Important it's the real world out there

[Sweeper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as many of you here have probably realized, I am somewhat knowledgeable in the area of firearms, which puts me head and shoulders above the average movie director and game developer, which is where a lot of people, both here and in general, get info on guns, military, killing, sniping, etc.

I believe I have been quite vocal about how badly games and movies are at depicting firearms realistically (two desert eagles, one for each hand!?!

However, it isn't just firearms they get wrong, it is often military, combat, "cool", and violence they get wrong

we sometimes do the same thing here, talking about how "cool" shadow is to sneak around and wax the baddies. Its just a game, I realize, but still, sometimes we may get "too involved" in the nuances of the game and "forget" what reality is, not so much the reality of firearms functions, but of violence. I came across this article about how "cool" snipers are, and wanting to be just like them, and I figured I would share it with you guys

Thoughts on Entering Military Service and on Being a Sniper in the Military

Recently, a friend of mine forwarded a piece of E-mail to me that he received from a young man who wants to join the service and become a sniper. My friend, who will remain anonymous, sent it along to me asking for my thoughts. Here is his correspondence. I will sign it with a different name to protect his privacy. Addressed to my friend, here is what the young man wrote:

"I have just recently looked through the Sniper Country Guest Book. I read a few of your stories and comments and was impressed. For the last couple of years I have been seriously considering military service. My admiration is utmost for those who have fought and died for this country. Carlos Hathcock has been an inspiration to me. Not because of the fact that he wasted 93 gooks, but because of his sense of duty and loyalty to his fellow marines. I am greatly interested in sniping. I consider it to be a valuable asset on the battlefield. My military experience is practically nonexistent. My family pushes me to become an officer but, I don't believe I could become a sniper as an officer. I am only 17 and I don't know if I am cut out to be a sniper but, I want to see. Any advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated."

"Rick"

Try to imagine the worst way of life you can. Now, multiply that times 14. Now square it. Now add 400. That being done, you're nowhere NEAR what it's like to be in the military as an enlisted man, or as an officer. Headaches, B.S., undeserved blame, screaming, B.S., crappy hours, little or NO free time, questionable quality in food, heat, cold, humidity, dryness, clothes that don't fit right, B.S., someone trying to kill you, someone saying that you kill children for fun, digging up landmines, emplacing landmines, checking landmines, B.S., equipment made by the lowest bidder (to ESPECIALLY include your weapons), MORE undeserved blame, urinalysis tests, poking, prodding, physical testing, academic testing, studying, studying, studying, studying, studying, studying, studying, studying, teaching (yes, teaching), following unreasonable (though "legal") orders, following stupid (though "legal") orders, following deadly (though "legal") orders, ISSUING unreasonable (though "legal") orders, ISSUING stupid (though "legal") orders, ISSUING deadly (though "legal") orders, B.S., bugs crawling on you, bugs feeding off of you, bugs KILLING you, germs KILLING you, toxic gases KILLING you... oh, and did you say you wanted to be a sniper? Oh, well, in that case, you can also add:

Little or no support in an operation you're on that goes bad, crapping in your pants and urinating in your pants because you can't run off to a latrine because you'll blow your stalk or give away your hide, running out of food, equipment that was built by the lowest bidder (including your weapons AND optics), failure to receive credit unless you've got a "confirmed" kill, watching through your scope as the bullet you just launched takes off the head, from the nose up, your target -- then LIVING with what you've done, and doing it AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN -- bugs, bugs, bugs, and more bugs... bugs you've got on you that you CAN'T swat for tactical reasons, bugs that can kill you, bugs that you've got to eat because you've run out of food (did I mention little or NO support while you're on a mission?), if you're caught you could be sliced, diced, tortured, raped (yes, raped), skinned alive and then killed "just because" you're a sniper (snipers get "special" treatment by the enemy).

You should NOT join the military because you'll be given financial assistance for college, or because you'll receive job training, because you'll get a steady paycheck, or because your girlfriend will think you look snazzy in uniform. Nobody JOINS the military to become Rambo, they GET OUT because they're Rambo. The military is NOT the place for John Rambo. If you've never read "Murphy's Laws of Combat," you should. You really should

Sniping isn't just killing people. It's B.S., too. You can't forget the B.S., because it's always there, no matter what rank or job you have. As a sniper, you're an intelligence gatherer, you make and file reports, you have to NOT engage targets that you "know" you should (because your unreasonable-but-legal orders forbid it), and all the time... someone is trying to hunt YOU down, to kill YOU, because YOU'RE a SNIPER! Fun? It's not fun, it's B.S., and it's just a job. Snipers support the mission, support the commander, and save lives. It's tough work and it's not glamorous.

Why should you become a sniper? Carlos Hathcock said it best, that the job picks the man, not the other way around. Believe it. You hear and read about all the "successful" snipers. What if you're not one of them. What if you turn into some psychotic killer? What if you end up beating your wife, using drugs, abusing your children, and living off welfare. It happens, and I've SEEN it happen. Killing people is "grown up" business, it's NOT for kids. If you ARE a kid, you WON'T be after you're first kill. Never again. No more innocence. You can't go back. If you really do want to be a sniper, do it because snipers SAVE lives, not because you want to kill. Also, in your letter to my friend, you referred to Vietnamese people using the "G" word... and I want to comment on that.

