Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[StevenW129 10]

A3L user commented on that Youtube video:

Releasing the server files would be a direct breach of the license on Tonics work, so that would be very silly of them.

[ArmaPilot 1]

A3L user commented on that Youtube video:

I already have the server files and mod pack lol.

[BL1P 35]

If all mods belong to BIS then why is BIS letting them steal peoples mods ?

[StevenW129 10]

I already have the server files and mod pack lol.

So does everyone else - https://github.com/TAWTonic/Altis-Life

[slim_pikins 12]

If all mods belong to BIS then why is BIS letting them steal peoples mods ?

Well I still have hope, I mean when have you ever known BIS do anything quick? or chat there shit on tw*ter?

It's not just about whats legally acceptable its also about whats morally right.

[slatts 1978]

They aren't going to say anything here on this thread off cuff or say things loosely on a public forums without getting all the facts, consulting their legal advisers and making a properly worded clear statement.

What else do you expect? If there's laws being broken then a dev saying things unofficially on a forums can be hurtful to a possible case against X party. even if it is morally right.

[BL1P 35]

True True.

But then the comments about BIS cannot do anything about this, its upto the Mod creators is wrong, if infact BIS is the owners of all Modded content BIS can do something about it.

Is what I mean.

IF BIS is going to do something about this, then wouldn't they let the MOD owners know they will be dealing with it ?

If BIS isn't going to do anything shouldn't they let the mod owners know they wont be dealing with it ?

More popcorn !

P.S I see you slim :)

Edited November 5, 2014 by BL1P

[devilslayersbane 28]

"Here is the EULA which states that modders do not own anything they make for ArmA 3: All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Program and any and all copies thereof (including but not limited to any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, narrative, locations, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audiovisual effects, methods of operation, any related documentation, and addons incorporated into the Program) are owned by Bohemia Interactive a.s. (the Licensor) or its licensors. The Program is protected by the Czech copyright laws, international copyright treaties and conventions and any other applicable laws. All rights are reserved."

Here is what this means in terms of the law:

1. The game and all of it's official assets, code, etc. are bohemia's and cannot be re-used.

2. Addons incorporated belong to bohemia.

3. This does not cover unofficial addons that are not released and published/distributed by bohemia.

This EULA agreement is directly talking about Arma 3 and official DLC and patches. As someone who grew up with debate classes and lawyers as relatives, this vagueness in the EULA can be misinterpreted. However, in just about any court of law, one would be able to not only argue, but prove that bohemia does not and cannot own unofficial DLC unless they are the ones who are publishing it.

[MINKA 14]

BIS themselves may enforce the infraction where A3L charged people to join the server, be it direct commercialism, Or proxy commercialism, An intended profit was made through the restriction in access to their A3 server. Which is a no no

[Siege-A 4054]

BIS themselves may enforce the infraction where A3L charged people to join the server, be it direct commercialism, Or proxy commercialism, An intended profit was made through the restriction in access to their A3 server. Which is a no no

+1. That was my main gripe with BI's official response to the situation. Regardless of all the other details, A3L made a substantial sum of money when they were charging people to join (commercial activities), but now that they have been caught, they simply changed their rules around and BI is okay with it since they have now complied. What sense does that make? In theory, I guess people could just do the same as A3L and make as much money as they can until they are caught...then BI will just order you to stop, but you get to keep all the money you've made up to that point with no real consequences for your actions. The proper way for BI to handle this, would be to take the evidence stacked against A3L and make an example out of them so anyone thinking of doing the same will take a step back. You breach our EULA once...that's okay. You breach it twice...that's breaking the law.

[ArmaPilot 1]

This is the best thing ever. http://arma3-life.net/

A3L steals work from people, they get "their" work copied.

[BL1P 35]

So as far as I can tell at the moment.

Some people think BIS have ownership rights of community addons and others think they don't.

I guess its this bit which is causing problems :-

"and addons incorporated into the Program) are owned by Bohemia Interactive"

I have no idea about Czech copyright laws or any other copyright laws.

For me I would have to take it as my interpretation, which would be that BIS does have ownership rights of community addons.

Either way doesn't really help addon makers wondering who is correct or wondering wtf the EULA means.

When they have had someone steal their work do they chase the claim only to find they cant because BIS own the rights or do they contact BIS to chase the claim because BIS own the rights ?

I am not trolling, I really am wondering who is correct in this ownership thing of community addons.

[Dr_Defimus 10]

As far as i have ssen the Moddb page was taken down - good work we are on the right way

[oksman 37]

Just don't play the shit :P Go play what Arma was made for, Milsim!

[andersson 285]

Maybe the easiest way to end this is to start a server with a copy of A3L and have no "donation system". Then there is no much reason for people to pay to play. One must ofcourse remove Forza and Crysis objects, and give Tonci and other A3 addonmakers credit. "Stealing" the A3L name is karma :P ;)

[MattLightfoot 1]

What I still don't understand is why Bohemia has all these 'Terms of Conditions' and policy agreements that prohibit A3L doing what they are doing right now, which has been clearly evidenced, does not enforce a single one of them and don't even bat an eyelid to it when the community has to constantly e-mail them and write on the forum. Why should everyone else follow the Ts & Cs when Bohemia will not enforce them?

We have enforced the ones we can, which is them charging for access, if you have evidence they are still doing this then contact me direct - matt.lightfoot@bistudio.com

I find the level of support that Bohemia has shown to this issue very concerning. Content providers such as those who have been victim to this 'scandal' really are the ones who give this game its value. I don't see how a blind eye has been turned to the fact that a group of people stole others work and claimed it as there own, only to sell this to players.

