Agm vs cse vs ace

[darrenk756 10]

So in terms of realism how are AGM and CSE doing compared to ACE 2. Also what are the advantages of AGM over CSE or vice versa and are there any more up and coming realism mods. Do either have AI functions implemented yet?

[Maria-Vivekaviarti 10]

So in terms of realism how are AGM and CSE doing compared to ACE 2. Also what are the advantages of AGM over CSE or vice versa and are there any more up and coming realism mods. Do either have AI functions implemented yet?

i've never tried AGM & CSE, but i'd really like to see ACE back...

[Gunter Severloh 3948]

I dont think AGM is as realistic as ACE2, and CSE just from the little I have looked into it almost looks like the same stuff as AGM

but dont quote me on that as I havent looked into CSE to get a decent idea of what it has, nor have I tried it yet.

ACE2 imo has alot more features then either of them combined.

There are other mods that add realism like

TMR Modular Realism TMR Features

Rifle Collision Addon [ALPHA]

FSF SacVentral

Von Quest Industries - H.A.L.O. System

Armor Improvement System (AIS)

Advanced Ballistics

to name a few.

As far as AGM for AI it only has AI skill values, whether its realistic I doubt it, but im sure it adds to the gameplay.

Heres the wiki btw that lists all the features and what they do, take a ponder yourself and compare the notes:

https://github.com/KoffeinFlummi/AGM/wiki

For your interest in AI there are many mods that add many things in terms of increasing realism of the AI to the game, quite a number

of them can be seen listed on my list: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?175400-AI-Compilation-List-of-Addons-Mods-Scripts-amp-Misc&p=2656299#post2656299

Edited October 18, 2014 by Günter Severloh

[papanowel 120]

In my opinion this kind of thread does not belong on this forum (my two cents). :p

ACE2 imo has alot more features then either of them combined.

Right now, we don't know if it will be ever release (I really hope so).

I red a couple of time Nou saying that he was working on it but if he is alone, I don't expect to see an ACE similar than the one in Armed Assault and A2.

[Harzach 2505]

Right now, we don't know if it will be ever release (I really hope so).

The comparison is to ACE 2, not ACE 3.

[darrenk756 10]

Sorry if this is abit off topic but you seem like a pretty knowledgable guy, I was watching a shactack video the other day and it seemed like the AI they were fighting were incredibly intelligent. Do they use any mods/scripts or is it all done smartly through the editor? I have googled this before but could not see any mods listed in their setups apart from some basic stuff.

[papanowel 120]

The comparison is to ACE 2, not ACE 3.

Oops, looks like I was too tired :)

[columdrum 11]

I think no mod right now rivalices with ACE2, nor in features(some are near to it on that though), and especially on optimization. Comparing the optimization focus on ACE, for example reducing the number public variables( that includes the setvariable[X,true]) and using events whenever posible... no current mod is even near to that.

Note, i am not saying that current mods aren't optimized at all, just that a lot of times features are considered more important than optimization, and i don't agree with that focus, especially if you want to use those mods with 50+ players :(.

We can still dream on ACE3... but seems like most of the original team are gonne, or focused on other projects :(

[Harzach 2505]

I was watching a shactack video the other day and it seemed like the AI they were fighting were incredibly intelligent. Do they use any mods/scripts or is it all done smartly through the editor?

Headless client and good mission design, most likely. If they are using any AI mods, I don't imagine they would list them as they would only be running on the server.

I think no mod right now rivalices with ACE2, nor in features...

People forget or fail to realize just how many hard assets ACE 2 added - a ton of vehicles (with 3D interiors!), weapons, units, etc. - in addition to all of the gameplay additions/changes. It truly is a staggering piece of work.

[Gunter Severloh 3948]

ACE2 had a ton of features http://wiki.ace-mod.net/wagn/Features nothing out for Arma3 that even comes close to what this mod has, plus the mod goes back to Arma1.

Now if you were to run various mods together such as AGM, TMR, and a few others like I am for my wip A3WarMod you would need alot of testing and making

sure that each mod does not override, or conflict with another mod's features which is tricky, so just combining mods to get more features and gameplay aspects

for realism added to your game has its challenge, but again compared to ACE2 theres not enough addons

and mods out right now you can combined to reach the level that ACE2 had/has.

[janus0104 3]

Basically it boils down to this: There are multiple teams who each have their own idea of what they want to add to the game. Each has different priorities, makes different design choices, and has expertise in different areas.

