13€ DLC, hefty price for 2 choppers

[benargee 20]

Sling loading, does that mean that a chopper can lift more then one item?

With scripting, yes. Default, no, but why would you want too? Are you the same guy who goes to battle with a LMG, RPG, and a huge backpack filled to the teets with grenades and rockets?

[vegeta897 13]

This is a response to everyone who views the DLC as "15 dollars for 2 choppers".

It's funny how BIS changing up the DLC formula has so many people confused about how things work.

People seem to think that making the features free means that the features required little to no work to implement, or have no actual value. I do not understand this logic. The same amount of work went into this DLC whether they had chosen to charge for all of it or just the choppers. The amount of work that went into all of the DLC, free or not free, is what determines its value. And the amount of work needs to be justified by making money from it to pay the employees for their work. No matter what parts of the DLC BIS decides to give away, that basic formula is unchanged. But so many people seem to have forgotten that. This new "features are free" model has thrown these people for a loop, and logic has gone out the window.

Giving BIS money in exchange for access to the rest of the DLC is not the same thing as walking into a convenience store and buying a candy bar. This is about supporting an indie developer so they can justify making DLC, expansions, and free updates in the first place. The game is directly improved by your support. Buying a lot of candy bars, however, doesn't make them taste better. It's just a product you pay to eat. Viewing the DLC as paying for 2 candy bars and ignoring the rest of the equation is just choosing to ignore the whole picture. If you like the features that you were given for free, you can ensure that more is to come by supporting the developer. The reward for your purchase goes beyond the immediate.

Not caring about supporting the developer but also being angry about the price of improving your experience (or the state of the game in general) are directly contradictory positions. Either you want a better game or you do not. The game can only improve if BIS works on it, and they can only work on it if they stay in business. Do not let free features warp that reality. Employees were paid to make those features, just as the ones who created the choppers were.

[avfc 10]

We do not owe the company anything, i find posts like the one above pretty funny. We should be able to want a better game without paying for new DLC every few months, its a shame BI like so many game companies have taken the route of DLC and grabbing every bit of cash they can out of people.

If you want to buy it fine but the "supporting the developer" stuff is absolute rubbish, did i not support the developer when i bought this and many of their other games or do i have to buy all the DLC and everything else to prove it?

[enex 11]

We do not owe the company anything, i find posts like the one above pretty funny. We should be able to want a better game without paying for new DLC every few months, its a shame BI like so many game companies have taken the route of DLC and grabbing every bit of cash they can out of people.

If you want to buy it fine but the "supporting the developer" stuff is absolute rubbish, did i not support the developer when i bought this and many of their other games or do i have to buy all the DLC and everything else to prove it?

At the same time they don't own us anything so why have they decided to make features free and content paid.

They aren't company like EA or others - they are developers and publishers at the same time while EA

for example is just publisher.Unlike them and others BI cares about player base.They said that they want to prevent

split of MP playerbase.Further bootcamp was for free.Zeus was for free.

[jinzor 31]

I think I'm going to wait until the price lowers. Who really cares about time trials? They're really boring. If this DLC actually added some proper missions with a story which featured the new flight models + helicopters in the DLC (e.g. during the East Wind campaign, you're a random pilot who performs CAS missions or transport/support missions with helicopters, adding more depth to the original story), then I would have bought it in a second (before you say anything, no, I am not making my own missions for that. I am busy enough as it is and do not have the time what with my university degree).

Edited June 8, 2015 by Jinzor

[bigpickle 0]

This is about supporting an indie developer so they can justify making DLC, expansions, and free updates in the first place. The game is directly improved by your support.

You should know better, you've been here long enough. The links in 90% of the modding community members signitures moot your statement that the game is improved by our support.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Bigpickle

[chiefboatsret 14]

I don't understand all the bitching, Don't want it? Don't buy it.

[Sneakers O'Toole 2]

This is a response to everyone who views the DLC as "15 dollars for 2 choppers".

It's funny how BIS changing up the DLC formula has so many people confused about how things work.

