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fabio_chavez

Bohemia Interactive please comment on whats hindering you to introduce Ponds to Arma3

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I completely agree, however, you also have to remember that people expected most of this to already be there. Not to mention, Arma 2 vets (and arma 1 vets) will tell you that Arma 2's initial release was relatively disastrous compared to arma 3's. Even without the campaign, and subsequent content releases, Arma 3's launch was super smooth and really awesome. What did people complain about then? Content and Features. Now that they're adding Content and Features they're getting complaints about playability. BI can't win. Bugs will always be there. It's a sandbox game. If you expect a sandbox game to not have bugs...let me know when you find one.

I'm here from day one. I've worked in IT for the past 15 years. I wouldn's expect this kind of games to be bug free. What I would expect is more resources dedicated to fix all that's already there, and is broken, and less to add new features that will agravate the problem. So, it's not that new features are not appreciated or desired, it's the bottleneck BI is producing by adding things that are free, but cost them more and more hours to maintain, instead of fixing many big internal problems that really are hindering scripting, mission, and addons development. I supported ZEUS introduction, to give you an example, for they said no resources were taken from other areas for its development, only to discover, that now half their patching goes to ZEUS related features.

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http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15579&nbn=25#bugnotes

It's a known problem since modders first ported A2 maps in A3, which is pretty much soon after the Alpha release, one and a half year ago.

Infinite terrain has been broken for a good year as well now:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=9437&nbn=8#bugnotes

Very disappointing, considering the community would gain a lot of content from previous game, with almost no effort.

Go figure. :confused:

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[...] I supported ZEUS introduction, to give you an example, for they said no resources were taken from other areas for its development, only to discover, that now half their patching goes to ZEUS related features.

That's a good description of how BI works nowadays, sadly.

As long as DLCs will keep coming, we will most likely see zero progress on the biggest issues...

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http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15579&nbn=25#bugnotes

It's a known problem since modders first ported A2 maps in A3, which is pretty much soon after the Alpha release, one and a half year ago.

Infinite terrain has been broken for a good year as well now:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=9437&nbn=8#bugnotes

Very disappointing, considering the community would gain a lot of content from previous game, with almost no effort.

Go figure. :confused:

So that means two things. Either BIS plans to fix these later on, or not a all. See off as Altis and Stratis, are islands, they wouldn't need infinite terrain at that point. But if try were to be actual land locations, then they'd probably want to fix that. Ponds, I can say that's probably more important than optimization at this point.

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I'm here from day one. I've worked in IT for the past 15 years. I wouldn's expect this kind of games to be bug free. What I would expect is more resources dedicated to fix all that's already there, and is broken, and less to add new features that will agravate the problem. So, it's not that new features are not appreciated or desired, it's the bottleneck BI is producing by adding things that are free, but cost them more and more hours to maintain, instead of fixing many big internal problems that really are hindering scripting, mission, and addons development. I supported ZEUS introduction, to give you an example, for they said no resources were taken from other areas for its development, only to discover, that now half their patching goes to ZEUS related features.

Great post.

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Well I'll add another then. Keep this snowball rolling.

to leave the game as is without ponds and the ability for inland water ruining all . After adding more boats, subs and diving seems totally ridiculous. Really backwards.

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Maybe they consider that Altis and Stratis as terrains in Arma 3 do not have ponds and running streams so it's not high on their priority list if on it at all, and although ported maps do have them they are not considered part of the Arma 3 package and are simply 'mods'? Just saying, i use them myself but personally not bothered but get where everyones coming from, would be nice if they could be included.

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It's not about that but more about compatibility with already existing terrains.

In A2 you could have ponds, in A3 you can't, and all previous terrains result broken because of this.

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Even the "Arma3 maps don't have ponds" argument sounds fishy to me : clearly, some places on Altis were supposed to have water (that dam...).

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I don't know, are there clear areas that are ponds and rivers minus water? I think ponds and rivers were obviously not considered/supported for this title for what ever reason, so maybe it's simply not in their plan to include them, period? It's great we are able to use all previous terrains from previous releases but support for water in these terrains was Maybe not part of the game plan for A3, I'm just speculating like everyone else, who knows maybe there's something up their sleeve with the new terrain in the DLC!

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Just because Altis/Stratis do no have ponds/streams is no excuse. This is a moddin community, and some people's maps and possibly even reputations count on that ability to have working features of environment. The last update they made to environment was the new rain. Time for another enviorental upgrade, ESPECIALLY, because this engine is the RV4, and it is well capable of supporting such a feature. And besides, they may find used for it themselves in the future to use ponds/streams.

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Maybe they consider that Altis and Stratis as terrains in Arma 3 do not have ponds and running streams so it's not high on their priority list if on it at all, and although ported maps do have them they are not considered part of the Arma 3 package and are simply 'mods'? Just saying, i use them myself but personally not bothered but get where everyones coming from, would be nice if they could be included.

