Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[StevenW129 10]

Mike Baxter,

I respect you for replying to the best of your ability on this post. I have a question about why Caiden still refuses to remove content inside the modpack when the creator has clearly stated he wants it removed.

The user by the name RoberHammer who created the RH M4/M16 and RH Pistols pack has asked for it to be removed and Caiden simply ignored the response and said he is not in breach of his disclaimer. In his disclaimer it very clearly says

Do not edit or redistribute without explicit permission

and NO commercial gain made by either renting, leasing or selling of

this package.

You are not allowed to upload this pack or parts of it to the Steam Workshop!

I take no responsibility for (im)possible damage to your game/system that may be caused

by installation of this Addon. This Addon is also prohibited to be used in any commercial product.

And Caiden says he is not in breach yet the addons have been resigned and redistributed, can you explain why this was not removed?

Regards,

Steven

[ArmaPilot 1]

So just getting this right.

A3L no longer ask for donations to get fast tracked (the scam). because BIS told them to stop.

But they still use altered mods and scripts that they are not allowed to alter and which they have been asked to remove by the authors of the mods\scripts ?

If BIS can't do anything about this at all or offer help to the original content creators. I feel that this attitude by the A3L group will be the end of the modding community for BIS.

If one group can get away with altering other peoples work and calling it their own and even charging for it until they get caught...

Honestly, I'm a bit worried about the modding community, if people like A3L be children and refuse to have respect for other people then what about future servers? If all these good addon producers keep making mods that don't get used or just get stolen, what's the point? It just takes one group of idiots with complete disregard for a games community to ruin it for everyone.

[mbaxter 10]

Mike Baxter,

I respect you for replying to the best of your ability on this post. I have a question about why Caiden still refuses to remove content inside the modpack when the creator has clearly stated he wants it removed.

The user by the name RoberHammer who created the RH M4/M16 and RH Pistols pack has asked for it to be removed and Caiden simply ignored the response and said he is not in breach of his disclaimer. In his disclaimer it very clearly says

And Caiden says he is not in breach yet the addons have been resigned and redistributed, can you explain why this was not removed?

Regards,

Steven

Hi Steven,

I will ask for an explanation on Caiden's behalf and forward as he has been banned from the forums for comments he shouldn't have made.

Just my perspective that he probably feels that he isn't in violation of using public released addons from Armaholic and that his (being mod makers) only reason for requesting the removal is because certain individuals contacted him and fed him a line of bull about us (A3L) being a commercial entity as were not that. Would be more than glad to speak with these individuals directly outside of this forum thread not to be hiding anything but it really isn't any ones business of what is said unless one of the two parties wants to release that information.

Regarding the resigned and redistributed - doesn't other communities do the same when they release a mod pack for their community? Do they really make them go out and individually download everything so that they can play the mod? This I am not familiar enough with and just asking a question to have better understanding.

[amatt 10]

I was just given this thread this morning as I don't sit on the forums watching for posts against the community I am currently apart of. However I did want to respond to this nonsense allegation regarding head admins purchasing a new truck with donations. For one no Head Admin even comes close to having access to the A3L Paypal account. So I want to stop that in its track immediately.

Now let's all be grown adults or for some young adults and try and discuss your concerns that you absolutely have every right to have and question. I want to point out a few things first before all the flames and attacks come at me so that we are clear.

1. I do not run or have control over A3L

2. I do not have paypal access to A3L to comment on donations

3. Yes Altis Life platform made by Tonic is currently being used ( This is something Caiden and Tonic need to deal with)

4. I can only convey your message to A3L Team but final decisions are definitely out of my control.

5. Bohemia has spoken to us and as we currently are told by them we are complaint with their EULA

My Beliefs:

1. We should be focusing on utilizing steakers framework and fixing it to an operational framework

2. I have always in a business practice receive a written email of authorization to use someones work. However from what I've read that Armaholic items are published for free usage for non-commercial in which A3L falls under.

