Why America is NOT the greatest country in the world, any-more.

[Tonci87 163]

But we should be more angry with out own government. It's called "NSA Scandal" but the truth is that BND, MAD and Verfassungschutz use the same crooky techniques and shady methods as NSA, CIA, Homeland Security, British GCHQ and every other intelligence agency of the "Free World". That's probably one reason why our government tries to derail the parliament's NSA commission whereever possible. And to be fair with the two governing parties having the effective majority in the parliament the seperation of powers is de facto non-existent. They can do anything they want but why should we bother? I mean "Deutschland geht es gut und das ist ein Grund zur Freude", right? xX

Not in the way that was discussed in the beginning of this thread. Within the last twenty years things like patriotism were slowly growing but I doubt we're nationalistic. That doesn't mean we have problems. Behind closed doors subtle racism, prejudice and fear / hatred towards foreigners and refugees is sadly a common thing among certain parts of society. (Believe me, I've had first hand experience.) Some politicians even do that in public. *Cough* CSU *Cough*

Yes, our government acts opportunisitc and selfish. I'm not surprised that we offered loans to Greece and at the same time told them to spend the money on German products (submarines FPDR). And then the mass media comes and says "the Greek people are taking our valuable tax money", Germans are furious at the Greek, how they can do that? Greedy Greeks! (Well, they somehow had it coming with their own problems regarding corruption and not paying taxes.) But as long as too many Germans are happy with their government (I'm not) nothing will change and we will continue ripping off other countries, just like our friends (or was it the big brohter) overseas.

^this

[bonchie 39]

Not in the way that was discussed in the beginning of this thread. Within the last twenty years things like patriotism were slowly growing but I doubt we're nationalistic..

The beginning of the thread was very convoluted. A lot of people making lots of charges to sift through, so I'm not exactly sure what was being charged initially.

If we want to use the actual definition of nationalistic, then Germany absolutely is. They are some of the most proud and nationalistic people on earth toward their country. But so are the British, Chinese, and Swiss. Pretty much every country has majorities of people who are "patriotic" and think their country is the best. And every country has people like you who look behind the veil. In the US they are typically libertarians.

But I promise all of you, US citizens are not walking around singing how great we are. If you've ever been here you'd see that. As I said, most of our media is extremely self-deprecating and most of our citizens see a lot of room for improvement among all issues.

[holoween 10]

They are some of the most proud and nationalistic people on earth toward their country.

this is absolute bullshit.

they are if anything the least nationalistic.

in 2006 there was actually a discussion if its ok to wave a german flag on the football world championship. thats how nationalistic it is.

[oxmox 73]

The beginning of the thread was very convoluted. A lot of people making lots of charges to sift through, so I'm not exactly sure what was being charged initially.

If we want to use the actual definition of nationalistic, then Germany absolutely is. They are some of the most proud and nationalistic people on earth toward their country. But so are the British, Chinese, and Swiss. Pretty much every country has majorities of people who are "patriotic" and think their country is the best. And every country has people like you who look behind the veil. In the US they are typically libertarians.

But I promise all of you, US citizens are not walking around singing how great we are. If you've ever been here you'd see that. As I said, most of our media is extremely self-deprecating and most of our citizens see a lot of room for improvement among all issues.

Travelling in different continents showed me one thing you would probably not believe. The country has actually the most unhealthy relationship to its citizen in the world when it comes to natural patriotism and the reasons should be obvious. Iam not sure from where you get your information defining Germany even with nationalism, but the country suffers and struggles with its own identity since decades.

During the travels I noticed two different kind of natural patriotism, either people purely loved their country with an open heart or they had a tense proudness. Actually I was more impressed with the first type.

Edited November 8, 2014 by oxmox

[bonchie 39]

this is absolute bullshit.

they are if anything the least nationalistic.

in 2006 there was actually a discussion if its ok to wave a german flag on the football world championship. thats how nationalistic it is.

