13€ DLC, hefty price for 2 choppers

[jimbop 25]

So you pay £10 to make full use, its the price of a quiet night out in the pub

LOL fuck going out for a slurp with you.... 2 lemonades and a packet of cheese n onion?...scattercash!!

[alleycat 28]

Everyone back up, can I have your attention for a second:

If you are not happy with the price, dont buy it. If you are, buy it. If their sales are low BI will take it as a hint it is overpriced. If the sales are high, BI will assume the price is good. That is how it works. Stop trying to guilt BI into lowering the price because you cant resist buying it anyway and are now trying to make it look like you are trying to free political prisoners by begging for a cheaper price.

There is many things to complain about in any Arma game, but the price tag was never ever something to complain about considering how much time I spent playing it. So all things considered, anything BI made is worth the price tag. I even got Arma3 for like 22€ initial price when it was in alpha. A few 100 hours later yes I do not feel ripped off. Mind you I also buy all COD games and am happy with most map packs because they are pieces of art most of the time and it takes time and money to create them.

And on top of that BI even allows a lot of the helicopter DLC to be used by non DLC owners, which they do not even have to do. Again shut up with the "community being fragmented" which is never the case in any game, because most people buy the stuff anyway and if you cant play on a server with a dlc map, well big deal, play on another server.

And finally about the price tag. BI is not ethically obliged to sell their products at the lowest possible price. It is not live-savign medicine, it is an entertainment product that no one is forced to buy.

[jgaz-uk 132]

LOL fuck going out for a slurp with you.... 2 lemonades and a packet of cheese n onion?...scattercash!!

Don't know where you drink Jimbop? got to be down South, up int North its 2 pints & a packet of smiths with change from a tenner. I did say quiet night :cool:

[avfc 10]

There is a lot more new stuff in there than just 2 Helos, take a look in the editor! So you pay £10 to make full use, its the price of a quiet night out in the pub FFS dudes. If that's what it takes to keep Bis in buisness, not a problem, I've had more than my monies worth over the last 10 years

Extremely quiet night i'd say! :p

Atleast pubs don't sell you the 2 pints and then go right you can look at them but its another fiver to drink it!

[vegeta897 13]

Oh and vegeta i did read your post and i'm not surprised thats the only thing you could come up with as a response.

That wasn't the only thing I "came up with". I gave you an entire paragraph, and you've now only responded to a simple rhetorical, dismissing everything I said. I asked if you read my post because you seemed to get a message from it that simply was not there (that we owe BIS anything). I didn't intend to insult your intelligence, but there's apparently a misunderstanding here, because nothing I talked about touched on the concept of us owing BIS anything.

Please read my reply again and respond to what I'm actually saying, or don't respond at all:

When did I say we owed the company anything? It's like you didn't even read my post. They owe us when we support them. By buying the DLC, they don't only give you helicopters, but continue to expand upon the game. They need sales in order to do this. Things like basic bug fixes are obviously owed regardless of DLC, but I'm talking about things added to the game that were not there or announced when it released, and we've gotten plenty of those already and continue to get them. You supported the developer by buying the game and you got a game. If you weren't happy with the game you got when you paid, that's too bad, but you can't expect them to work for free to live up to your expectations.

[chompster 29]

A good point, but again I feel it's a warped way of viewing things. Any money you give to the developers is support, and any support is going to result in a better game for everybody, no matter who paid for what. You can't not benefit other people when you buy BIS's games. People who bought DayZ helped Arma 3 players and vice versa (both in budget and staff hiring). The money made from DLC is not just to fund the work that was done on that DLC. You're giving your money to a company that makes awesome things, you can't choose what and where your money goes to within the company. It's not like they say "okay we made $50,000 from selling this DLC, let's divide it up among the people that worked on it". So to view buying the DLC as paying for the benefit of people that didn't buy it is a distorted view, in my opinion. Everyone buying anything from BIS benefits everyone.

Supporting someone or something is great and all, but in BIs case they're still a company that is selling you something. And when you buy something you expect to get value for the amount you're paying (which is what this topic is actually about, not all this supporting or not supporting) So when you get down to it and look at what you're paying compared to what you're getting the value is way off. The content that you're paying for are 2 new helicopters and 1 that got ported from TOH, some showcases and challenges that most people ignore/don't even know exist or may do(attempt) once and be done with it a handful of miscellaneous junk that majority of the players will never use. Does that sound like value for your money? Where are the actual helicopters this DLC is suppose to be about?