What Chairborne said, plus as Varanon pointed out earlier in this thread, the "real" Altis has ponds, and a larger lake, but the in-game variants have. I do not think that is a deliberate choice but rather a necessity since, somewhere along the way, they broke the ponds.

And I cannot stress enough that "simply mods" would be a very degrading way for BIS to look at one of the most important factors for the Arma series long time appeal. No, this wasn't a choice, it is simply a f-up, something that broke when changing render models/API's and necessitated removing (or not adding) any inland water from/to Altis.

And, at a more general level, I wish people would stop trying to make up explanations or excuses for BIS. No one knows for sure but BIS themselves, and there is nothing wrong with us asking for the why's and if's, but what apologists do is speculative at best. It gives convenient excuse for BIS not to reply to this, which is a real shame since it demonstrates how indifferent they are towards this kind of questions. As I said before, if we knew what the issue was we might find a way to work around it, but this complete silence isn't helping anyone, and making up excuses or trying to come up with explanations as to why something is or is not the case is pure speculation and doesn't help either. The only thing that helps is BIS either fixing the bug, or exposing enough information so that at least a workaround, even if it is not 100% compatible, is possible; maybe afterwards we will start seeing actual ports of Arma 2 islands. Or water in that reservoir on Altis.

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I think we can see what's broken already with the waterline. It's obviously a visual thing only because you can only see the waterline when you're looking towards where the water is. It seems the problem has to do with containing it inside the terrain.

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It is too bad, probably however just too much on the plate for the devs when building ArmA 3. I am sure they have inland water in some in-house builds, which are not stable enough or do not fit some criteria for public release. Maybe inland water is reserved for VBS 3? :)

I remember when they made bridges un-destroyable ... I'm sure there are similar considerations for in-land water, such as a conflict between ATL and ASL and interfering with AI pathing. Hard to say, only speculation.

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I wish people would stop trying to make up explanations or excuses for BIS. No one knows for sure but BIS themselves, and there is nothing wrong with us asking for the why's and if's, but what apologists do is speculative at best.
only speculation.

like we hadnt have enough time for speculations in the past 1,5 years ;)

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Can I suggest we need a clever forum signature we could all start displaying (sorry I don't have the time to make anything decent).

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Can I suggest we need a clever forum signature we could all start displaying (sorry I don't have the time to make anything decent).

I want to make a mod in which my friends can be pond scum in game. Bis give us working ponds. Or my friends will be just regular scum.

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I wish people would stop trying to make up explanations or excuses for BIS. No one knows for sure but BIS themselves, and there is nothing wrong with us asking for the why's and if's, but what apologists do is speculative at best.

just thinking it it all through without going all drama queen, the real life Altis probably has citizens also, maybe we need to 'demand answers' for that absence also.. but tbh i no longer care whats a priority in this title.

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just thinking it it all through without going all drama queen, the real life Altis probably has citizens also, maybe we need to 'demand answers' for that absence also.. but tbh i no longer care whats a priority in this title.

i wonder if you even cared to read the thread because its not merely about missing features and you are moveing the goalpost of the argumentation here (wich has allready been tried to be moved a couple of times now). :}

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just thinking it it all through without going all drama queen,

You are not "thinking it all through", you are doing the same thing that every apologist on this forum does. You make stuff up. All of what you said is pure speculation, and very little thinking.

the real life Altis probably has citizens also, maybe we need to 'demand answers' for that absence also.. but tbh i no longer care whats a priority in this title.

There is no problem with porting the civilians from Arma 2 over to Arma 3, or making my own, so I wonder whether you actually realize what is being talked about. This isn't about demanding to get something. This is, in fact, not demanding at all. It's asking. We ask the question why it is impossible to port the terrains from Arma 2 over without loosing an integral part of them. Nobody here was asking for more content, that was simply your way to try and discredit the question being asked.

So you do no longer care, well I do, and if you don't have anything to add to this thread except for unfounded speculation about the whys (which are completely irrelevant for the discussion), it might be a good idea to simply ignore this thread.

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Ok you obviously must be right, Altis and Stratis were supposed to have ponds and somehow they fucked up and that needs to be addressed!, Lead the charge, and yes your right I don't really care anymore but I read the forums and Some things still interest me, when i do play A3 I use these maps like everyone else here, I have posts from way back querying the water line bug associated with said maps, but now I'm over it, my current post was merely a comment on why it may be perceived to be ignored, not to apologize for no one.

I ignore what I choose to ignore.

i wonder if you even cared to read the thread because its not merely about missing features and you are moveing the goalpost of the argumentation here (wich has allready been tried to be moved a couple of times now). :}

Just to be clear, I have read the thread and fully agree that it would be awesome if ponds and rivers could be included back into Arma 3, I was querying wether maybe it's intended as choice as opposed to some major blunder and did not mean to move goalposts so to speak, if it was intended not to include inland water (hopefully it isn't) then maybe they have no intention to address it (at this time?), i really don't mean to upset anyone :)

Edited by Katipo66

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