Dude, it's not 2006 anymore.

If you want to argue there was not a nationalistic fever among Germans in 2010 and 2014 at the World Cup, you'd have a hard time making that case.

The past decade of economic growth and EU dominance has changed a lot.

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

Travelling in different continents showed me one thing you would probably not believe. The country has actually the most unhealthy relationship to its citizen in the world when it comes to natural patriotism and the reasons should be obvious. Iam not sure from where you get your information defining Germany even with nationalism, but the country suffers and struggles with its own identity since decades.

During the travels I noticed two different kind of natural patriotism, either people purely loved their country with an open heart or they had a tense proudness. Actually I was more impressed with the first type.

I've been to five continents. I'm aware of other cultures.

[oxmox 73]

Dude, it's not 2006 anymore.

If you want to argue there was not a nationalistic fever among Germans in 2010 and 2014 at the World Cup, you'd have a hard time making that case.

The past decade of economic growth and EU dominance has changed a lot.

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

I've been to five continents. I'm aware of other cultures.

Well, since you are someone who saw probably several countries in the world on different continents. How do you come to the conclusion the definition of nationalism is especially described with the current Germany. Because I have never heard about this before, except when talking about history.

Edited November 8, 2014 by oxmox

[IndeedPete 1038]

The beginning of the thread was very convoluted. A lot of people making lots of charges to sift through, so I'm not exactly sure what was being charged initially.

If we want to use the actual definition of nationalistic, then Germany absolutely is. They are some of the most proud and nationalistic people on earth toward their country. But so are the British, Chinese, and Swiss. Pretty much every country has majorities of people who are "patriotic" and think their country is the best. And every country has people like you who look behind the veil. In the US they are typically libertarians.

But I promise all of you, US citizens are not walking around singing how great we are. If you've ever been here you'd see that. As I said, most of our media is extremely self-deprecating and most of our citizens see a lot of room for improvement among all issues.

Haven't been to the US yet but would love to visit someday. But I'm afraid the TSA would catch me and put me to Guantanamo. No, just kidding, I don't have the time nor the money right now to undertake a solid journey through the US (and Canada). And frankly, it's not my top priority anway, there are many other countries I want to see first. Maybe in a few years when I have enough resources or if my profession requries me to go there I'll do it.^^

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Guys, why not take a step back and stop falling for Walker's obvious troll?

[bonchie 39]

Haven't been to the US yet but would love to visit someday. But I'm afraid the TSA would catch me and put me to Guantanamo. No, just kidding, I don't have the time nor the money right now to undertake a solid journey through the US (and Canada). And frankly, it's not my top priority anway, there are many other countries I want to see first. Maybe in a few years when I have enough resources or if my profession requries me to go there I'll do it.^^

I don't blame you. If I was simply traveling, the US wouldn't be high on my list.

I find Asia and tropical areas much more interesting although I have a fondness for the western parts of the US. Beautiful country.

[mistyronin 1181]

Well, since you are someone who saw probably several countries in the world on different continents. How do you come to the conclusion the definition of nationalism is especially described with the current Germany. Because I have never heard about this before, except when talking about history.

Well, technically nationalism is the ideology that involves identifying yourself with your nation ( culture / ethnic group ) and usually to want it to rule over itself. An extremist view of that, is when you want it to rule not only over itself but over others ( you know vital space, and all that stuff ). That's why the word is derived from nation ( which is again a group of people with the same culture, not a physical place )

Patriotism is another concept, which is related to the latin patria, which has a more territorial meaning and not that much cultural. It means be proud of your country, even if it doesn't include the whole nation ( for example Germany ) or if it includes different nations inside ( like UK ).

Obviously as nationalism was one of the adjectives the NS-DAP used to call themselves ( as with other ideologies, the nazis believed in a extremely twisted version of nationalism ), nowadays it lost a bit of prestige, and some Govs use it wrongly to "insult" their opponents.

