsh occupation, political, economical and cultural repression east europe had to endure. What Putin is doing now is erasing all those bad episodes from the Russian history books. That is bad. How will you prevent to repeat the misstakes of the past if you don´t know about them? How are you going to make your society more self concious (obviously Putin doesn´t want that) if you erase everything bad from their past? The only thing Putin can accomplish with his politics is a false sense of pride and an increase of nationalism and imperialism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
