Bohemia Interactive please comment on whats hindering you to introduce Ponds to Arma3

[seba1976 98]

@DarkSideSixOfficial Hey buddy, BIS took away the ponds, don't you think they took all you can imagine into consideration before doing such a dramatic step back from the previous title? Without changing a lot of core parts of the engine, the ponds can't be there, that's BIS' conclussion, not mine. Give them some credit, woud you?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

@DarkSideSixOfficial Hey buddy, BIS took away the ponds, don't you think they took all you can imagine into consideration before doing such a dramatic step back from the previous title? Without changing a lot of core parts of the engine, the ponds can't be there, that's BIS' conclussion, not mine. Give them some credit, woud you?

Aye... I suppose your right.

[malcom86 33]

I hope Suma would at least come back temporarily to fix the slo-mo rabbits in addition to the pond problem. And frown at the toiling 20-something minions concentrating on Karts, Time Trials, and impossible Challenges until female units, AI drivers that can back up tanks normally, terrain furniture, official SP scenarios, and the

are implemented. :rolleyes:

I think everyone would hope so. Those karts were just a joke, something after 5 minutes was yet forgot.

@DarkSideSixOfficial Hey buddy, BIS took away the ponds, don't you think they took all you can imagine into consideration before doing such a dramatic step back from the previous title? Without changing a lot of core parts of the engine, the ponds can't be there, that's BIS' conclussion, not mine. Give them some credit, woud you?

I'm sure too about it...that's why I said it's sad if they can't work on their own game just because a developer left. An AI core improvement would be great as far as FPS optimization, especially because Arma is always been mostly a Players vs AI game.

But maybe they just wish to finish releasing the announced DLC (marksmen will be the last), than they will start to work to improve the existing contents. I hope so, at least...obviously it's my supposition, more or less contestable.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Malcom86

[lightspeed_aust 681]

I just don't think the coders have the skill set unfortunately. That's not meant as an insult becoz ICT is a huge field and you can't know everything about everything IT. But I just don't think they have the coders with enough knowledge of the engine whereas someone like Suma obviously did.

[dr. hladik 231]

I hope the fact they can't access AI core is not true at all...^^

It is not true.

[seba1976 98]

It is not true.

May I ask you then why you're not working on AI core behaviour?

[pettka 694]

May I ask you then why you're not working on AI core behaviour?

This thread should provide You with correct answers even to incorrect questions :icon_twisted:

[malcom86 33]

This thread should provide You with correct answers even to incorrect questions :icon_twisted:

Thanks for replying !! That thread answers pretty well many questions :)

Still waiting for ponds, anyway ;P but I'm glad to see such a thread exist. Sorry I found out just now...great work you're doing there.

[pettka 694]

Sorry for the inadequate tone, this valuable thread seemed to go off-topic even despite Dr. Hladik has already stated our intentions before. We do read the thread and we do take the posts into account :icon_twisted:

[seba1976 98]

This thread should provide You with correct answers even to incorrect questions :icon_twisted:

Please tell me you wrote that whole thread in like an hour ago, just to probe me wrong.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Please tell me you wrote that whole thread in like an hour ago, just to probe me wrong.

July of 2013 is when that thread was created i believe. But anyhow, though BIS has probably not returned to ponds as of yet, i'm certainly positive they are willing to conquer it at some point in time.

[seba1976 98]

July of 2013 is when that thread was created i believe. But anyhow, though BIS has probably not returned to ponds as of yet, i'm certainly positive they are willing to conquer it at some point in time.

Oh I'm waiting for my déjà vu anytime. They changed something...

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Oh I'm waiting for my déjà vu anytime. They changed something...

Something? What do you mean.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Something? What do you mean.

I think he references to the

scene in the matrix. ;)

[Alwarren 2765]

It is not true.

May I then mention these very frustrating AI issues that are in dire need of fixing?

- Divers are detected underwater by everyone as if they were standing in an open field. Making a water insertion undetected is impossible, since everybody sees your SDV, or even a single diver, even if deeply submerged. They need to be virtually undetectable.

- Mines are way too easily detected by both players and AI. Making a convoy ambush mission with mines is next to impossible. Also, satchel charges are immediately recognized by AI and easily avoided, making any convoy ambush moot.

- More generically, vehicles should not automatically pop up on a chopper's radar just because an enemy is in it. Getting into a civilian car will immediately trigger any AI helicopter to come to you and shoot you. I don't mind things popping up on radar, just don't make it immediately hostile.

- AI Chopper pilots are completely inept at landing. A hot inserting into any area, or a stealthy insertion behind a hill or large structure is pointless since they flare up so high that everybody can and will see and engage them.