[IndeedPete 1038]

I don't blame you. If I was simply traveling, the US wouldn't be high on my list.

I find Asia and tropical areas much more interesting although I have a fondness for the western parts of the US. Beautiful country.

That's true. I feel like if I ever go to the US I had to do the classic American roadtrip cross country from East Coast to West Coast or vice versa. Takes some time though, and it doesn't make sense to just stop by for a few days or weeks like I tend to do with European countries, especially the ones in the neighbourhood. It's just hopping on a train or car and in a few hours you've crossed the first border. The States (as well as East Asia, South America or Australia) are not around the corner for me.^^

[instagoat 133]

What worries me most about the US is the terrible public perception of science. More than 40 % of people do not think that evolution is real, it is the origin and single most powerful funding source for global creationists (with answersingenesis being the heavyweight, their founder ken ham recently debated bill nye). There are extreme and frankly destructive policies being implemented in schools, from "teaching the alternative" to complete abolition of sex education and the move towards radicalized homeschooling concepts.

They nearly cancelled the james webb space telescope, and they catapulted the US out of high energy physics research by cancelling the large particle accelerator that was supposed to be -much- larger than the LHC here in the EU, thus much more capable.

There are US politicians who are openly calling for "standing up to the experts" (as in, scientists) who they claim promote immoral and life-denying atheism, they proclaim that the US is a christian nation, by christians for christians, despite the open anti-christianity displayed by many of the founding fathers, thomas jefferson in particular. Where they can, they will quotemine and cherrypick things these people said for their advantage, while censoring and redacting everything that goes contrary to their cause.

And the number above about how many americans take evolution for a real concept shows how successful they are. If the general public in the US is so illiterate about one of the most securely standing concepts in science, what about actual shaky things?

The US has been one of the powerhouses in western science development, and as a European I do not like the Idea of loosing such an asset to mankind to morons. We are in real trouble here, I believe... nevermind the economy, that's not a problem of the US alone, that is a problem of global capitalism and cannot be solved by one nation alone.

[Tonci87 163]

What worries me most about the US is the terrible public perception of science. More than 40 % of people do not think that evolution is real, it is the origin and single most powerful funding source for global creationists (with answersingenesis being the heavyweight, their founder ken ham recently debated bill nye). There are extreme and frankly destructive policies being implemented in schools, from "teaching the alternative" to complete abolition of sex education and the move towards radicalized homeschooling concepts.

They nearly cancelled the james webb space telescope, and they catapulted the US out of high energy physics research by cancelling the large particle accelerator that was supposed to be -much- larger than the LHC here in the EU, thus much more capable.

There are US politicians who are openly calling for "standing up to the experts" (as in, scientists) who they claim promote immoral and life-denying atheism, they proclaim that the US is a christian nation, by christians for christians, despite the open anti-christianity displayed by many of the founding fathers, thomas jefferson in particular. Where they can, they will quotemine and cherrypick things these people said for their advantage, while censoring and redacting everything that goes contrary to their cause.

And the number above about how many americans take evolution for a real concept shows how successful they are. If the general public in the US is so illiterate about one of the most securely standing concepts in science, what about actual shaky things?

The US has been one of the powerhouses in western science development, and as a European I do not like the Idea of loosing such an asset to mankind to morons. We are in real trouble here, I believe... nevermind the economy, that's not a problem of the US alone, that is a problem of global capitalism and cannot be solved by one nation alone.

Yeah sadly this.....

I mean just look at those people

[nodunit 397]

I'm more concerned with how this seems to have exploded on youtube.

/

It seems a bit far fetched but if some of those reasons she gave were true (such as the claw markings) then I have to say..impressive job to the design and marketting teams.

That said, ultimately, what does it matter if the drink is "promoting" the devil? How in a 'free' country is it any better to go putting angelic designs on things but its much worse to put the devil. I'm not speaking from a religious stand point, this is coming from the idea in separation of church and state including the marketting and all that, last I checked it wasn't against the law or immoral.