You may see this as a warped view as well(i could get why) but again, if the features are FREE then i'm not paying for them, but everyone else seems to be saying that i am because it needs to be payed for. But what about all the people that aren't paying but are still getting those features? So they really are telling me to pay on behalf of other people because, well someone needs to. Ignoring things like this is having a warped view imo. Supporting a company is great, and i'v played almost 650 hours of arma3, but that doesn't mean i can't expect to still get my monies worth from something they're selling me.

[PlacidPaul 11]

The more i think about it, the more i like the idea of them doing features to go along with some units/vehicles, rather than units/vehicles plus a campaign like before.

If they had started this plan long ago, the features could have carried over into the next game. Stop the moaning, and look towards the future with BI. :)

[vegeta897 13]

Supporting someone or something is great and all, but in BIs case they're still a company that is selling you something. And when you buy something you expect to get value for the amount you're paying (which is what this topic is actually about, not all this supporting or not supporting) So when you get down to it and look at what you're paying compared to what you're getting the value is way off. The content that you're paying for are 2 new helicopters and 1 that got ported from TOH, some showcases and challenges that most people ignore/don't even know exist or may do(attempt) once and be done with it a handful of miscellaneous junk that majority of the players will never use. Does that sound like value for your money? Where are the actual helicopters this DLC is suppose to be about?

You may see this as a warped view as well(i could get why) but again, if the features are FREE then i'm not paying for them, but everyone else seems to be saying that i am because it needs to be payed for. But what about all the people that aren't paying but are still getting those features? So they really are telling me to pay on behalf of other people because, well someone needs to. Ignoring things like this is having a warped view imo. Supporting a company is great, and i'v played almost 650 hours of arma3, but that doesn't mean i can't expect to still get my monies worth from something they're selling me.

You can't take the supporting out the equation. It's what makes the DLC possible. They are charging an amount that they feel will net them enough sales that will pay for the work they've put into the DLC and more to continue making DLC and the expansion. Since they put paid work into stuff you aren't paying for, that has to be compensated for somehow. Ignoring it and just focusing on the money and only what you gain after paying is just ignoring the whole picture. You can't make valid arguments on the subject without it.

You are paying for those free features. Not to access them, but for their development. Just as buying the game paid for not only the game's development but BIS's other endeavors. What makes you think you are in control of what BIS does with your money? Can you choose to have your $15 go only to the employees that created the helicopters? The view that you're paying for other people is true in some ways, but also ignoring a key concept: collectiveness. Everyone benefits collectively from everyone's collective support. A game improving is different from a factory producing more candy bars. It costs money to create each candy bar, and the cost is recouped by the sale of that one candy bar to an individual. But BIS doesn't need to reprogram firing from vehicles for each player. They make it once and it's there. The feature had one single cost to develop, and the player base as a whole contribute to paying for it. Not everyone has to pay to achieve this, and that's why it's possible for them to release parts for free. But there must remain at least something to give to people who did pay, and that's the incentive.

But nobody is forcing you to buy anything you don't want to. BIS doesn't expect each and every person to support them to make free features possible, they expect the community as a whole to buy enough to justify it. If you aren't comfortable with the idea of someone who didn't buy the DLC getting a better game alongside you who paid for it, simply don't buy it. I just think that's a silly point of view to have. It's like saying people being able to play a game demo is unfair because the demo wouldn't exist if people didn't pay for the game's development by buying it. What are you losing by other people gaining the same free things you are? BIS could have gone down the classic road of keeping all DLC-related content behind the price of the DLC, but there are several reasons they chose not to do that, and that was a discussion that has already happened, and doesn't belong here. So if part of their work is to be given out free, the other part has to compensate in price. If BIS didn't develop those free features at all, and were just charging $15 for some new helicopters, it would be too steep. The value would not match the work that went into it.

Lowering the price of this DLC would mean BIS did more work than they could justify because they wouldn't make enough money from it. Then the game dies. They can no longer justify adding to the game because it's a money sink. Increasing the work by adding more choppers for the same price gives the same result.