- AI drivers should really learn to corner. They have no perception of speed. I had a mission where I tried to have a convoy go around a 90 degree corner on a downhill roat, and the lead vehicle (Marshall APC) never made the corner, not even once. It would always overspeed and fly out of the corner, eventually wrecking the vehicle, with all the following vehicles comically going behind it like ducklings. The recent GTA video with the "worst driver ever" would probably have ended quite differently in Arma - namely, the AI would have driven against something, tried to floor the pedal, and finally said "can't get there". Yeah, as you can see, I am very frustrated about this.

- AI under player control is extremely slow to react to commands. A human team leader's orders should seriously be followed without questioning. If I order my AI to get into a vehicle, they should do that without doing their usual "run-go prone-get up-run" routine.

Seriously, these issues are regularly spoiling missions. Not only that, they are spoiling concepts. More than once I had to scrap a promising mission idea just because it was impossible to implement because of the AI. I appreciate the fact that there has been work done on the AI, but I feel like some very pressing issues have been completely ignored, for whatever reason.

Maybe it is because they're not needed in Altis Life, but I beg to remember that Arma used to be a military shooter, and not only do the above issues very much affect Co-Op in a negative way, they also very much ruin the game for a lot of single player scenarios.

[seba1976 98]

I think he references to the

scene in the matrix. ;)

Yep, I guess I'm getting old. Or DarkSideSixOficial never went to a movie :p.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

May I then mention these very frustrating AI issues that are in dire need of fixing?

- Divers are detected underwater by everyone as if they were standing in an open field. Making a water insertion undetected is impossible, since everybody sees your SDV, or even a single diver, even if deeply submerged. They need to be virtually undetectable.

- Mines are way too easily detected by both players and AI. Making a convoy ambush mission with mines is next to impossible. Also, satchel charges are immediately recognized by AI and easily avoided, making any convoy ambush moot.

- More generically, vehicles should not automatically pop up on a chopper's radar just because an enemy is in it. Getting into a civilian car will immediately trigger any AI helicopter to come to you and shoot you. I don't mind things popping up on radar, just don't make it immediately hostile.

- AI Chopper pilots are completely inept at landing. A hot inserting into any area, or a stealthy insertion behind a hill or large structure is pointless since they flare up so high that everybody can and will see and engage them.

- AI drivers should really learn to corner. They have no perception of speed. I had a mission where I tried to have a convoy go around a 90 degree corner on a downhill roat, and the lead vehicle (Marshall APC) never made the corner, not even once. It would always overspeed and fly out of the corner, eventually wrecking the vehicle, with all the following vehicles comically going behind it like ducklings. The recent GTA video with the "worst driver ever" would probably have ended quite differently in Arma - namely, the AI would have driven against something, tried to floor the pedal, and finally said "can't get there". Yeah, as you can see, I am very frustrated about this.

- AI under player control is extremely slow to react to commands. A human team leader's orders should seriously be followed without questioning. If I order my AI to get into a vehicle, they should do that without doing their usual "run-go prone-get up-run" routine.

Seriously, these issues are regularly spoiling missions. Not only that, they are spoiling concepts. More than once I had to scrap a promising mission idea just because it was impossible to implement because of the AI. I appreciate the fact that there has been work done on the AI, but I feel like some very pressing issues have been completely ignored, for whatever reason.

Maybe it is because they're not needed in Altis Life, but I beg to remember that Arma used to be a military shooter, and not only do the above issues very much affect Co-Op in a negative way, they also very much ruin the game for a lot of single player scenarios.

A few things, with mines, are you sure that the enemy doesn't have Mine detector's? That's save my life countless times, i slammed on the breaks of a Zamak as a red triangle appeared in front of me. Second, satchel charges... did you place it directly on the road where usually, one would not expect to see a bag full of explosives? Try placing it offload somewhere, maybe next to a fence where they are not paying attention to.

I do believe it be best BIS bring back the satchel attaching to objects. This way it can make far more interesting use of such items. A restriction such as only explosive specialists being able to attach them to things would combat the whole "Suicide Car" mentality.

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

Yep, I guess I'm getting old. Or DarkSideSixOficial never went to a movie :p.

I've watched very few movies. I have seen that one though, it's been awhile since i watched that.

Back on topic though, i wonder if NVidia has any interesting water related things that they could offer to BI, as i'm certain they use the NVidia related water... Or i could be terribly wrong. But it looks a lot like it.

Edited December 3, 2014 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[OMAC 254]

May I then mention these very frustrating AI issues that are in dire need of fixing?

- Divers are detected underwater by everyone as if they were standing in an open field. Making a water insertion undetected is impossible, since everybody sees your SDV, or even a single diver, even if deeply submerged. They need to be virtually undetectable.

- Mines are way too easily detected by both players and AI. Making a convoy ambush mission with mines is next to impossible. Also, satchel charges are immediately recognized by AI and easily avoided, making any convoy ambush moot.

