Firing from Vehicles feedback

[DancZer 65]

It would be good that the player could change the weapon fire mode and the selected grenade in the "normal" seats.

Currently we have to do it before getting into the vehicles, or after disembark.

Can we have this at release or post release?

[devilslayersbane 28]

Gutsnav, the door animations are only visual. Even if they are open, the physical geometry of the vehicle is still the same as when doors are closed. This means there are invisible walls and nothing can collide with the doors sticking out from the vehicle.

If I interpret pettka right, then the problem is not the detail of the geo lod, but the performance hit that comes from making the game engine capable to handle animated geo lods. This could mean that the performance impact applies to any object, not only vehicles where you can open doors. Not entirely sure though.

This is somewhat true. However, on the helo's and the ifrit that doors were enabled on, it was possible to shoot into the vehicle. Grenades may not have been able to go through, though. I should test this later.

[Brisse 78]

The projectiles from your rifle or whatever you used probably managed to penetrate the invisible wall but I'm sure the wall was still there. It's like the window on a car. You can shoot through it, but you can't throw grenade. Still, it will affect the projectile when it passes through.

[bad benson 1733]

i think it's more due to the fact that throwable physX objects like grenades get stopped by the physX lod and bullets by the fire geo lod. so tehy probably only customised one of the lods resulting in the grenade thing.

It would be good that the player could change the weapon fire mode and the selected grenade in the "normal" seats.

Currently we have to do it before getting into the vehicles, or after disembark.

i second that. before we get caught up in things that probably won't happen for whatever reason, there should also be a focus on the very basics that are not present yet either.

[Brisse 78]

New helicopters released on devbranch, and there's animated ramps whithout invisible walls. Interesting :)

[chortles 263]

New helicopters released on devbranch, and there's animated ramps whithout invisible walls. Interesting :)

Were you able to chuck bullets, grenades, missiles and/or rockets inside the cabin to kill/wound the passengers?

[Brisse 78]

Bullets and grenades worked just fine. The other's I did not try.

[CaptainObvious 95]

I wasn't able to kill passengers inside the Huron cabin, bullets seem to hit an invisible wall when the ramp is open, grenades on the other hand land nicely inside the helo, just the explosion doesn't kill the passengers.

[chortles 263]

Apparently it's not walkable either.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Good news however, the FFV resolution for having open able doors, is already present with the new helicopters. First off, the back of the Mohawk, you can shoot at the ramp from the outside, and the bullets hit. When the ramp of the Mohawk is down, THE BULLETS GO INSIDE AND HIT STUFF INSIDE! It Works! Not only that, but you can do the same with the Taru. You can shoot from the back when the ramp is down, and when it's up, your safe to just chill. So having the Orca's doors open able, with the two possible seats, is more than feasible.

EDIT: BIS, if you could, when the ramp closes, and your not focusing on shooting things, can you lift off from the head movement restrictions a bit? When the ramp is closed, the view is still restricted to the ramp.

[enex 11]

Good news however, the FFV resolution for having open able doors, is already present with the new helicopters. First off, the back of the Mohawk, you can shoot at the ramp from the outside, and the bullets hit. When the ramp of the Mohawk is down, THE BULLETS GO INSIDE AND HIT STUFF INSIDE! It Works! Not only that, but you can do the same with the Taru. You can shoot from the back when the ramp is down, and when it's up, your safe to just chill. So having the Orca's doors open able, with the two possible seats, is more than feasible.

EDIT: BIS, if you could, when the ramp closes, and your not focusing on shooting things, can you lift off from the head movement restrictions a bit? When the ramp is closed, the view is still restricted to the ramp.

Shouldn't freelook be normal when you lower you weapon? (holding weapon up whole time is not realistic anyway)

I mean the way the helis work.

[2nd ranger 282]

It should be but currently it's not. Your head is pointed toward the ramp even if your weapon is lowered. You can freelook using your freelook key, but you shouldn't have to.

Also, I guess it will be improved, but currently when firing from FFV positions in the new helicopters, the attenuation effect makes your shots muffled as if they were coming from outside.

[enex 11]

Zamak, Tempest and HEMMT (open/covered) but HEMMT open on left shooting position have skewed views when pressing double CTR (free look).

From gameplay standpoint you are not using guns on the back of vehicles for at least 50% of playing time so while you have no threats you want to

look around.With skewed view that is quite negative.

[petek 62]

I wasn't able to kill passengers inside the Huron cabin, bullets seem to hit an invisible wall when the ramp is open, grenades on the other hand land nicely inside the helo, just the explosion doesn't kill the passengers.

Yep - noticed that for the OPFOR heavy you can shoot into it and toss a frag but it drops through the floor

[deltagamer 612]

Is there any documentation on implementing the "Fire From Vehicle" proxy and config with a mod? I was hoping to add it to my Stryker Mod however I'm not sure how to go about doing so. Any help on the matter would be great.