People seem to think that making the features free means that the features required little to no work to implement, or have no actual value. I do not understand this logic. The same amount of work went into this DLC whether they had chosen to charge for all of it or just the choppers. The amount of work that went into all of the DLC, free or not free, is what determines its value. And the amount of work needs to be justified by making money from it to pay the employees for their work. No matter what parts of the DLC BIS decides to give away, that basic formula is unchanged. But so many people seem to have forgotten that. This new "features are free" model has thrown these people for a loop, and logic has gone out the window.

Giving BIS money in exchange for access to the rest of the DLC is not the same thing as walking into a convenience store and buying a candy bar. This is about supporting an indie developer so they can justify making DLC, expansions, and free updates in the first place. The game is directly improved by your support. Buying a lot of candy bars, however, doesn't make them taste better. It's just a product you pay to eat. Viewing the DLC as paying for 2 candy bars and ignoring the rest of the equation is just choosing to ignore the whole picture. If you like the features that you were given for free, you can ensure that more is to come by supporting the developer. The reward for your purchase goes beyond the immediate.

Not caring about supporting the developer but also being angry about the price of improving your experience (or the state of the game in general) are directly contradictory positions. Either you want a better game or you do not. The game can only improve if BIS works on it, and they can only work on it if they stay in business. Do not let free features warp that reality. Employees were paid to make those features, just as the ones who created the choppers were.

A business model that relies on 'donations' is ridiculous. They are a corporate entity, the dlc is not value for money, I can have everything that someone who pays £10 gets, minus 2 helis for free. If you're going to sell something then it's better be value for money or 'your're gonna have a bad time.'

[avfc 10]

At the same time they don't own us anything so why have they decided to make features free and content paid.

They aren't company like EA or others - they are developers and publishers at the same time while EA

for example is just publisher.Unlike them and others BI cares about player base.They said that they want to prevent

split of MP playerbase.Further bootcamp was for free.Zeus was for free.

They weren't "free" at all we have all paid for the game, as if bootcamp is some kind of feature? :D If they want to sell a game then yes they do "owe us" if we buy it actually. They owe us a game that works properly and is fixed over a year after release before they start trying to charge me £11 pounds for 2 new helicopters. That money is absolutely nothing to a lot of people but its the principle, ive always hated DLC and the way companies try and scrape every last penny off you for something you've already paid for and then exclude you from stuff because you refuse to pay for it.

My issue isnt whether you buy it or not though the above is just my opinion on it its posts like the one i replied too that are total rubbish.

[jandrews 116]

I don't understand all the bitching, Don't want it? Don't buy it.

I guess this is too simplistic to understand because they are bitching about $25.

DONT FREAKIN BUY IT.

[Green- 10]

The fact that they have barely any content, its in Beta (Thank you bohema for letting us beta test :P) and that this is 13£ is stupid. Honestly one would expect it to never be launched.. Can everyone just not buy it and use mods instead please? BIS turned into activision..

QUICK EDIT: Also honestly how much money didnt they make the past 3 years? Do I need to say DayZ? Do I have to remind you that they gave away 500000-200000£?

Edited November 4, 2014 by Green|

[chompster 29]

I don't understand all the bitching, Don't want it? Don't buy it.

We obviously do want it, many of us even already do, which is why we're here to voice our opinion/dislike about it. Why would we be here to complain about something we didn't like? That makes absolutely no sense. At least read the thread before jumping on the bandwagon.

This is a response to everyone who views the DLC as "15 dollars for 2 choppers".

It's funny how BIS changing up the DLC formula has so many people confused about how things work.

People seem to think that making the features free means that the features required little to no work to implement, or have no actual value. I do not understand this logic. The same amount of work went into this DLC whether they had chosen to charge for all of it or just the choppers. The amount of work that went into all of the DLC, free or not free, is what determines its value. And the amount of work needs to be justified by making money from it to pay the employees for their work. No matter what parts of the DLC BIS decides to give away, that basic formula is unchanged. But so many people seem to have forgotten that. This new "features are free" model has thrown these people for a loop, and logic has gone out the window.