It is ALMOST a "necessity" to objectify your enemy in war, for many reasons including psychological ones, because it makes it easier to kill them. A "little" easier. Remember, however, that the guy whose head you're about to take off might have a wallet with pictures of his wife, his kids, his daughter's first birthday party, a letter from his mom telling him that she's worried about him, maybe a letter from his wife saying that she's divorcing him to marry the guy she's been having the affair with while he was gone serving his country. Maybe he's had a hard day. Maybe he's been eating bugs, too, because HE'S gotten "little or no support," and so on. And now, you're about to kill him. See, he's really not a "G" word, he's a human being who isn't going to ever see his family, his friends, or mow his yard or play with his dog ever again. He's NOT a "G" word, he's a person. Remember that. Think what you have to in order to do the job, but when it's over, really over, remember that the "targets" you "serviced" were once living people, and they aren't anymore because of YOU. Period.

If you want to be a sniper, try for the job, and if your instructors think you have what it takes, fine. If, however, they say you don't pass the course, then... move on! Have something else to fall back on! Exercise your options! Again, like Carlos said, the job picks the man, not the other way around. If the job DOESN'T pick you, then "get a life" and MOVE ON! Snipers are a special breed, yes, but if you aren't a sniper it doesn't mean you're a piece of dirt. It just means what it means... that you aren't a sniper.

So, why SHOULD you join the military? I'll give you three reasons. Because you love your country, you love your country, and because you love your country.

<span id='postcolor'>

Read that and be shocked, since that is the truth.

I have not posted this it comes from another forum were i'm member.

the forum is HERE!

Now here you can read the replies to the topic and problobl see how the real world is.

I myself I have seen theese situations where a human is in your sight.

More info about that is on the URL.

[DarkLight 0]

Hmmmm the original message came from www.snipercountry.com

I've posted this before, must've been some months ago i think.....

[Tovarish 0]

And this is exactly why I would only take up arms IRL as a last resort. Too many people join up not knowing what they're getting into. I'm finding the recent Canadian Forces ad campaigns are pretty misleading. They focus on how you'd "Learn useful technical skills" "Use the latest equipment" "Work as a team" but somehow they don't mention "Serve your Country".

Now that I think back to my childhood in Cuba, I find it pretty scary when I realize how much school was like the military. Uniforms - differing from year to year - like ranks, lining up in front of the flag every morning before class and singing the national anthem, schoolkids were encouraged to learn to shoot a rifle - most of us did pretty regularly, shooting galleries were all over, just like arcades here. hell some schools even have target shooting as one of their sports teams. We even had a Homeland Defense class where we mostly studied the Vietnam war and the tactics the Viet Cong used (and a lot of anti-US propaganda). If the US ever invades, Castro seems to want anyone who's able to walk to fight back.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Sep. 18 2002,18:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And this is exactly why I would only take up arms IRL as a last resort. Too many people join up not knowing what they're getting into. I'm finding the recent Canadian Forces ad campaigns are pretty misleading. They focus on how you'd "Learn useful technical skills" "Use the latest equipment" "Work as a team" but somehow they don't mention "Serve your Country".

Now that I think back to my childhood in Cuba, I find it pretty scary when I realize how much school was like the military. Uniforms - differing from year to year - like ranks, lining up in front of the flag every morning before class and singing the national anthem, schoolkids were encouraged to learn to shoot a rifle - most of us did pretty regularly, shooting galleries were all over, just like arcades here. hell some schools even have  target shooting as one of their sports teams. We even had a Homeland Defense class where we mostly studied the Vietnam war and the tactics the Viet Cong used (and a lot of anti-US propaganda). If the US ever invades, Castro seems to want anyone who's able to walk to fight back.<span id='postcolor'>

I'd want the same if another country would invade my country....

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 19 2002,17:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd want the same if another country would invade my country....<span id='postcolor'>

So you would train school children to be soldiers? That is illegal you know, although he's not doing it overtly, think about it. Military style schools, strict discipline, proficiency with rifles encouraged, Homeland defence class - a freaking class focusing on guerilla warfare and anti-US propaganda.

Yes, I'd fight if Canada was occupied, but It wouldn't be because I was brainwashed to do it.

By the same token, if Castro dies and there is a revolt against his regime, I'd be very tempted to go back and join the revolt. Although under those circumstances it'd be near impossible for me to go back while the regime maintained control.

[ralphwiggum 6]

posted here sometime before

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Sep. 18 2002,18:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 19 2002,17:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd want the same if another country would invade my country....<span id='postcolor'>

So you would train school children to be soldiers? That is illegal you know, although he's not doing it overtly, think about it. Military style schools, strict discipline, proficiency with rifles encouraged, Homeland defence class - a freaking class focusing on guerilla warfare and anti-US propaganda.

