GetTactical - a tactical-RTS interface

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GetTactical - a tactical-RTS interface v1.1



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[zapat 55]

dont know how this will affect other colorCorrections the mission Designer might want to use

This is a valid point, and will be addressed. I will use stacked colorCorrections, or if it fails, I will include an option to turn it off.

The problem is, of course, that in Zeus or other COIN cameras, the RMB is used to help rotate the camera.

I've tried Zeus and I hated this. I've been playing RTS games for two decades now and many of the more advanced ones needs to go with what I use. You need 2 buttons for unit control if you want to keep that clean. And I do. Otherwise there may be a too big price to pay.

So the camera needs to go somewhere else. But if you have a better idea I am open to it: edge of a screen would be an addition to the existing system, right.

I also found that turning continuous movement off

Yes, I admit continuous movement is a bit strange at first, but if you get used to it, you will not want the other back. It is a lot more efficient: you just need to move your mouse a bit to turn, you don't need a 2 meter wide mousepad to turn around.

is there a way to PRECISELY get soldiers to stack up exactly where you want them (to the centimetre!)

Well, this is ARMA. I put them into place in building positions, because it is a must there, but its ugly. So I am afraid this is where the road ends currently in this field.

move the cursor close to another it wants me to join the groups (which shouldn't be the typical order).

I can narrow it down, or use SHIFT as a condition, however this is a feature I use most. It is to replace the ability to select more units at once. My scripts faild with that badly.

So what do you think the tipycal order should be?

Perhaps a way to force join group on key press or use an icon ?

Umm, I can't really follow this one...

And thanks for the Armaholic mirror!

[kremator 1064]

Thanks for such a detailed response zapat! You are the boss and of course we will do what you think best. I think I just need to get used to the camera much more. It is a shame that you can't more accurately place those troops. Would it be possible to have Q and Z as camera up and down?

[zapat 55]

of course we will do what you think best.

Well, thing is that I have no idea what the best is. I don't even know what "good" is. This is the sickness of coders: I create something first, and try it and if I like it I keep it. Trouble is that I keep on coding something else and get used to the previous systems. After 1500 hours you won't be able to tell what does it FEEL to use your system it is so natural.

So I need FEEDBACK. We need to talk aboput these. I need bugreports, because users can click the way I never will.

If more than one person says the same, I handle it as an issue.

[spookygnu 563]

I like the look of this. Nice job dude!

[zapat 55]

Kremator: why do you need them that accurate (I am just curious: what do people use this tool for)? You can always switch to 1st person and stand wherever. Recently the positions, poses, watchdir are saved when enabling the top-down view again.

[kremator 1064]

Just thinking about SWAT type missions ... stacking before room entry ala Rainbow Six kinda stuff. Would open up a whole new game type :) Could even have a new icon for breaching doors!

[zapat 55]

First I'll make what we have work. Then I'll add some more exotic features. I won't stop coding after October, I assure you. :)

The breach door / clear houses thingy is already on my list.

However you must note that these things will go into the mission, I think. The addon should stay what it is: an interface.

As for the mission, my plan is longer than you would ever think. :) You may now think that the addon is cooler, but I want to change your view on this on the long run.

If I won't get bored of this (and chances are little) then Black Rain will be something really cool in a year or so. (Think of a game with multiple layers of control: where I'd add a HC like team control over the team level tactical control: so that you'll have a real RTS game with a real tactical game with a real FPS game: its like all my favourite games in one and you select the layer you want to play. It is possible to do, I'd just need 50 hour days.)

[kremator 1064]

Totally agree that your MANW entry is more important mate !

[zapat 55]

Its not about MANW. It is (or looking at the games nowadays I'd say "should be" instead of "is") the way developing looks like. I want a stable foundation with enough features to get people interested, polish that, and when you are so used to it, then add features to keep the users interested. Why do I want to keep people interested? I don't have the faintest idea. :)

[froggyluv 2130]

Looking forward to that mission mate -AI features baked into a mission designed for it are really where it's at. I think the guy asking for 'centimeter control' is maybe alluding to the possibility to actually access node control for the AI -if not, well Ill ask for him :o

What I mean is the possibility to force the AI to use those corner of the building positions that enable the AI to lean in/out -that would be huge for tac breach etc... While we're on that subject, for some insane reason that ability was never introduced to indoors which is a shame.