- More generically, vehicles should not automatically pop up on a chopper's radar just because an enemy is in it. Getting into a civilian car will immediately trigger any AI helicopter to come to you and shoot you. I don't mind things popping up on radar, just don't make it immediately hostile.

- AI Chopper pilots are completely inept at landing. A hot inserting into any area, or a stealthy insertion behind a hill or large structure is pointless since they flare up so high that everybody can and will see and engage them.

- AI drivers should really learn to corner. They have no perception of speed. I had a mission where I tried to have a convoy go around a 90 degree corner on a downhill roat, and the lead vehicle (Marshall APC) never made the corner, not even once. It would always overspeed and fly out of the corner, eventually wrecking the vehicle, with all the following vehicles comically going behind it like ducklings. The recent GTA video with the "worst driver ever" would probably have ended quite differently in Arma - namely, the AI would have driven against something, tried to floor the pedal, and finally said "can't get there". Yeah, as you can see, I am very frustrated about this.

- AI under player control is extremely slow to react to commands. A human team leader's orders should seriously be followed without questioning. If I order my AI to get into a vehicle, they should do that without doing their usual "run-go prone-get up-run" routine.

Seriously, these issues are regularly spoiling missions. Not only that, they are spoiling concepts. More than once I had to scrap a promising mission idea just because it was impossible to implement because of the AI. I appreciate the fact that there has been work done on the AI, but I feel like some very pressing issues have been completely ignored, for whatever reason.

Maybe it is because they're not needed in Altis Life, but I beg to remember that Arma used to be a military shooter, and not only do the above issues very much affect Co-Op in a negative way, they also very much ruin the game for a lot of single player scenarios.

I second the motion. Some of these issues hark back to A2, and perhaps earlier. Where is Suma when you need him? Hopefully the AI isn't a million lines of spaghetti code that only he can decipher. But hey, if it's ok for Altis Life, DayZ, and Karts, then why bother messing with it? :rolleyes:

[Chairborne 2594]

AI helo piloting skills are horrible, and the new shiny helicopters DLC solved nothing.

Both landing and navigation are just awful, not to mention the insane amount of problems AI has when driving land vehicles on roads.

[pettka 694]

Thank you for the input regarding AI issues, it has been noted, try to get back to the topic now or this thread is going to be closed :icon_evil:

[seba1976 98]

Thank you for the input regarding AI issues, it has been noted, try to get back to the topic now or this thread is going to be closed :icon_evil:

Understood. You mind tell us what would be a good place to talk with the people working on these subjects of AI problems, so we can keep us informed about what they are working on now and in the future?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Understood. You mind tell us what would be a good place to talk with the people working on these subjects of AI problems, so we can keep us informed about what they are working on now and in the future?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159710-AI-Discussion-(dev-branch)

Your welcome.

[Alwarren 2765]

A few things, with mines, are you sure that the enemy doesn't have Mine detector's? That's save my life countless times, i slammed on the breaks of a Zamak as a red triangle appeared in front of me.

Yes, I am very sure they do not have a mine detector. It doesn't matter whether they have it or not, they always evade mines.

Second, satchel charges... did you place it directly on the road where usually, one would not expect to see a bag full of explosives? Try placing it offload somewhere, maybe next to a fence where they are not paying attention to.

In reality, you would hide/obscure the satchel charge, but that is not possible here. Even on a dirt road, you cannot dig them in (neither can you do that with mines), so the point is rather moot. The default way to stop a convoy is to place mines for the first vehicle and satchels for the rest, but that doesn't really matter because the convoy will evade the mines, or, if it cannot, it will simply stop.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Yes, I am very sure they do not have a mine detector. It doesn't matter whether they have it or not, they always evade mines.

In reality, you would hide/obscure the satchel charge, but that is not possible here. Even on a dirt road, you cannot dig them in (neither can you do that with mines), so the point is rather moot. The default way to stop a convoy is to place mines for the first vehicle and satchels for the rest, but that doesn't really matter because the convoy will evade the mines, or, if it cannot, it will simply stop.

Alrighty, it'd be awesome if you could bring up that issue in the link i posted a comment ago, that way it's possible to get addressed.

Back on topic though, Pettka, i was curious, is the water in Arma 3 handled by the Nvidia part of the engine?

[Alwarren 2765]

Thank you for the input regarding AI issues, it has been noted, try to get back to the topic now or this thread is going to be closed :icon_evil:

Sorry, Pettka, didn't see your message in time or I wouldn't have followed up on it.

Now that we got your attention, can you say if there are any plans on addressing the inland water issues? For Altis this might not be a big deal, it certainly is for a lot of others though, and it essentially makes a lot of user created maps ported over from Arma 2 obsolete.