Yes, I'd fight if Canada was occupied, but It wouldn't be because I was brainwashed to do it.

By the same token, if Castro dies and there is a revolt against his regime, I'd be very tempted to go back and join the revolt. Although under those circumstances it'd be near impossible for me to go back while the regime maintained control.<span id='postcolor'>

Children should not fight but i'd want as much ppl to defend our country... I'd never want kids to fight

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 19 2002,17:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Children should not fight but i'd want as much ppl to defend our country...  I'd never want kids to fight<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly. I was just comenting on how scary it is that it seems the education system there is training a back up guerilla army in case the country is occupied

[DarkLight 0]

Yeah, some weird shit happens in this world....

[Mister Frag 0]

Did any of you ever see the small tanks that East Germany let some kids use in parades? They were about six to eight feet long I would guess and unarmed, but they were clearly being used to instill boys with a military mindset from a very young age. If your parents were party members in good standing and if you volunteered for the right stuff, you would get to advance in rank and get to drive one in drills or a parade.

I've tried finding pictures of them on-line, but no luck so far.

[Paratrooper 0]

Commenting on the original article, I have never met an ex-service man who regrets his service or wouldn't go back if he could. It is a rewarding life, especially if you are a Guards officer; the mess is palatial!

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Pretty harsh, but I hope he smacked some sense into the kid. When I join the service, Im going to do it because I love my country (not necessarily my government lol) and I am willing to serve my country, even if 'serve' means to put up with chickenshit, or to be put into a kill or be killed situation. I figure I owe the country that makes my life so goddam easy at least that much.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Yes, I belive I will join for the same reasons as you Tex.

I would also hope that would be the pretext that all people joined the military, but unfortunetly it is not. I would not desire to go to a battle zone when my squad was made up with people who only joined the military for the money benifits etc. and had no desire to fight.

Only join the military if you are willing to fight.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When I join the service<span id='postcolor'>

What are you planning to do?

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Sep. 20 2002,01:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pretty harsh, but I hope he smacked some sense into the kid. When I join the service, Im going to do it because I love my country (not necessarily my government lol) and I am willing to serve my country, even if 'serve' means to put up with chickenshit, or to be put into a kill or be killed situation. I figure I owe the country that makes my life so goddam easy at least that much.<span id='postcolor'>

u love rocks and dust

[IceFire 0]

Hey Tovarish, what about military schools in the U.S. or in Canada?

Isn't that the same thing? But suddenly because it is being done in Cuba it is all of a sudden evil tyrannical propoganda?

All countries encourage their young to join the military. Even in the states here.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Sep. 20 2002,07:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey Tovarish, what about military schools in the U.S. or in Canada?

Isn't that the same thing?  But suddenly because it is being done in Cuba it is all of a sudden evil tyrannical propoganda?

All countries encourage their young to join the military.  Even in the states here.<span id='postcolor'>

It isn't compulsory though.

[second_draw 0]

I too am thinking about the defence force and found some of this helpful, but you gotta remember, if you have something in your targets, not much or anything will stop you. Lets just hope that the kid just has his target.

[Sweeper 0]

If anybody red the other forums post where I copied this from you will read something horrorific about me, my nick there is Sweeper the mercenary for thoose who didn't notice.

And thats a true story as true as it gets.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 20 2002,09:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Sep. 20 2002,076)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey Tovarish, what about military schools in the U.S. or in Canada?

Isn't that the same thing?  But suddenly because it is being done in Cuba it is all of a sudden evil tyrannical propoganda?

All countries encourage their young to join the military.  Even in the states here.<span id='postcolor'>

It isn't compulsory though.<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly. In Cuba all schools are like this. In the US or Canada you can choose to which type of school to go. and then at 18, you have to join the real thing for 2 years.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 20 2002,01:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Commenting on the original article, I have never met an ex-service man who regrets his service or wouldn't go back if he could. It is a rewarding life, especially if you are a Guards officer; the mess is palatial!<span id='postcolor'>

I would never go back. Military service is 99% shit 1% fun. I don't regret my service time since I value the experience, but there is no way in hell that I would go back.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I dont think I could kill a guy unless he was a threat to me.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would never go back. Military service is 99% shit 1% fun. I don't regret my service time since I value the experience, but there is no way in hell that I would go back.

<span id='postcolor'>

Well put.

In my opinion, the guys who tend to miss their service experieince were probably employed in non-combat roles. Or they were insane.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sweeper @ Sep. 18 2002,14:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it comes from another forum were i'm member.<span id='postcolor'>

You are member on another forum!? Ban this traitor!!!

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

I'm joining because of my Dad's stories, how much he liked it. I'm joining because I want to go places and do exciting things. I'm joining because weapons and war facinate me on a level nothing else does. I'm joining because I would not be happy behind a desk for the next 40 yrs of my life.

If I were Denoir I'd be upset too. But I'm relatively sure that getting into Special Ops in such a "warmongering" country like mine that I'll see action and go places and do things.

Just because that guy is some hippie who cries about dead Vietnamese, doesn't mean that I should reconsidering joining the Air Force.