3. I don't like trying to hide anything so if you have a sensible question to ask then I will try and provide you a reasonable answer.

So with that said, I have a full time job so responses can't be done immediately so bare that in mind.

It's nice to see that finally, for the first time, someone from the A3L team has acted in a mature manner and has had the decency to converse with many concerned members of the community. I'd like to ask you this:

Do you honestly condone the behaviour and actions of the A3L team? Stealing content creators work without any sort of acknowledgement or accreditation is completely unethical and should not be acceptable. The intentions of the A3L team have been made very clear and show a complete lack or regard for this community or even their own players. If the answer is no, then I see no reason why you still offer your services to the team when your you disagree with their (lack of?) morals.

[StevenW129 10]

Hi Steven,

I will ask for an explanation on Caiden's behalf and forward as he has been banned from the forums for comments he shouldn't have made.

Just my perspective that he probably feels that he isn't in violation of using public released addons from Armaholic and that his (being mod makers) only reason for requesting the removal is because certain individuals contacted him and fed him a line of bull about us (A3L) being a commercial entity as were not that. Would be more than glad to speak with these individuals directly outside of this forum thread not to be hiding anything but it really isn't any ones business of what is said unless one of the two parties wants to release that information.

Regarding the resigned and redistributed - doesn't other communities do the same when they release a mod pack for their community? Do they really make them go out and individually download everything so that they can play the mod? This I am not familiar enough with and just asking a question to have better understanding.

Hey Mike,

Thanks for your response.

Regarding the bottom paragraph, yes they do the same but they do it in the correct way in which they contact the author of the content they would like to include and get full permission so that the author is aware of the use of their content and the intentions of what it will be used for. A3L should have used that strategy before allowing others to download it.

Regards,

Steven

[A.Cyprus 16]

Regarding the resigned and redistributed - doesn't other communities do the same when they release a mod pack for their community? Do they really make them go out and individually download everything so that they can play the mod? This I am not familiar enough with and just asking a question to have better understanding.

Of course. If I already have downloaded an addon and am actively using it, why would I want to download the same files over again as part of another modpack?

I can download RH weapons once, maintain the updates in one location, and use them for any server that requires them.

Communities with large mod requirements can compile repositories which logically group addons together config wise, but still allow you to source and download individual addons once only.

[mbaxter 10]

It's nice to see that finally, for the first time, someone from the A3L team has acted in a mature manner and has had the decency to converse with many concerned members of the community. I'd like to ask you this:

Do you honestly condone the behaviour and actions of the A3L team? Stealing content creators work without any sort of acknowledgement or accreditation is completely unethical and should not be acceptable. The intentions of the A3L team have been made very clear and show a complete lack or regard for this community or even their own players. If the answer is no, then I see no reason why you still offer your services to the team when your you disagree with their (lack of?) morals.

AMatt,

I don't condone utilizing framework from Tonic if he doesn't want to give them permission to use it. But that is not my call to make or force them to switch. Stealing content from creators other than Tonic I don't see that A3L has done other than speculation of being a commercial entity and using publicly released modpacks which by their licenses were able to use. Now they should be credited and that will be fixed or atleast recommended to do from my end. There has never been the intention to be disrespectful to this community but all I've seen in prior posts is wild accusations and personal attacks and of course someone young as Caiden is going to act the way he did in his responses.

Now the reason I do stay in A3L is for the sole fact that there is quite a lot of potential to be a great mod for not only our community but others should that day come to release the mod information publicly rather than select individuals hacking into the server and post their own communities. I feel that I can try and reason with the team and put them on a track to be totally compliant and be over this huge debate of stealing and etc. The true intention was to never stay on Tonic's version for ever but to design while we continue working with Steaker that never left may I add finish his framework. That is the goal I am trying to reach and why I am taking the time out of my life to act as a mediator of this whole situation.

---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

Hey Mike,

Thanks for your response.