If Bohemia are not capable to act as a governing body to the content creating community, and enforce basic rules such as "No stealing others work" then they need to recruit people who can.

We can't act on copyright owners behalf, it would have no legal grounding, it would be a waste of our time and money. Content creators need to action this themselves.

Or you know, if this keeps up and BI does absolutely nothing to help the content creators, we might as well stop creating content and developing for BI otherwise all of this will continue to happen. This will definitely will hurt BI's reputation as an independent company ignoring it's players.

As above we legally can't act on a content creators behalf as they are the copyright owner of their work and as such they need to pursue it themselves.

Yeah but if BIS personally message PayPal about the abuse against the EULA using PayPal as a method of collecting illegally gained money... PayPal will limit the accounts from usage until they complete an investigation into the matter, A3L purchase things and services via PayPal btw. So you can block a PayPal account easy as anything since you are only allowed 1 and they limit any multiples you have if they find you.

The charging for access has already been resolved, unless you have evidence otherwise?

so is BIS actually gonna do anything about this, or is it all the same to them as long as game units keep moving?

This is up to you content creators to deal with, send them cease and desists, if they don't respond, go to their server hosters, domain providers, paypal, youtube, facebook etc.

Arma 3 Life never had donations, they were and still are charging access. The applications are currently closed and the only way to join the server is to pay 30$ for a "fast lane". As long as they are getting money they will slow down the free applications as much as they can. They are just going around the "system" thinking they are so smart.

Do you have evidence of this continuing today if so please contact me in confidence at matt.lightfoot@bistudio.com

So this: http://i.imgur.com/Jsy2gyg.png is how BI decided to handle the situation? Wow. So basically, if your work is stolen (even if by immature little children) then it is your duty to resolve this between yourselves? And if the accused party decides not to comply with your wishes, then tough luck. In the end, this only opens content theft to anyone that has no concern over the thoughts of others, morality, or how their reputation may be affected. So what exactly is the point in releasing addons/mods with attached licenses...if none of those licenses really has any meaning (or consequences if broken)? Obviously, there might be a ban on these forums, and maybe some people disliking you...but what does that really amount to? A slap on the wrist (if that)? It's okay, Bohemia, leave your community to deal with the problem as you always have.

So what can we do? You give me a legally grounded and sustainable solution man power wise and I'm all ears.

So as far as I can tell at the moment.

Some people think BIS have ownership rights of community addons and others think they don't.

I guess its this bit which is causing problems :-

"and addons incorporated into the Program) are owned by Bohemia Interactive"

I have no idea about Czech copyright laws or any other copyright laws.

For me I would have to take it as my interpretation, which would be that BIS does have ownership rights of community addons.

This was described to me using the example of Microsoft Excel, if MS used the same clause, any table you create within that Excel program is your copyright, if you use the Excel program to make a derived version of excel then that would belong to MS.

Edited November 6, 2014 by MattLightfoot
Making clearer

[ZertyKchan 14]

This was described to me using the example of Microsoft Excel, if MS used the same clause, any table you create within that Excel program is your copyright, if you use the Excel program to make a new skin for it or an altered version of excel then that would belong to MS.

Well since we got some BIS PR on that life gate thread why not use it :)

So basically (correct me if I am wrong), a mission developer have ownership on all developed scripts and but cannot have it on a reskin of an existing vehicle (where BIS is the owner).

Now my question is what about scripts that modify the UI of Arma 3. Who might be proprietary of such a script?

Edited November 6, 2014 by ZertyKchan
English MF, i dont write it!

[MattLightfoot 1]

Well since we got some BIS PR on that life gate thread why not use it :)

So basically (correct me if I am wrong), a mission developer have ownership on all developed scripts and but cannot have it on a reskin of an existing vehicle (where BIS is the owner).

Now my question is what about scripts that modify the UI of Arma 3. Who might be proprietary of such a script?

They will own the copyright on the script and if they use the tools to create their own texture then they will own the copyright of the texture.

[BL1P 35]

Thanks for the info Matt.

I will try and get it all straight in my head :)

[MattLightfoot 1]

If you have any other questions let me know, I'll try my best to answer them with my non-legal mind

[Belbo 461]

Because of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_loci_protectionis the copyright law of the country that A3L is located in (or has its place of jurisdiction) is relevant for every action against infringements. If A3L would be located in the Netherlands or Germany, I assume there's a possibility for authors whose copyrighted material (copyright is not transferable, whereas exploitation rights are) was used to gain non-contractual profits, to issue a lawsuit against the profiteer. A possible outcome for such a lawsuit would be complete reimbursement of the claimant by the profiteer. They would have to pay back every penny they earned, that was gained by using copyrighted material to which they haven't had the exploitation rights, to the copyright holders - or a fee in line with the industry standard (which would still be a lot of money) plus a hefty fine.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Belbo

[StevenW129 10]

As far as i have ssen the Moddb page was taken down - good work we are on the right way

It seems my e-mail to ModDB actually worked. Nice to see.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 15:55 ----------

Seems they already made a new one. E-Mail has already been sent :)

http://www.moddb.com/mods/arma-3-life1

[GSP167 1]

It's pending admin authorisation, so hopefully they'll throw this one to trash as well. It's good that they won't get exposure from the site & be eligible for moddb awards anymore.

[StevenW129 10]

I have already sent an e-mail to ModDB staff so it should be removed asap.

[m1lkm8n 410]

You guys are awesome! Thanks for such amazing support. Seriously all of us who have had our IP stolen thank you for the support!