[maddogx 13]

Is there any documentation on implementing the "Fire From Vehicle" proxy and config with a mod? I was hoping to add it to my Stryker Mod however I'm not sure how to go about doing so. Any help on the matter would be great.

According to the tools changelog, a sample model with FFV functionality has been added recently, so you should be able to check that out and see how it works. :)

[deltagamer 612]

According to the tools changelog, a sample model with FFV functionality has been added recently, so you should be able to check that out and see how it works. :)

Is that for the development tools or stable? I currently can't see it. I'll force an update to see if I can get a different result.

Don't mind me, silly question :beeeers:

Edited October 20, 2014 by deltagamer

[maddogx 13]

Is that for the development tools or stable? I currently can't see it. I'll force an update to see if I can get a different result.

Sorry, yeah it's the tools dev branch.

EDIT: most recent post moved to the editing forum, where it's more appropriate. :)

Edited October 21, 2014 by MadDogX

[pettka 694]

New helicopters released on devbranch, and there's animated ramps whithout invisible walls. Interesting :)

Yep, as I have said before, we have come to the conclusion that having just the ramps isn't such a performance hit. Still, having fifty Mohawks colliding with each other isn't a good idea for steady FPS rate :icon_twisted:

For some further explanation, the PhysX lod of model must be as simple as possible, adding more parts to produce a hollow mesh causes some rather nasty performance hit I was describing. And yes, it was 17 % FPS down with just the ramp solution, not any other doors working in PhysX :icon_evil:

[petek 62]

Thanks for the info petka. Will the ramp be fixed in the Huron? Ie cant shoot into the cabin interior....

Cheers

[bad benson 1733]

Yep, as I have said before, we have come to the conclusion that having just the ramps isn't such a performance hit. Still, having fifty Mohawks colliding with each other isn't a good idea for steady FPS rate :icon_twisted:

For some further explanation, the PhysX lod of model must be as simple as possible, adding more parts to produce a hollow mesh causes some rather nasty performance hit I was describing. And yes, it was 17 % FPS down with just the ramp solution, not any other doors working in PhysX :icon_evil:

hm. if this is mainly about the physX lod, why not exclude it? i mean is being able to throw grenades inside really that important? i think shooting (fire geo lod) is much more important and frequently happening. sure people will bitch about it but let's be honest. how many times do you really throw a grenade inside a chopper in arma? i think it's best to focus on the most likely scenarios. on cars it might be more needed maybe. though, imho it's just more of a "cool to have" and "would be bad ass to be able to" things that rarely ever happen in a game like arma. maybe i play the wrong gamemodes though :D

i guess my main point is. rather exclude physX lod than not do the feature at all. it's better to have shooting inside, doors and ramps and shooting from them but not being able to throw nades inside than having none of latter at all.

just my thoughts on it.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

how many times do you really throw a grenade inside a chopper in arma?

More often than you collide 50 helicopters with eachother at the same time.

If the performance problem is so specific and rare to be taken into consideration for exclusion of a feature, what about the performance of other things that halve your FPS like 5 PiP's in a car or a few smoke grenades or any large number of vehicles as is colliding with eachother or 50 ragdoll entities in the same place, etc.

Consider me surprised. To me, a glaring issue for, let's say not allowing walking people in the cargo bays of helicopters is that the cargo units in the helo will observe a unit on foot inside the helo rendered behind the helo. No walking in vehicles, no bug reports on the tracker to deal with, no problem.

[Smurf 12]

But then AI.

:rolleyes:

[roshnak 41]

But then AI.

:rolleyes:

What about it?

[bad benson 1733]

More often than you collide 50 helicopters with eachother at the same time.

If the performance problem is so specific and rare to be taken into consideration for exclusion of a feature, what about the performance of other things that halve your FPS like 5 PiP's in a car or a few smoke grenades or any large number of vehicles as is colliding with eachother or 50 ragdoll entities in the same place, etc.

Consider me surprised. To me, a glaring issue for, let's say not allowing walking people in the cargo bays of helicopters is that the cargo units in the helo will observe a unit on foot inside the helo rendered behind the helo. No walking in vehicles, no bug reports on the tracker to deal with, no problem.

good points and basically exactly what my point was.

hence "it's better to have shooting into, doors and ramps and shooting from them but not being able to throw nades inside than having none of latter at all."

if i could decide, there would be all the mentioned features in there since as i said before the performance benchmark of 10 choppers is totally unrealistic for normal arma play. BUT. if the reasoning behind not having doors open at all is that you could on the one hand shoot through them but not throw nades through them then i would gladly take "no nades" over "no animated doors AT ALL".