Regarding the bottom paragraph, yes they do the same but they do it in the correct way in which they contact the author of the content they would like to include and get full permission so that the author is aware of the use of their content and the intentions of what it will be used for. A3L should have used that strategy before allowing others to download it.

Regards,

Steven

Steven,

Thank you for that clarification and will talk with our team about how we can better utilize something like this as mentioned if other communities are utilizing this type of setup.

[qwertz 10]

There is a way for applications to be processed faster if you donate but that doesn't mean someone that hasn't initially put in an application can donate and then apply as applications are closed for everyone at the moment. So your allegations are inaccurate in my view and won't comment further regarding that matter in all due respect sir.

Dear Mike Baxter,

just to accurately understand this:

Currently, donations will fast-track applications that have already been handed in, but you are currently not accepting any new applications (donation or no donation) - is that correct?

Thanks for clarification!

[mbaxter 10]

Dear Mike Baxter,

just to accurately understand this:

Currently, donations will fast-track applications that have already been handed in, but you are currently not accepting any new applications (donation or no donation) - is that correct?

Thanks for clarification!

To clarify - we have 41 pages of submitted applications to become civilians. Applications are closed for any new ones being made until were caught up on those 41 pages. You can donate 30 bucks to have your application moved to the front but that doesn't keep your application from being accepted. There is only so many that we can do at a time and don't expect our staff to sit and do apps 24/7. We don't plan on increasing staff rapidly as it just lets in trolls with the intentions of not helping but stealing as found in the past. Were probably accepting 100 apps a day that are not anyone that have donated to fast track.

[m1lkm8n 410]

AMatt,

I don't condone utilizing framework from Tonic if he doesn't want to give them permission to use it. But that is not my call to make or force them to switch. Stealing content from creators other than Tonic I don't see that A3L has done other than speculation of being a commercial entity and using publicly released modpacks which by their licenses were able to use. Now they should be credited and that will be fixed or atleast recommended to do from my end. There has never been the intention to be disrespectful to this community but all I've seen in prior posts is wild accusations and personal attacks and of course someone young as Caiden is going to act the way he did in his responses.

Now the reason I do stay in A3L is for the sole fact that there is quite a lot of potential to be a great mod for not only our community but others should that day come to release the mod information publicly rather than select individuals hacking into the server and post their own communities. I feel that I can try and reason with the team and put them on a track to be totally compliant and be over this huge debate of stealing and etc. The true intention was to never stay on Tonic's version for ever but to design while we continue working with Steaker that never left may I add finish his framework. That is the goal I am trying to reach and why I am taking the time out of my life to act as a mediator of this whole situation.

---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

Steven,

Thank you for that clarification and will talk with our team about how we can better utilize something like this as mentioned if other communities are utilizing this type of setup.

Stop worrying about what other communities are doing and correct your guys wrong doing. Which is signing other peoples mods.

The correct way is to build your mod and make it require other mods. Then as the others have stated they only need to download the mod one time.

[A.Cyprus 16]

Pardon me for reposting, I fear my question may have been lost in the flurry.

ACyprus,

Very good question and that I will ask on and respond back with.

As the way I see it, players have the ability to request a refund from PayPal for their donation made to play access the mod quicker. If someone that wants to get a refund that would be up to obviously themselves, PayPal and Caiden to accommodate.

I don't see that being actually done as the originally intent I don't feel was to steal money from community members in order to fund personal advances and etc.

In that case, would the A3L team see it as the decent thing to make these members fully aware of the situation and prompt that they claim back the donations themselves?

The A3L team could inform them that donations were accepted in violation of the eula and should never have been accepted in the first place. Hence they have the right to the refund.

That would be a good step forward.

Thanks for continuing to reply.

[mbaxter 10]

Pardon me for reposting, I fear my question may have been lost in the flurry.

In that case, would the A3L team see it as the decent thing to make these members fully aware of the situation and prompt that they claim back the donations themselves?