[kecharles28 197]

New mod v1.1 available at withSIX. Download now by clicking:

[sttosin 67]

Zapat, I have some ideas after October.

A suppression system for GetTactical. Select a unit or two and an icon for suppression and move camera to area to suppress. _unit then shoots at area until...(see depending on how complex you make it)

[zapat 55]

It would be a good idea if the receiving part was made (that is the units being supressed reacted accordingly). I don't want to go into modding AI with this.

[sttosin 67]

It would be a good idea if the receiving part was made (that is the units being supressed reacted accordingly). I don't want to go into modding AI with this.

Don't worry about that piece. Lots of good AI mods already take care of that. bCombat, TPW EBS, Tpwcas all do a fine job there.

This scope is simply still a focus on AI control not reactions.

[wiggum2 31]

@ zapat

Is there currently a way to block player access to the GetTactical View ?

It would be cool to block that view during a scripted helicopter insertion for example...at least for the mission designer.

I always have to think about Hidden & Dangerous...the GetTactical View + Inv44 Mod = total epic SP gameplay ! :D

[zapat 55]

GetTactical compatible mission, huh? :)

Currently you can't do this easily with the Addon, but I will put in a line in the next version so that you can turn it off. Good idea, thanks.

(you can make the unit non-leader, which disables the interface, or BR_TACV_key stores the dik code of the gettactical key, so if you set it to -1, it won't fire, and you can set it back to its original value later.)

[haleks 8206]

Hidden & Dangerous

Ho the memories!

[wiggum2 31]

There is a real problem with the AI attacking targets that are far away (thats a arma ai problem).

Although a human player see them the AI refuses the engage them, could you maybe add a feature to reveal specific enemys to all AI units so you can order them to attack ?

Otherwise they only attack if the enemy already shoots at them...

[stlassen 16]

Hi,

Great mod. :) And I'm getting used to the camera handling. ;)

A few things I've noticed:

• When I enter into tactical View, it's doesn't always work, unless I'm mistaken with how it works.
  I press the TacV key quickly to get into planing mode. It works sometimes, usually for a while after a mission is loaded. After sometime, many times only after 5-10 minutes, hitting that same key only place me in TacV quick planing, but as soon as I release it, even only if I'm tapping the key, brings me out of TacV mode. I have to hold it down and then press the planing button with the mouse.
  
• Sometimes, when the above happens, when I do get into the planing mode, the camera is placed right inside the unit I'm controlling. It's not in the normal planing camera position. I then have to switch unit and back again, sometimes even go out of planing mode and back in again.
  
• There also seem to be a conflict between the vanilla unit command style and the TacV style in that they seem to conflict. Sometimes it is just a lot easier to use the vanilla way, and sometimes the better overview of the TacV is better.
  If I've used the TacV and want to get full control vanilla style, I have to make sure all commands in the TacV are cancelled first.
  I don't know if this is solvable somehow or if you have other planes for the TacV, but there are commands like formation, that are missing. ;)
  

Just some thoughts, issues and ideas perhaps. ;)

Cheers :)

[spookygnu 563]

This reminds me of full spectrum warrior back in the day. Loved that game! I've only had a quick look at it so far, but does this have the function to allow units to recognise cover? If it does thats great! If not is it possible to make the cursor contact sensitive and if it is a group you are moving maybe have something that would show how many units you are moving and where they would likely be positioned.

Here's a thought, i read someone said something about stacking up, if implemented, how about setting it to have units in order of command or however it works.

Edited August 30, 2014 by SpookyGnu

[sttosin 67]

This reminds me of full spectrum warrior back in the day. Loved that game! I've only had a quick look at it so far, but does this have the function to allow units to recognise cover? If it does thats great! If not is it possible to make the cursor contact sensitive and if it is a group you are moving maybe have something that would show how many units you are moving and where they would likely be positioned.