Enjoying the choppers plus the free features and continued support and expansion of the game is getting your money's worth, regardless of someone else's ability to enjoy part of that for free. Because your money's worth is what made the entire DLC possible, not just the choppers. A lot of people (enough, apparently) are comfortable with the concept of not getting instant gratification for every dollar they spend. They understand it's an investment of sorts into the game's future, and a justification to BIS for its present. If everybody viewed the DLC as simply paying $15 for 2 helicopters, ignoring the free features that cost money to develop, and ignoring the cost of supporting a game post-release, the game would have no future, unless they chose to never give out features for free again.

Edit: Sorry for the rambling, I've realized half way that I don't care about trying to convince you anymore.

TLDR: If you aren't comfortable with the concept, I probably can't change your mind. I suppose you didn't like the idea of the Supporter Edition either. Because that was paying 35 dollars more than someone else for extra stuff that definitely was not worth 35 dollars. But I and others paid it because we knew it would result in a better game. We didn't mind that that better game was also available to the people who only paid $30, or even less in a sale some day. Speaking of sales, your view would seem to be against that concept as well, wouldn't it? If I bought the game on release and paid $50, but someone else bought the game a few years later for only $15, how is that fair? They got the same game as me but paid way less. It's fair because the game's development was collectively funded by all its sales. BIS did not produce a better game just for me for my money, or a worse game for someone who paid less. BIS produced a game, everyone paid to make it happen. Having extras given to people who pay for things like DLC are incentives to make this happen.

Edited November 6, 2014 by vegeta897

[enex 11]

Gosh darn it vegeta beautiful post.

I agree with dsylexi thought about feature content.In general it feels small for 2 helicopter, but

expending gameplay sandbox environment (TKOH, slings FFV) is worth a lot more and will stay

with us to the end of arma 3 while feature content, like helicopters, you know, can be made by community.

[tupolov 520]

Vegeta,

Completely agree with your view. Paying for the DLC is about supporting BIS and it shouldn't be viewed as $15 for 2 helicopters! But people will associate handing over their hard earned cash with getting shiny things :D

I also feel that BIS could have marketed this a little better to avoid the very base reaction of "hey only 2 choppers!". Difficult for BIS I agree, but an additional chopper, porting of old A2 choppers or dare I say inclusion of TKOH helo's may have helped here. Not too much more work there to ensure the DLC didn't feel light.

Given the reaction though its clear there is a strong feeling about content and people's willingness to pay for content. Yes, the community can provide it, but at the same time it seems there are plenty of people willing to pay BIS for content and that's an opportunity for them!

Given the amount of people and money being thrown at StarCitizen for spaceships, it seems a bit crazy for people to complain about a $15 DLC that keeps BIS developing Arma 3. Maybe BIS should move towards the SC approach and start selling individual assets (vehicles) or packs of assets (weapons).

[kendo-be 10]

Given the amount of people and money being thrown at StarCitizen for spaceships, it seems a bit crazy for people to complain about a $15 DLC that keeps BIS developing Arma 3. Maybe BIS should move towards the SC approach and start selling individual assets (vehicles) or packs of assets (weapons).

Please don't. I didn't hesitate when I bought the DLC because I want them to keep developing arma 3. If you start with microtransactions you basically stop developing arma 3 to keep dishing out these new assets every month and nothing will change about the core of the game or any major content update. Arma 3 will become the milk cow for the company and they'll start moving dev members to other projects. I could be wrong, but I've seen it happen.

I paid €13 now even tho I agree it's a little light on content, but I hope there will be more DLC's in the future with more content and most importantly bug fixing.

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

Excellent post vegeta! Thanks to Pettka for sharing the link !

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, honestly it isn't a very good sign when you must defend a DLC by saying you're only buying it to support the studio. Anyway, i supported the studio by the supporter edition, but i can't say i have much interest in this DLC while being curious about the next one.

[oksman 37]

Hey think about how long it took for them to manage the Sling loading and all those "free" features, an increase in price balances out the "free" stuff. I don't get how people whine about it when obviously there are losses in money when you consider the work hours and time put into making this come to Arma 3.

And it's free.. they don't wanna split the community.. and they don't, and still people whine about it. Support BI, buy it and fly it. If not, then just sit in the back and enjoy your "free" experience.