The A3L team could inform them that donations were accepted in violation of the eula and should never have been accepted in the first place. Hence they have the right to the refund.

That would be a good step forward.

Thanks for continuing to reply.

Acyprus,

That will not be done as I can see as A3L were not instructed that is something that needed to be done by Bohemia themselves when we talked to them. I am sure that it would satisfy your needs to get everyone to get refunded but no one was ever forced to donate as there has always been other ways to get accepted into the mod and that has always been clear to access closed beta no matter how you look at it. It was against their EULA but not as it was done on purpose as every other mod out there does the same to get donations to run the mod and was doing as others. So blame us for being like other communities but don't hold our feet to the fire when others continue to profit in such manner. I guarantee you were probably one the first to remove the donation system to not include ingame perks so instead of harping on this topic - please direct your inquires to other communities that are still abusing this EULA violations.

There needs not be any more comments on my part on this subject of donations and refunds but will pass on the recommendation from the community here on the forums to A3L Team.

Edited November 4, 2014 by mbaxter
edited last portion of reply as some got left off from copy/paste

[deltagamer 612]

@mbaxter Great to see your answering questions in a mature manner. I would like to ask you - as you speak on behalf of A3L, if you are or A3L as a whole are aware that some models A3L are using are taken from other games for example this post that brought it to everyone's attention that the bus model being used was from Crysis 2. I'm sure it was mentioned also that there were some assets being used from the racing game Froza as well. Any comments on this would be great as I'm sure you understand that this could be an issue for A3L.

and what about this ? ripped model from crysis 2 ?

Video 1 of Arma 3:Life where players drive with the bus from crysis 2:

Video 2 of Arma 3:Life where players drive with the bus from crysis 2:

Crysis 2 original shot from story mode: www.igcd.net/images/035/946.jpg

Edited November 4, 2014 by deltagamer

[tonic-_- 53]

This is going to be the last time that I say this as I have said it to many times over the past 3 months, remove my work entirely and we are fine and I would also suggest that if you want to stay in 'good standing' with the community then you should uphold the original authors right and requests of their content being removed as well. We do not care that you are in 'good standing' with BI's EULA and are no longer using the content in a commercial way because the cold hard fact is the damage has already been done and we as content creators do not want our work associated with A3L period and no I will not discuss this 'privately' with Caiden because I knew from a year ago what type of person he was and everyone has seen his actions in this very thread so I have no interest what so ever of 'working it out' with him or speaking to ANY of the A3L members outside of the public view. I have voiced where I stand on this far to many times so there is no working it out, I want my work removed period and so do other authors.

[mbaxter 10]

@mbaxter Great to see your answering questions in a mature manner. I would like to ask you - as you speak on behalf of A3L, if you are or A3L as a whole are aware that some models A3L are using are taken from other games for example this post that brought it to everyone's attention that the bus model being used was from Crysis 2. I'm sure it was mentioned also that there were some assets being used from the racing game Froza as well.

Hi Deltagamer,

I will ask our modelling team where they came from this evening when I get home but from my understanding they have been using vehicles and editing/importing their own versions of original items.

I also noticed earlier before posting a comment made regarding taken vehicles from City Life regarding a volvo. That was a vehicle that had help from bluevein by one of our modellers and was not an actual vehicle they use directly. So there has been no stolen vehicles from other communities that I am aware of.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:15 ----------

This is going to be the last time that I say this as I have said it to many times over the past 3 months, remove my work entirely and we are fine and I would also suggest that if you want to stay in 'good standing' with the community then you should uphold the original authors right and requests of their content being removed as well. We do not care that you are in 'good standing' with BI's EULA and are no longer using the content in a commercial way because the cold hard fact is the damage has already been done and we as content creators do not want our work associated with A3L period and no I will not discuss this 'privately' with Caiden because I knew from a year ago what type of person he was and everyone has seen his actions in this very thread so I have no interest what so ever of 'working it out' with him or speaking to ANY of the A3L members outside of the public view. I have voiced where I stand on this far to many times so there is no working it out, I want my work removed period and so do other authors.