Meh I'll be honest, I hate the idea of our "christian" government, I believe religion has no place in our system and I don't care if it's gods word or anything like that, our founding fathers came to escape that mentality but also believed that people should have the right to practice whatever religion they so desire. Nothing disgusts me more than hearing a politician standing by christian values.

And an energy drink...of all things..an energy drink......

Edited November 13, 2014 by NodUnit

[x3kj 1247]

I consider energy drinks as work of "satan" too. But not because of the markings but because most of them are pure chemical crap :D

[slatts 1978]

Jaysis, with the amount of Monster I drink. No wonder I'm more irritable then usual :D

[Tonci87 163]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/29/american-exceptionalism_n_4170683.html

[lesscubes 1]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/29/american-exceptionalism_n_4170683.html

Those graphics had me riiiiight up until the Guns/People statistic. One point where traditional American and European logic tend to diverge. (HuffPost is generally pretty liberal, no surprise there.) But, most of that jives with what I know and see. I work at a small-ish business and get to see a whole lot of the logic of the Boss...

Opportunism is probably the greatest plague the US suffers from. The country has always rewarded people who strike out at opportunity. However, it's also rewarding people for gaming and exploiting the system. American Exceptionalism is responsible in equal parts for the greatness of the US and the failings of the US. Unscrupulous behavior is why I feel the income disparity is so bad, why the middle class is dying out, why the medical/insurance system is so broken.

The dangers of an open system, I'm afraid.

[sesdelta38 10]

Was the United States ever really the best country in the World? History seems to think otherwise...

Don't get me wrong, I love this country, but every American should be real with themselves.

[mistyronin 1181]

I want to know what this woman took to have such ideas...

But well, a few months ago a crazy woman followed me around the city here in Finland because there was a mini skull on my hoodie, and she was saying that it was the work of the Devil...

[Sooke 13]

I want to know what this woman took to have such ideas...

No idea but judging by some of the comments it's something easily accessible.

Maybe some sort of oxygen intolerance or something... :p

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sooke

[TheMightyKovacs 6]

Was the United States ever really the best country in the World? History seems to think otherwise...

Don't get me wrong, I love this country, but every American should be real with themselves.

I agree. I don't, nor have I, ever thought this is the best country. It's all subjective in reality.

[nodunit 397]

There may be some pride considering how hugely this country boomed considering its very young age in contrast to the rest of the world, but I always thought that "I am the greatest" was something that just about everyone felt for their country...or maybe that is just military equipment.

[Sooke 13]

There may be some pride considering how hugely this country boomed considering its very young age in contrast to the rest of the world.

You were also one of the main winner of the WWII.

Your subculture has directly or indirectly colonised the entire planet. Everybody knows what is McDonald, Coca-cola, Who's Brad Pitt or Kim Kardishian.

Even your enemies watch your movies and listen to your music.

When the entire planet is admiring/copying your lifestyle how can you not believe you're the greatest ?

But indeed "the greatest country in the world" makes little sense.

No doubt the US are the greatest country in the world...for some stuff and you might aswell be the worst for others. Just like any other nation.

I'd be surprised to hear the average Chinese, Indian, Russian,etc say otherwise about his own country.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sooke

[Nicholas 5]

There may be some pride considering how hugely this country boomed considering its very young age in contrast to the rest of the world, but I always thought that "I am the greatest" was something that just about everyone felt for their country...or maybe that is just military equipment.

You were also one of the main winner of the WWII.

Your subculture has directly or indirectly colonised the entire planet. Everybody knows what is McDonald, Coca-cola, Who's Brad Pitt or Kim Kardishian.

Even your enemies watch your movies and listen to your music.

When the entire planet is admiring/copying your lifestyle how can you not believe you're the greatest ?

You guys nailed it here.

I agree with you NodUnit that everyone should believe their own country is the greatest, as you said, it's called pride. There may be some things that the United States government does that people may not agree with, but they do great things as well.