Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[fluttershy 2]

I appreciate the license itself may not be enough to prevent A3L using it against my wishes.

May aim is rather to simplify understanding and recognition of any such violations by clearly stating that my addons may not be used in, for, by or with A3L in any format, etc.

Consider it my small way of raising awareness or making a personal stand, beyond the greater efforts already in progress.

You could try Multi-licensing under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivative License in conjunction plus the regular APL and your own "handwritten" License.

Though without any legal advisor, a handwritten license is somewhat hard to push trough in court. Though if you do not release a mod under any type of license, it is still released under your personal copyright.

[ianbanks 30]

I appreciate the license itself may not be enough to prevent A3L using it against my wishes.

May aim is rather to simplify understanding and recognition of any such violations by clearly stating that my addons may not be used in, for, by or with A3L in any format, etc.

Consider it my small way of raising awareness or making a personal stand, beyond the greater efforts already in progress.

This group isn't the first and certainly won't be the last.

You would be better working out licensing that excludes the activity (providing any benefit whatsoever from a donation, repackaging your mod, hosting your mod files on services other than Armaholic and Six Updater, placing it in custom launchers, and so on) rather than the group.

Even just limiting donations is not enough; server hosting companies have in the past cut secret royalty deals with "content aggregators" (thieves) to only allow popular game modes to be hosted on servers sold by them.

[PuFu 4591]

Is it possible to release my addons under one license for the general community but a more restrictive one (or fully prohibitive one) for A3L?

I'd like to do this in order to avoid "confusion" such as the CSE issue earlier. Obviously that wasn't simple enough for the A3L team to understand.

Yes you should be able to restrict it as you please. It is your license after all.

You can easily start from a CC license, and expand it as you please

[ProfTournesol 956]

Wouldn't this problem be solved if addon makers could encrypt their pbo files such as .ebo files from BIS DLC ? (i mean, for addons theft being modified by others).

Edited November 11, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[Dr_Defimus 10]

you can say that it is only alowed to download from your own site and if u use an verification so lauchers can't load it automacily from that site. So you can be shure that every thing that comes from anywhere else is iligal and can be dealt with.

[PuFu 4591]

Wouldn't this problem be solved if addon makers could encrypt their pbo files such as .ebo files from BIS DLC ?

doubtfully. i am all for further protection of content, but then again, if it is encrypted, it can also be decrypted. It doesn't change the fact that one can still use ones content in its form and monetize it. It also doesn't change the fact that one can port into arma illegal rips from other video games.

[ProfTournesol 956]

doubtfully. i am all for further protection of content, but then again, if it is encrypted, it can also be decrypted. It doesn't change the fact that one can still use ones content in its form and monetize it. It also doesn't change the fact that one can port into arma illegal rips from other video games.

Indeed, i edited my post to precise it would/could only protect against addons theft. You mean that if we've got a tool to encrypt in .ebo, we can also decrypt ? Wouldn't it be possible to encrypt without being able to extract/decrypt pbo/ebo files (even your own .pbo/ebo files ?).

[janus0104 3]

you can say that it is only alowed to download from your own site and if u use an verification so lauchers can't load it automacily from that site. So you can be shure that every thing that comes from anywhere else is iligal and can be dealt with.

It's already covered by all the copyrights and licenses involved! All you need to do to stop it is hire a lawyer to file an injunction against them and wait for things to play out.

That is, if property of yours is being used by them. Otherwise, have some popcorn.

[eggbeast 3673]

at some point in the near future (when i've finished making notes on all of the EULA's and APL formats) I will publish a new license which will include a clarification of what I as an author see as commercial use, which would clearly prohibit A3L for ever using my content. you will be free to make use of this license.

A quick note of the A3L license agreement included with "their" mod

disclaimer.txt

“This release (or modpack) is meant to be for the Arma3-life.com community and any use of any addons/files labeled A3L (A3L_) AND LakesideValley.pbo is strictly forbidden to be used in any other game server (no matter what game) unless this server is hosted by arma3-life.com itself (THIS INCLUDES THE MAP).â€

Interestingly the BIS APL license specifically prohibits this approach to be taken by any users of its APL derived content – see below – which means that the A3L team have inserted conditions into their mod pack that are in breach of the BIS license agreement.