Giving BIS money in exchange for access to the rest of the DLC is not the same thing as walking into a convenience store and buying a candy bar. This is about supporting an indie developer so they can justify making DLC, expansions, and free updates in the first place. The game is directly improved by your support. Buying a lot of candy bars, however, doesn't make them taste better. It's just a product you pay to eat. Viewing the DLC as paying for 2 candy bars and ignoring the rest of the equation is just choosing to ignore the whole picture. If you like the features that you were given for free, you can ensure that more is to come by supporting the developer. The reward for your purchase goes beyond the immediate.

Not caring about supporting the developer but also being angry about the price of improving your experience (or the state of the game in general) are directly contradictory positions. Either you want a better game or you do not. The game can only improve if BIS works on it, and they can only work on it if they stay in business. Do not let free features warp that reality. Employees were paid to make those features, just as the ones who created the choppers were.

Then why give away 90% of the DLC that others are paying for for free? Why shouldn't those people "support" the devs by paying for what they're getting? Because it splits the community. Right. That is a bad thing. But really what community are you splitting up? Seeing how little $16 means to so many of you, if you really liked the series you'd have bought it anyway, and those that don't are most likely those playing Altis life or something that has little or nothing to do with Arma. Is that the community they should be concerned about?

And though this is of course no excuse, features still take time to make and need to be done by someone, but really.. it's been 10 years since FFV and the way they did their "rope physics" have been done. One could easily argue that these are features that should have simply been part of the game since the start. One of which was even suppose to, the flight model. At least i sure expected them to be, or was all that support from their previous titles worthless? Haven't seen much of that yet. Will it take another 5 years of support before we get weapon resting and/or bi-pods?

Just to be clear, i do agree with some of the things you said vegeta897 (to a certain degree) in the end someone does need to be paid for the work that they did. But if you then go and make pretty much everything free for everyone, then the only things that everyone doesn't get is what you're really paying for. And that's my issue with this whole thing. Otherwise they're expecting me(and others, you) to go and pay for other people, which is not what my money is suppose to go to.

With scripting, yes. Default, no, but why would you want too?

Because it's an actual thing?

http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_CH-47Ds_Lifting_HMMWVs_lg.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/080301-F-2207D-394.jpg

http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_CH-47_Dutch_w_Underslung_lg.jpg

Edited November 4, 2014 by Chompster

[Dwarden 1124]

if you support us with the buy of DLCs or packs or expansions then You more likely get more in the future

if you don't support us then You ay get less in the 'unclear' future (except the already announced roadmap) ...

the DLC linked features are free, some content isn't (restricted partially of fully (some scenarios))

you don't need the DLC to play and enjoy the game

[vegeta897 13]

We do not owe the company anything, i find posts like the one above pretty funny. We should be able to want a better game without paying for new DLC every few months, its a shame BI like so many game companies have taken the route of DLC and grabbing every bit of cash they can out of people.

If you want to buy it fine but the "supporting the developer" stuff is absolute rubbish, did i not support the developer when i bought this and many of their other games or do i have to buy all the DLC and everything else to prove it?

When did I say we owed the company anything? It's like you didn't even read my post. They owe us when we support them. By buying the DLC, they don't only give you helicopters, but continue to expand upon the game. They need sales in order to do this. Things like basic bug fixes are obviously owed regardless of DLC, but I'm talking about things added to the game that were not there or announced when it released, and we've gotten plenty of those already and continue to get them. You supported the developer by buying the game and you got a game. If you weren't happy with the game you got when you paid, that's too bad, but you can't expect them to work for free to live up to your expectations.

You should know better, you've been here long enough. The links in 90% of the modding community members signitures moot your statement that the game is improved by our support.

Dunno if this is dry humor or not, but if you think Arma 3 would be in its current state of continuing feature and content growth without support by the community, you're just naive. How do you think a business works?

A business model that relies on 'donations' is ridiculous. They are a corporate entity, the dlc is not value for money, I can have everything that someone who pays £10 gets, minus 2 helis for free. If you're going to sell something then it's better be value for money or 'your're gonna have a bad time.'

Donations? In what universe does paying a company for their work equate to a donation? Why does making part of a DLC free to everyone convert its purchase into a donation suddenly? It's fine if you don't want to pay that money. But like I said, you're not just paying to get 2 helicopters. BIS creating and selling DLC is not just them selling a product in a vaccum. Selling DLC is a method of sustaining a business model that involves working on the game (more than just bug fixes) well after it's released. They don't need everyone to buy the DLC for it to work, but the more that do, the more they can put into the game.