Tonic,

Thanks and do understand your point. I am working to get off of being on Altis Life onto our own framework that isn't based on any framework of your own coding whatsoever. As to the others requesting their mod items removed - will deal with them individually.

[ArmaPilot 1]

Hi Deltagamer,

I will ask our modelling team where they came from this evening when I get home but from my understanding they have been using vehicles and editing/importing their own versions of original items.

I also noticed earlier before posting a comment made regarding taken vehicles from City Life regarding a volvo. That was a vehicle that had help from bluevein by one of our modellers and was not an actual vehicle they use directly. So there has been no stolen vehicles from other communities that I am aware of.

See: http://i.imgur.com/OajxFLm.png

(I realize I'm being a little immature)

[deltagamer 612]

See: http://i.imgur.com/OajxFLm.png

http://weknowmemes.com/generator/uploads/generated/g1386188007618427597.jpg

(I realize I'm being a little immature)

[mbaxter 10]

See: http://i.imgur.com/OajxFLm.png

http://weknowmemes.com/generator/uploads/generated/g1386188007618427597.jpg

(I realize I'm being a little immature)

Arma Pilot,

Not sure why your high five one another as the image you just took was from a graphic designer not a modeler for us. If he wants to try and learn to model then that's fine, doesn't in any way show that we imported cars from forza. Liam is definitely not a modeler for A3L .

[deltagamer 612]

Not sure why your high five one another

I was merely showing my appreciation for Tom Cruise.

If he wants to try and learn to model then that's fine, doesn't in any way show that we imported cars from forza. Liam is definitely not a modeler for A3L .

That isn't the point. Currently there is a mod being distributed that has ripped material in it - A3L. There is/was money being made that included the said Material - The material may not have caused the money to be gained however there was some form of profit that was made due to the mod, even when it had another companies model/work in it. It doesn't matter how the money was raised that isn't really what I'm getting at. It is the fact that this model has clearly been used from Crysis and I can even link you to the page where someone at A3L most likely got those models from.

Edited November 4, 2014 by deltagamer

[miketim 20]

original items.

Then why doesn't the A3L team show some proof its original work they have done , instead of dancing around the questions and verbally harassing forum members, as we have seen in the past.

If the work is legit and original, they should have no problem showing some proof its their stuff.

[deltagamer 612]

That isn't the point. Currently there is a mod being distributed that has ripped material in it - A3L. There is/was money being made that included the said Material - The material may not have caused the money to be gained however there was some form of profit that was made due to the mod, even when it had another companies model/work in it. It doesn't matter how the money was raised that isn't really what I'm getting at. It is the fact that this model has clearly been used from Crysis and I can even link you to the page where someone at A3L most likely got those models from.

To add to this, since the Crysis bus model was used in A3L and some kind of "Profit" was made during its inclusion of the mod that would make the owners of Crysis entitled to some form of Percentage/Cut in the money raised to my believe, it would also allow that company if so inclined to do so take legal action against the curators of A3L.

Edited November 4, 2014 by deltagamer
Perhaps a company like that would not wish to be involved in a "Cut"

[ArmaPilot 1]

To add to this, since the Crysis bus model was used in A3L and some kind of "Profit" was made during its inclusion of the mod that would make the owners of Crysis entitled to some form of Percentage/Cut in the money raised to my believe, it would also allow that company if so inclined to do so take legal action against the curators of A3L.

These guys can't give a straight answer. That picture I put was from one of his past broadcast downloading models from Forza 3 importing them into Oxygen/Object Builder. After I took the screen they removed all their past broadcast so no one could go look/removing the evidence. This matt guy has know idea and is just defending the community. If these "A3L devs" are so great and glorious as everyone makes them out to be then none of this would be happening. This tops as one of the worst servers in ArmA history for me. Wouldn't be a problem to use blueprints in modeling program, it's a problem when you use models from another game without giving that game/creator credit. They are full of shit when they say they are switching from tonics or using 'their' own work.