BIS APL

http://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/arma-public-license

“Downstream recipients.

a. Offer from the Licensor – Licensed Material. Every recipient of the Licensed Material automatically receives an offer from the Licensor to exercise the Licensed Rights under the terms and conditions of this Public License.

b. No downstream restrictions. You may not offer or impose any additional or different terms or conditions on, or apply any Effective Technological Measures to, the Licensed Material if doing so restricts exercise of the Licensed Rights by any recipient of the Licensed Materialâ€

[nodunit 397]

at some point in the near future (when i've finished making notes on all of the EULA's and APL formats) I will publish a new license which will include a clarification of what I as an author see as commercial use, which would clearly prohibit A3L for ever using my content. you will be free to make use of this license.

A quick note of the A3L license agreement included with "their" mod

Interestingly the BIS APL license specifically prohibits this approach to be taken by any users of its APL derived content – see below – which means that the A3L team have inserted conditions into their mod pack that are in breach of the BIS license agreement.

BIS APL

http://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/arma-public-license

While admirable I'm not quite sure what you hope to accomplish.

If you don't have a lawyer then a license falls back on the trust system, and we've already seen demonstrations of them not caring, what good is a bunch of legalize if its not followed and there is no way to enforce it really?

It's like telling a child that they have been bad and thus trying to put them in time out, the child doesn't listen and keeps doing their own thing while you continue to tell them what trouble they are in.

[Persigno 10]

But then in the long run honest people like myself included cant use the awsome content anymore made by awsome moders to use on our own at home in single player mode. As myself am unskilled to make mods (never study programming) and for me moders r a blessing becouse they always have made it easy to use for unskilled people to install everything and so at the end only skilled people who have all programs to decrypt the files can use those mods on arma :butbut: people like A3L just ruin stuff in the long run for easy cash grab in the short run. And past week i see more of this stuff appearing on twitch aswell as people on altis life RPG now via twitch openly start to sell houses or trade ingame money for real money or r affiliate for the servers so if someone donate via there links they get a cut just openly on twitch. i have nothing against donation for servers, servers r not for free. but now they just comercialize it on twitch. the news is spraid people cant do much unless they waste alot money on law stuff, lawyers etc. to bad becouse arma community provided us great game expirience and greedy people starting to ruin it.

[shinkicker 5]

I am expecting 2017 mod to get a lot of assets ripped out when we release, so I am sure I can learn from this. To be honest we won't be able to stop people doing what they want, but I would like to draw the line at any using it commercially.

[eggbeast 3673]

if they breach your license and you can prove it, they can at least be banned from promoting their mod here and on armaholic and PWS.

additionally, you can send the evidence to their data centre, their paypal account holder, their facebook page host, moddb, and BIS, who may all take action to withdraw services...

[havatan19 10]

I am expecting 2017 mod to get a lot of assets ripped out when we release, so I am sure I can learn from this.

well, 2017 is not a commercial mod and do not charge money like arma3:life and im sure that if they use models from other addons, they have permission for it.

[iamthesux 10]

I imagine a lot of mod developers out there are now thinking of ways to protect their work. There has been suggestions of not releasing things publicly, and encrypting pbo's etc and it scares me a little. How many of you can claim to have learned sqf or the config system independently? Without the modding community, Arma would hardly be worth playing (my opinion), and being able to look at other peoples code and configs is the single greatest learning resource we have (again my opinion).

Don't get me wrong, claiming others work as your own, and worse trying to profit from it is despicable. But lets not cut off our nose to spite our face.

[CaptainObvious 95]

well, 2017 is not a commercial mod and do not charge money like arma3:life and im sure that if they use models from other addons, they have permission for it.

I think you misunderstood, shinkicker is a 2017 dev himself, and he is concerned of other ripping their content once they release 2017.

They create their own stuff.

[A.Cyprus 16]

I'm not interested in obfuscation or encryption. I support sharing and learning from one another. Just look at my current license or the comments in my init.

But A3L disgusts me. I aim to change my license so that if they do use my work it will clearly be without permission and clearly show the type of group they are.

---------

Chopper / Jet / Vehicle too loud to hear comms?

You need Cyprus Push-to-Hear!

[haleks 8206]

Wouldn't this problem be solved if addon makers could encrypt their pbo files such as .ebo files from BIS DLC ? (i mean, for addons theft being modified by others).

^ this!

It's probably the best idea I read in here. It would be interesting to have a word from someone at BI on that.

[iamthesux 10]

I'm not interested in obfuscation or encryption. I support sharing and learning from one another. Just look at my current license or the comments in my init.

Then you sir, have earned my respek.

[JdB 151]

I imagine a lot of mod developers out there are now thinking of ways to protect their work. There has been suggestions of not releasing things publicly, and encrypting pbo's etc and it scares me a little. How many of you can claim to have learned sqf or the config system independently? Without the modding community, Arma would hardly be worth playing (my opinion), and being able to look at other peoples code and configs is the single greatest learning resource we have (again my opinion).