Neither of them are feature-complete in the sense that their makers believe they can now sit back, relax, and not work on more stuff.

Which you prefer is up to you - or your gaming community - to decide.

As to AI, well, there are multiple aspects:

- The abundance of existing solutions (UPSMON, DAC, ASR AI, Smarter Tanks, etc) that each do their own thing dont really force these gameplay enhancement mods to develop into that direction.

- With the current technical restrictions it's not so simple to do e.g. a medical system that includes AI. The overhead on the server's end gets quite big, leading to performance decreases. Eventually, with code optimization and the advent of Headless Clients, this may change.

- Feel free to suggest what specifically you'd like to see added in terms of AI in the respective mod's thread.

[Gunter Severloh 3948]

Speaking of AI heres a nice reference for your suggestions with links to take you there ;)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?175400-AI-Compilation-List-of-Addons-Mods-Scripts-amp-Misc&p=2656299#post2656299

[malcom86 33]

I too hope so much to see ACE 3 someday, but meanwhile I have to say between all the realism mods out there AGM is the most well done and easy to understand. It's not so "modular" as it's said, as I found out some incompatibilities like with VTS weapon resting (which works better than the AGM module, in my opinion) and BW weight calculator (same opinion of VTS resting), and not using a module will create only confusion if you're playing on a server where everyone use AGM (modules appears to be complementary for some milsim experience). But I haven't tried them all, just TMR, CSE and a few others (CSE is really a good choice too, anyway).

But my choice if really I have to tell remains AGM.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Malcom86

[dr@gon 118]

ACE 2 didn't just show up overnight, it evolved over time through several updates. ACE 2 evolved faster then ACE did but I assume that was because by the time ACE 2 came along the developers had a pretty good idea of what they wanted.

The AGM mod will evolve with more features too since the AGM team have made it know that they plan to offer added features in time..

[twisted 127]

Ace was amazing. So much so that I'd hoped bis would've taken inspiration from its features and incredible popularity and aimed for a similar level increased fidelity. Still hope that even though arma3 is a great game and the debs are moving things definitely in the right direction

[pressytcn 10]

ace is the goto mod for realism agm has some realistic aspects but nothing close to the original ace experience i hope to see ace for arma 3 one day but i seriusly doubt it i've heard roumers that sugest it might surface when the make arma not war is over but only time will tell maybe they're waiting for arma 3 to be finished

[rekkless 240]

I didn't really play ArmA 2 so I can't compare ACE 2. But i have used AGM and CSE extensively.

Both CSE and AGM IMO bring so much more game depth than what is offered in the vanilla game. Even though in both addons the animations are a bit clunky and odd.

Both CSE and AGM I think try to tackle the same objective but IMO do it very differently and achieve very different outcomes.

CSE IMO is the most realistic of the two. Its medical system in terms of realism knows no bounds. But this isn't exactly a good thing. As a moderately trained medic it would still take me 5 minutes to revive and heal a player and on the battle field you can only revive to a certain extent. Having to Blood bag, Saline bag and plasma bag people is a lot to learn and to remember. Then you have to remember to take patients back to the field hospital.

So when you get a squad of 10 with 3 or 4 injured players all of a sudden you're spending 25min of game play looking at the medical system trying to revive people. So being a medic sucks.

The CSE interface IMO while it does basically the same thing as AGM looks much better. It actually looks like it could be part of the game.

AGM on the other hand feels faster moving. There is only bandages, morpheme, epi and blood bags. Kind of like in DayZ. And for the sake of fun and realism I VASTLY prefer the AGM medical system as a medic can spend 1-2 min on a patient bandaging them and they are then back in the action.

AGM does pretty much everything else CSE does, I do very much prefer AGMs vehicle repair system. Having to repair tyres individually is very cool. But the default repair time in CSE is much more realistic even though compared to the real world still very video gamey.

Over all both CSE and AGM bring something to the table. My squad and myself personally prefer AGM only because it is faster, you spend more time in the action than you do repairing and healing.

But if you are after realism then CSE is what you're after.

Here is a video of our crew using AGM.

Here is a video of a Clan I played with using CSE

[Rakede85 10]

I like both of them. But CSE seems more realistic to me because of extended Wounds system and because of the really easy to implement in Editor

[djporternz 27]

Looks like we all get what we want: http://www.ace3mod.com/. No more agonising over the choice between CSE or AGM or ACE. I hope like hell they can pull it off, but knowing the ArmA community modders it is almost guaranteed to exceed everyone's expectations. Can't wait!