[GSP167 1]

These guys can't give a straight answer. That picture I put was from one of his past broadcast downloading models from Forza 3 importing them into Oxygen/Object Builder. After I took the screen they removed all their past broadcast so no one could go look/removing the evidence. This matt guy has know idea and is just defending the community. If these "A3L devs" are so great and glorious as everyone makes them out to be then none of this would be happening. This tops as one of the worst servers in ArmA history for me. Wouldn't be a problem to use blueprints in modeling program, it's a problem when you use models from another game without giving that game/creator credit. They are full of shit when they say they are switching from tonics or using 'their' own work.

Yeah, not happening in a million years, they will still steal other people's work until someone brings them down.

[miketim 20]

Thanks and do understand your point. I am working to get off of being on Altis Life onto our own framework that isn't based on any framework of your own coding whatsoever. As to the others requesting their mod items removed - will deal with them individually.

Its these mods, these mods made by the arma community, which is a community that values intellectual property and respectful use of addons...

You guys have built your A3L "server empire" upon the backs of these addonmakers, without all these addons that you guys did not make, and which you did not ask permission to include and resign in your downloads, yet you are "working on" removing these.. you are "dealing with them individually"....

We all know that these mods and scripts made by the community that you guys haven taken is what makes your server popular, so why don't you just shut down the damn servers for 1 day, Caiden and his A3L team can go 1 day without lining their pockets... and just take one day, put the servers offline, remove all offending content and all content which the addonmakers ask you remove, then...and only then you have "worked" on it.

That is how you can "earn" the trust of the arma community, though we can clearly see the damage has been done... poor "PR" choices on Caidens part have clearly negativley impacted you guys, so just do what you all know needs to be done...

We can clearly see those like Tonic asking you to remove his content and other content creators making similar requests, so just remove it!

Get someone to make a new mission, it cant be that hard, you guys are all "devs" after all.... isn't that what being a modder is about, creating things... not using other peoples work, which clearly they don't want you to use.

Among all this PR and "responses" from A3L, not one of them has actually shown any proof that you guys are making this "original" content, not one response has shown that you have removed these offending addons... so how can any of us know what is going on there, how can any of us know where these addons and donations are all ending up at, is that not a valid reason for some red flags to go off in your mind?

Really, think about how these addons made by others are what builds your server, lines your "donations" accounts and you can't take the common courtesy to these addonmakers who have created something, just to remove their addons and show some proof you have done so.

As someone who creates things for arma on a daily basis, I can honestly say that if my creations were used in this way, I would too strongly object to it.

Edited November 4, 2014 by MikeTim

[deltagamer 612]

These guys can't give a straight answer. That picture I put was from one of his past broadcast downloading models from Forza 3 importing them into Oxygen/Object Builder. After I took the screen they removed all their past broadcast so no one could go look/removing the evidence. This matt guy has know idea and is just defending the community. If these "A3L devs" are so great and glorious as everyone makes them out to be then none of this would be happening. This tops as one of the worst servers in ArmA history for me. Wouldn't be a problem to use blueprints in modeling program, it's a problem when you use models from another game without giving that game/creator credit. They are full of shit when they say they are switching from tonics or using 'their' own work.

Agreed, although A3L have made some changes there still needs to be a few more. I believe mbaxter is just trying to be nice about the situation moderating each side and relaying messages back and forth. However I do feel baxter isn't as informed about the situation as I would like, below being an example. I'll move on from that though as he/she has been doing well to keep the discussion civil even when representing A3L.

I will ask our modelling team where they came from this evening when I get home but from my understanding they have been using vehicles and editing/importing their own versions of original items.

Edited November 4, 2014 by deltagamer