Here's a thought, i read someone said something about stacking up, if implemented, how about setting it to have units in order of command or however it works.

+1 on this post after October.

[haleks 8206]

This reminds me of full spectrum warrior back in the day. Loved that game!

I remember when I was playing it on XBox, I had a blast with it.

Funny thing is, I was thinking about that game not so long ago; a few weeks after, Zapat was releasing his mission. ^^

[zapat 55]

There is a real problem with the AI attacking targets that are far away (thats a arma ai problem).

Although a human player see them the AI refuses the engage them, could you maybe add a feature to reveal specific enemys to all AI units so you can order them to attack ?

Otherwise they only attack if the enemy already shoots at them...

Yup, arma ai. Supposedly they should do this if you can green-target them, which means there is a clean los. But I want to dig deeper in this field, because it annoys me too.

There is always 1st peron view though. :)

• I press the TacV key quickly to get into planing mode. It works sometimes, usually for a while after a mission is loaded. After sometime, many times only after 5-10 minutes, hitting that same key only place me in TacV quick planing, but as soon as I release it, even only if I'm tapping the key, brings me out of TacV mode. I have to hold it down and then press the planing button with the mouse.
  

What mission do you use it in? How is the framerate? Is many things going on?

This was something I am afraid from the beginning. In my mission I can hold it under control, but not with other missions. This can happen if script executin is delayed too much.

• Sometimes, when the above happens, when I do get into the planing mode, the camera is placed right inside the unit I'm controlling. It's not in the normal planing camera position. I then have to switch unit and back again, sometimes even go out of planing mode and back in again.
  

I'll look into this, thanks. This shouldn't happen even if the scheduled environment is overloaded. Can the camera moved or is it stuck? Is the unit count okay? (Isn't a new unit added?)

• There also seem to be a conflict between the vanilla unit command style and the TacV style in that they seem to conflict. Sometimes it is just a lot easier to use the vanilla way, and sometimes the better overview of the TacV is better.
  If I've used the TacV and want to get full control vanilla style, I have to make sure all commands in the TacV are cancelled first.
  I don't know if this is solvable somehow or if you have other planes for the TacV, but there are commands like formation, that are missing. ;)
  

Can you give me specific examples? I designed the interface NOT TO conflict. SO this is a bug. If you give an order the vanilla way, the units should be "called off" (this shows in the Gettactical view) and execute vanilla orders, while their gettactical plan is paused.

So yes, it should be solvable for most commands. I tested it for all types of move commands (for follow leader as well) and it worked last time. Which doesn't mean something hasn't got broken since then. :)

Formations are missing yes: it would be too much work for too little gain IMHO. And there is not much space for formations either. But I may be lazy with this: I never use formations. When there is a situation, I micro manage all the units.

I've only had a quick look at it so far, but does this have the function to allow units to recognise cover?

Well there are your eyes to recognise cover, aren't they. :) The scripts recognise close building walls though: and those are covers. Making this available for any object would eat up a lot of resources for a (in my eyes) minor feature. And if I wanted to check if it covers from specific attacking units, that would be even more resource hungry. It doesn't worth it at all.

If not is it possible to make the cursor contact sensitive and if it is a group you are moving maybe have something that would show how many units you are moving and where they would likely be positioned.

Well, not really. The infterface gives the move orders, but Arma engine executes it, so I have no info on this. Making it manually-handled would be next to impossible again for a minor feature.

I do this for Force move (manual move), which is a giga-major need in combat situations, and it is still not nice, butI pay this price for a force move, but not for a minor feature. Give separate WPs for each units, and you'll know where they move. :)

Although a kind of a stacking feature would be good...

Like selectable position patterns for a sub group: line up, or 360 defense, or something like this would make commanding even more comfy. You lazy guys, you! :)

Edited August 30, 2014 by zapat

[sttosin 67]

By lazy you mean efficient :-)

---------- Post added at 21:23 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

If ever consider a userconfig for this mod, can you give the option to start in plan mode or tactical mode? I find myself wanting both options depending on the mission. I know it was discussed earlier on the thread. Something to consider