Don't get me wrong, claiming others work as your own, and worse trying to profit from it is despicable. But lets not cut off our nose to spite our face.

When I started learning how to make things (0 experience prior to Operation Flashpoint) I talked to addonmakers that I happened to know and ones that I didn't know but who expressed a willingness to help explain things if I needed help. Because that's the legal way to do things: Ask people for their help and/or access to their content rathering than opening stuff on your own which doesn't even guarantee that you will find out how stuff was done, the creator can tell you right away or point you to someone that can or something like a tutorial. Also for some it's an easy step from opening content to learn from it to reverse engineering to simply copying the work of others because they can't be bothered to actually learn how to do anything or in this case are looking for easy money.

After a few years of mostly listening and learning I was able to start helping others (though I wouldn't compare myself to some of the experts that we've had in this community) thereby completing the circle. Looking at a painting won't teach you how to paint, practicing and learning from people with more experience than you will. Being in a community means interacting with people and respecting them which will get you a lot further than trying to solve things on your own when you lack the experience and knowledge to know what it is you're seeing or what looking for. You can look at code but if you don't understand how it works it won't help you, at which point it will seem awefully convenient to some just to copy it through which you will still not have learnt anything.

Edited November 11, 2014 by JdB

[eggbeast 3673]

The Evolution of Co-operation in animal and human populations is key background

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation

Essentially biologists and game theorists study the mathematical basis of strategies in nature that enable co-operation and altruism to prosper.

It affects everything from weaver fish cleaning sharks mouths to mongooses babysitting for each other, to soldiers playing football in no-mans-land to people sharing common grazing rights... and it also affects us here.

This is what I did my thesis on directly working for prof. John Maynard Smith. John's strategy to enter a community based game of Prisoners Dilemma (where defectors can screw over the co-operators if not robustly challenged, where co-operators can prosper the best as a whole, but individual defectors prosper most if not dealt with) was Tit-for-two-tats, which basically shares with a new guy until he is screwed twice (which allows for some noise in the system, like a misunderstanding of another guys intent). The competition, held by Robert Axelrod at Santa Fe Institute attracted strategies fro mall over the world, and Johns won.

Being a co-operator isn't enough - you need to have a healthy proportion of Tit-for-tatters who support a population of co-operators by not letting the defectors get a foot-hold.

The reason I fight for addon makers rights is directly informed by the maths of that game.

[janus0104 3]

The Evolution of Co-operation in animal and human populations is key background

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation

Essentially biologists and game theorists study the mathematical basis of strategies in nature that enable co-operation and altruism to prosper.

It affects everything from weaver fish cleaning sharks mouths to mongooses babysitting for each other, to soldiers playing football in no-mans-land to people sharing common grazing rights... and it also affects us here.

This is what I did my thesis on directly working for prof. John Maynard Smith. John's strategy to enter a community based game of Prisoners Dilemma (where defectors can screw over the co-operators if not robustly challenged, where co-operators can prosper the best as a whole, but individual defectors prosper most if not dealt with) was Tit-for-two-tats, which basically shares with a new guy until he is screwed twice (which allows for some noise in the system, like a misunderstanding of another guys intent). The competition, held by Robert Axelrod at Santa Fe Institute attracted strategies fro mall over the world, and Johns won.

Being a co-operator isn't enough - you need to have a healthy proportion of Tit-for-tatters who support a population of co-operators by not letting the defectors get a foot-hold.

The reason I fight for addon makers rights is directly informed by the maths of that game.

Now if only it had also included a couple of million in research grant, you could be the Bruce Wayne of mod rights.

[iamthesux 10]

There is a huge difference between learning by example and simply copy and pasting. I don't know you so I will give you the benefit of the doubt when you say you've learned everything you know by asking questions or trial and error, but can you honestly say you've never unpacked a pbo without the authors permission? And did you ask every author involved in the creation of that pbo to look at the resource that he or she created?

Also the painting analogy works for something like modeling or texturing. These are more artistic in nature and must be learned through practice. When it comes to scripting and configs, you enter the realm of logic and rules, and it is far more difficult to learn by trial and error than it is by example.

Please don't mistake my argument as support for content theft. I am not trying to condone the actions of the A3Life "developers", I am simply concerned that an overreaction might cause more harm than good.

[eggbeast 3673]

i don't think we're all gonna lock up our stuff. i think we're gonna deal with the threat.

[ProfTournesol 956]

i don't think we're all gonna lock up our stuff. i think we're gonna deal with the threat.

Yeah...as much as we can't lock them up...