Then why give away 90% of the DLC that others are paying for for free?[/b

This is sort of straying from the topic, but I could list a couple reasons. For one, some of these features are things the Arma community in general would not be happy having to pay for. Things like shooting from vehicles, that if they were implemented before DLC was a thing, they would not have been part of a DLC. As you said, it's the kind of thing that should have been in "since the start". Second, it's a great way to entice buyers. "Enjoy shooting from vehicles and sling loading? Well, we have more helicopters that you can do those things with."

Just to be clear, i do agree with some of the things you said vegeta897 (to a certain degree) in the end someone does need to be paid for the work that they did. But if you then go and make pretty much everything free for everyone, then the only things that everyone doesn't get is what you're really paying for. And that's my issue with this whole thing. Otherwise they're expecting me(and others, you) to go and pay for other people, which is not what my money is suppose to go to.

A good point, but again I feel it's a warped way of viewing things. Any money you give to the developers is support, and any support is going to result in a better game for everybody, no matter who paid for what. You can't not benefit other people when you buy BIS's games. People who bought DayZ helped Arma 3 players and vice versa (both in budget and staff hiring). The money made from DLC is not just to fund the work that was done on that DLC. You're giving your money to a company that makes awesome things, you can't choose what and where your money goes to within the company. It's not like they say "okay we made $50,000 from selling this DLC, let's divide it up among the people that worked on it". So to view buying the DLC as paying for the benefit of people that didn't buy it is a distorted view, in my opinion. Everyone buying anything from BIS benefits everyone.

[cosmic10r 2320]

I bought the dlc bundle...

There is no other game that comes close to my beloved Ghost Recon, Desert Siege or Island Thunder.

This is it and I'm happy to support them... I bought bf3 and 4 by pre order. .. now that was an empty feeling...

[Dirtylarry 10]

No i asked because we already had slingloading, you fly over something, pick lift and your vehicle hang under your chopper. So i didn't see the big deal with sling loading :)

lmg rpg?

I use MK18 with 10 mags, PCML with 4 rockets, medic kit and 5 first aid, and then i fly in with my hummingbird that have a slingloaded T100 under it, drop it off when i get close the the action and then i go to work. Ready for anything :)

On my favorite server the hummingbird have flares so it is a nice set up :D

[Remon 10]

A business model that relies on 'donations' is ridiculous. They are a corporate entity, the dlc is not value for money, I can have everything that someone who pays £10 gets, minus 2 helis for free. If you're going to sell something then it's better be value for money or 'your're gonna have a bad time.'

You're right. Just release the fucking features inside the DLCs for 30 bucks, because that makes more sense to sneakers.

[nerdwing 13]

$16 is too steep IMO.

I'd say that with a campaign or some such attached, it'd become worth that price-tag. As is, I'd be hard-pressed to price it at $10. A campaign, or a good handful of single missions using the aircraft would even out the pricing nicely I think.

[eymerich 11]

if you support us with the buy of DLCs or packs or expansions then You more likely get more in the future

if you don't support us then You ay get less in the 'unclear' future (except the already announced roadmap) ...

While I understand the choice of Bis, aimed to keep his comunity (free content 90%/paid content 10%), as customer, your statement doesn't look good to me.

If you say: "if you don't support the game then it doesn't get better" i can asnwer: "No problem. If the game doesn't match my expectations anymore then it's not worth my time and my money".

Considering I'am with Bis since opf, this means you are loosing a long date customer.