[A3_Melle 40]

I wish every player for ARMA3 would just see it this way but unfortunatly a large group just do not want to understand the entire proces, even if ARMA3 was for free they wouldend stop the complaignts:

Respect for the developers in not giving up on theire goals and sticking to theire roadmap and the ongoing development proces!

Creating a project is also meaning drawing a line (roadmap) in the development proces, its always about making choices and thinking about the future steps to take and expand, you just cant make every single player happy! Some of us jump sky high with every update wich improves ARMA3(also meaning tools, steamworks and so on) others just keep looking at downsides, this will never change, this was on ARMA2 now on ARMA3 and if the future brings ARMA4 it will happen again.

I buy every DLC just to support the development proces, flying is not my thing (just as driving Karts) but its not only those "extra's", there is much more to keep this engine running and making it and keeping it a great game.

And dont forget our modding community! BI delivers the basic ARMA3 and for alot of people the modders/scripters/mapmakers create the next level gameplay and they dont even get paid and work sometimes with gifted donations.

Respect to you all, keep up the good work!

[alky_lee 279]

Extremely quiet night i'd say! :p

Atleast pubs don't sell you the 2 pints and then go right you can look at them but its another fiver to drink it!

That is just the point though. You can watch other people drinking their beer, but if you want to taste it you have to buy your own. BIS even let you have a taste but you won't get enough to get drunk.

Otherwise you'll just have to make do with the free buffet of sling loading and firing from vehicles.

[sancron 32]

Personally i feel also, that the DLC is a little overpriced for the content delivered with the DLC (Content not Features), compared to A2 DLCs. But when people was buy the DLC Bundle for 19,99€ they pay only 9,25€ instead of 12,99 for Helicopter and Marksman DLC. So we are near the DLC Prices from Arma 2 (Release Price 8,99€).

Personally i think, the major Problem of the DLC, is the lack of playable content added compared to A2 DLCs. Also many people think, that most features introduced in the DLC was need to already be included in A3. That's why people doesn't agree to pay 12,99€ for the DLC. And also the high amount of cash prizes in the Make Arma not War contest, rais maybe the opinion that something goes wrong. But thats only my personally opinion.

I've bought already the DLC Bundle when it was available, and was also hopping getting more playable content with the DLCs.

[vegeta897 13]

Gosh darn it vegeta beautiful post.

Vegeta, Completely agree with your view.

Excellent post vegeta!

Appreciate the support guys, I honestly felt kind of sheepish afterwards for typing so much.

Well, honestly it isn't a very good sign when you must defend a DLC by saying you're only buying it to support the studio. Anyway, i supported the studio by the supporter edition, but i can't say i have much interest in this DLC while being curious about the next one.

It's not a good sign for BIS's public image, that much is evident looking at facebook comments and any other reactions that share the sentiment of it being overpriced or under-value. But I think it's just a necessary hurdle for deploying a new strategy that gamers just haven't seen before. We shouldn't be scared of these kinds of reactions. After all, as much as they want to complain, they're getting and enjoying the free features anyway :P

Just like the whole early access trend still has lots of people who don't quite grasp the concept, and will complain about various aspects that come with the territory of game development (game breaking bugs, missed dates, no dates, perceived taking too long). But for those that do understand, it's a great way for them to support the developers by getting involved in the process and helping to shape the game that is to be.

[chiefboatsret 14]

When I add up dollars to hours of entertainment even including the dlc, I am still far ahead on entertainment value to dollar with BIS. What some of you fail to understand is Arma will never be a completed game. I do not mind spending some of the cash I saved by not purchasing COD, BF and Dragon rising, on dlc's to keep Arma moving along for years to come.

[r8gato 18]

'When I add up dollars to hours of entertainment even including the dlc, I am still far ahead on entertainment value to dollar with BIS.'

Exactly.

I paid $90 something to support this games development. Every penny well spent IMO. Very few games let me jump in and dork around for 10 minutes, or play MP COOP for hours on end. Both ends of the spectrum being super fun. Sandbox games are the future, and BIS has helped pave the way, and continue to do so. I want BIS to succeed, if for no other reason then to continue to see more game developers who aren't afraid to allow their games to be modded. I work in the industry. Modding opened the door for me to learn the trade. I want this option to be available for all aspiring game developers in the future.

[chompster 29]

TLDR: If you aren't comfortable with the concept, I probably can't change your mind. I suppose you didn't like the idea of the Supporter Edition either. Because that was paying 35 dollars more than someone else for extra stuff that definitely was not worth 35 dollars. But I and others paid it because we knew it would result in a better game. We didn't mind that that better game was also available to the people who only paid $30, or even less in a sale some day. Speaking of sales, your view would seem to be against that concept as well, wouldn't it? If I bought the game on release and paid $50, but someone else bought the game a few years later for only $15, how is that fair? They got the same game as me but paid way less. It's fair because the game's development was collectively funded by all its sales. BIS did not produce a better game just for me for my money, or a worse game for someone who paid less. BIS produced a game, everyone paid to make it happen. Having extras given to people who pay for things like DLC are incentives to make this happen.

I didn't mind the supporter edition at all. Why? Because there was a choice. You could (and apparently did) choose to pay more while receiving more. i didn't, i just got a cheaper version. With the DLC there is no choice. i can't choose to pay a lower amount, it's either you pay the whole thing, or you don't... yet still get 90% of the DLC.. ok.. "Having extras given to people who pay for things like DLC are incentives to make this happen." Where exactly are those extras? the 2 helicopters which don't add that much seeing how we have a vast modding community that have already added helicopters that fill the exact same role(with the aesthetics that a majority seems to prefer a.k.a not "futuristic") ?

Edit: Sorry for the rambling, I've realized half way that I don't care about trying to convince you anymore.

Not that there was ever a chance of that happening, but that's fine. A good read anyway and nice to see how passionate you are. Just can't help but feel that some people need to take off their rose tinted glasses around here. But i guess that'll only get me accusations of being a hater.

[lev 21]

I didn't mind the supporter edition at all. Why? Because there was a choice. You could (and apparently did) choose to pay more while receiving more. i didn't, i just got a cheaper version. With the DLC there is no choice.

What do you mean you don't have a choice? Here is your choice: buy the DLC and you get access to fly those additional helicopters or do not buy the DLC and you do not get to fly those helicopters. Pretty simple.

i can't choose to pay a lower amount, it's either you pay the whole thing, or you don't... yet still get 90% of the DLC.. ok..

This isn't a humble bundle package; you don't get to choose how much you want to pay - I'm not even sure what made you think you have this right?? Maybe you never read the post BIS made when they came out with their new DLC strategy, but here is how it works. A3 DLC has two main components: major engine updates and new content. Engine updates come free for everyone, you pay to get access to the content. I don't understand your confusion with this concept?

If you think $15 is too much to pay for access to the helicopters, then don't pay for it. BIS isn't forcing you to and you aren't gonna lose the ability to play with 100% of the community. BTW I don't know how long you've been around but this DLC strategy is primarily from feedback from the community. The Arma modding community has always been better at making content (e.g. models, skins, army collections, and missions) than BIS has been. The things the modding community couldn't do as well were engine updates like AFM or ZEUS type things. It is good for the community that BIS is starting to recognize this fact and is switching their focus to improving the engine over working on adding new maps or campaigns. It is also very cool that they've figured out a way to pay for developing these updates without splitting the community or forcing everyone to pay.

[goaz 11]

I am not going to give BI not a single more euro untill they release a new GAME....arma3 disappointed mayn of us including myself, only BLIND people can't figure out/they don't want to , that a big part of ARMA community is very upset and pissed off because of a FAILED GAME.

BIS knew very well that the entire futuristic shit has not been WELL ACCEPTED by the community, they're well aware and despite it they keep asking for MONEY.

Well dear Sirs, fuck you!!!

The path they took (with futuristic scenario) and expensive useless DLC has already broken the community.

[rakowozz 14]

Wow, people are actually complaining about getting free features? And a DLC that won't split the community?

[jgaz-uk 132]

Extremely quiet night i'd say! :p

Atleast pubs don't sell you the 2 pints and then go right you can look at them but its another fiver to drink it!

You didn't pay for the first 2 pints dude, they were free to look at, you jut pay to drink, as normal.. :bounce3:

Giving your money to Bis in not obligatory, the choice is yours.