[Haystack15 10]

Also, here's some good news:

Added: CH-67 Huron

Added: Huron black variant

Added: Huron cargo container

Added: Huron medical container

Added: Huron repair container

Added: Huron fuel container

Added: Huron ammo container

Added: Mi-290 Taru

Added: Taru black variants (not accessible without scripting)

Added: Taru with transport pod

Added: Taru with special-purpose bench pod

Added: Taru with medical pod

Added: Taru with cargo pod

Added: Taru with repair pod

Added: Taru with fuel pod

Added: Taru with ammo pod

Added: M-900

Added: P-30 Orca black / white weapon variant

Added: Flexible tank (2 items)

Added: Cargo net with crates (5 items)

Added: Smaller containers (12 items)

Added: Portable helipad lights (5 items)

Added: Helicopter big cover bag

Added: Water and fuel bladder (4 items)

Added: Secondary containment (4 items)

Added: Wheel pull device (2 items)

Added: Discharge stick

Added: Rigging rope

Added: Intake plug (5 items)

Added: Pitot cover

Added: Pressure washer

Added: Wheeled scaffolding

Added: Wheeled tool kart

Added: Portable engine crane

Added: Diesel Ground Power Unit

Added: Jet Engine Air Start Unit

Added: Water pump

Added: Wheel chocks

Added: Windsock

Added: Landing platform

Added: Welding cart

Added: Welding tank

Added: Gas tank (3 items)

Added: Wheelie Bin

Added: Aircon (‘Outside part’)

Added: Transport boxes (6 items)

Added: Pallet trolley

Added: Office table (2 items)

Added: Office chair

Added: Office cabinet

Added: Rattan table and chair (2 items)

Added: Refrigerator

Added: Tableware (9 items)

Added: Microwave

Added: Workbench

Added: Flat-screen TV

Added: Camera

Added: Desktop PC (4 items)

Added: PC printer

Added: Projector

Added: Portable speaker(s)

Added: Game console (4 items)

Added: HDMI cable

Added: Tablet

Added: Sport balls (5 items)

Added: Baseball mitt

This is all the paid content for the DLC. The M-900 is a civilian variant (WITH DOORS YAY!) of the xh-9 family, and we get a new variant for the orca (it is armed). Then you also get a lot of sandbox content (which I particulary enjoy...because I've spend hours putting racks in shops with zeus and mcc before...). Then we also have the missions and showcases which haven't been released on dev-branch. So that is what you're paying for.

Yes, because the #1 thing I need in my Arma DLC's is a HDMI Cable

[dmarkwick 261]

We do not owe the company anything, i find posts like the one above pretty funny. We should be able to want a better game without paying for new DLC every few months, its a shame BI like so many game companies have taken the route of DLC and grabbing every bit of cash they can out of people.

They're only selling addons to a game, same as plenty of other game companies.

If you want to buy it fine but the "supporting the developer" stuff is absolute rubbish, did i not support the developer when i bought this and many of their other games or do i have to buy all the DLC and everything else to prove it?

You don't need to prove a thing :) what you got is what you paid for. If you feel that BI should hand you the new assets developed since release then I guess that's just your view on what you believe you're entitled to. This new content represents extra-game assets, they're not required to play the (sp) game and as such are not a game requirement.

Honestly guys, if you feel it's too expensive, just... don't buy it. It really is as simple as that.

[avfc 10]

They're only selling addons to a game, same as plenty of other game companies.

Which is exactly what i said in the post you responded to no? Because lots of other companies do it then its ok i guess. Oh and vegeta i did read your post and i'm not surprised thats the only thing you could come up with as a response.

[steelgrave 10]

An easy add-on would have been a Blackfoot version with pylons, maybe even in a black colour scheme ...

Would not have been that much extra work, but nice little value add add-on.

Edited November 5, 2014 by SteelGrave

[jgaz-uk 130]

There is a lot more new stuff in there than just 2 Helos, take a look in the editor! So you pay £10 to make full use, its the price of a quiet night out in the pub FFS dudes. If that's what it takes to keep Bis in buisness, not a problem, I've had more than my monies worth over the last 10 years

[defk0n_NL 2]

if you support us with the buy of DLCs or packs or expansions then You more likely get more in the future

if you don't support us then You ay get less in the 'unclear' future (except the already announced roadmap) ...

the DLC linked features are free, some content isn't (restricted partially of fully (some scenarios))

you don't need the DLC to play and enjoy the game

ay, its never enough it seems.

BIS cannot just charge for internal engine upgrades like firing from vehicles because it would split the community which they were very clear about not doing.

This game needs more (engine) upgrades like this, even though the DLC looks skimpy it really is not.

Keep it up please.