ACRE2 Public Beta Release

[bullhorn 18]

In the Menu -> Configure -> Controls -> Configure Addons you can change binds.

Most of them are bugged, not allowing to change into a multi-bind with CTRL because it already thinks you're holding control. So if I push Right Ctrl it automatically accepts the bind as Ctrl+RightCtrl. If I try to bind Ctrl+P, it binds the same. Happens with almost all buttons.

When you unbind keys, they show up as red, as if they're conflicting with other unbound keys.

When you try to revert to Default, nothing happens.

When you 'Switch radios', they appear at the bottom-right corner as switched and when you push PTT, you PTT through said radio BUT when you try to open the radio with ctrl+alt+capslock, it only opens your first radio. Is this intentional? How do you access different radios correctly? There is no bind in the settings that explains this.

P.S. Is there a tutorial on how to use multiple radios and/or multiple channels (additional PTT) with ACRE2? I don't find this intuitive enough to figure out by tinkering around.

-EDIT: OK, I think I figured how to use multiple radios and... it's terrible. Correct me if I'm wrong:

Let's assume you have 3 radios. Radio 1 is set to channel 1, radio 2 is set to channel 2 and radio 3 is set to channel 3. For the sake of simplicity, I'll use 'chan1' and that means 'radio 1 channel 1' etc.

Push PTT -> transmit chan1

Push shift+PTT -> transmit chan1

Push PTT -> transmit chan1

Push ctrl+PTT -> transmit chan2

Push PTT -> transmit chan2 (???)

Push alt+PTT -> transmit chan3 ok we understand what's going on here.

The PTT button remembers the last radio/channel you used and until you switch with shift/ctrl/alt, you continue transmitting on that net but your brain and muscle memory don't necessarily remember. This is terrible. To avoid talking on the wrong net, I would constantly be using shift/ctrl/alt+PTT. I'm very pro-ACRE but I have to say nkey has done it far better with TFAR where you can have absolutely separate binds for each radio and don't have to worry about talking on the wrong net as long as you remember the 2-4 binds for each channel and additional channel.

Edited March 11, 2015 by BullHorn

[soldia 1]

Basically we got two systems of radio cycling and PTT here:

First:

Pressing the PTT Key (default: CapsLock) will always transmit the current Radio. This is the same radio you will open by pressing CTRL-ALT-CAPSLOCK (default). If you cycle the radio -> PTT binding changes to that radio.

Second:

The MultiPTT Keys actually change the current radio, yes. But they allow that in a much quicker way than cycling them manually. Via the API you can define the MultiPTT assignment as well, so you got consistency all over your community (and missions).

There is no need to combine both the MultiPTT and PTT/cycle variant but you can, of course.

Regarding TFAR: Sure, with only two types of radio (SR/LR) it is easy to do everything twice. But remember? There are two key combinations for opening those radios. In case you have more than one radio of any type, you need to remember two further key combinations to cycle. If we would go that way, we probably need the whole keyboard in the end (5 radios by now, count rising).

Anyways, due to the higher flexibility of our radio system (nearly unlimited combinations of radios, not every soldier may have a 343), the PTT system needs flexibility as well. But sure, we can discuss that internally if we can separate those two methods more clearly.

--------------------

And there won't be anything like "additional" channel in ACRE until we implement a radio that is actually capable of that. Or perhaps something like the AN/VRC-111, which will need two radios of course.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Soldia

[bullhorn 18]

Regarding TFAR: Sure, with only two types of radio (SR/LR) it is easy to do everything twice.But remember? There are two key combinations for opening those radios. In case you have more than one radio of any type, you need to remember two further key combinations to cycle.

But at least there's a clear way to open the radio you mean to open. TFAR's flexibility ensures I never really need to carry more than 2 radios (4 channels constantly available, and instant channel switching with the numpad)

Anyways, due to the higher flexibility of our radio system (nearly unlimited combinations of radios, not every soldier may have a 343), the PTT system needs flexibility as well. But sure, we can discuss that internally if we can separate those two methods more clearly.

I understand this and would hope there was also the ability to bind separate keys, like TFAR does. Many users would only use 1 radios, some would use 2, even less would use 3 and almost nobody will use 4. You don't really need 10 PTT binds so you're worried about something that isn't a real problem.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, I don't know how to open the radio at all? The Ctrl+Alt+Capslock bind opens the 'first' radio. I don't even know how you define which radio is 'first'. Ctrl+PTT sends transmission via Radio 2 but how did I assign it as 2? Can I assign it to 3 if I wish? It's very confusing and not user friendly, in my short testing experience.

Thanks for replying, by the way.

[jaynus 10]

Hmmm, 2 AGM boxes, 2 physical R3F boxes, 2 VAS, and 3 RHS Virtual.

But at least there's a clear way to open the radio you mean to open. TFAR's flexibility ensures I never really need to carry more than 2 radios (4 channels constantly available, and instant channel switching with the numpad)

I understand this and would hope there was also the ability to bind separate keys, like TFAR does. Many users would only use 1 radios, some would use 2, even less would use 3 and almost nobody will use 4. You don't really need 10 PTT binds so you're worried about something that isn't a real problem.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, I don't know how to open the radio at all? The Ctrl+Alt+Capslock bind opens the 'first' radio. I don't even know how you define which radio is 'first'. Ctrl+PTT sends transmission via Radio 2 but how did I assign it as 2? Can I assign it to 3 if I wish? It's very confusing and not user friendly, in my short testing experience.

Thanks for replying, by the way.

I'm not sure what your asking for, at this point. As Soldia said, there are two things here: You can either swap between radios and use PTT, or you use Multi-PTT which is ordered by the order you received the radios. We have plans to make this assignable via a UI shortly, but it is currently assignable via API. To expand on your misunderstanding: The "current" radio is what radio you have selected via cycling the radios; alt+shift+capslock changes the "current radio selection". It has been this way since ACRE1 (albiet different hotkeys) and we have found it to be the most flexible method for realistic radios.

In regards to your statements about bind seperate keys to radios, it really just isn't possible and I am not sure what your asking for. You mean no matter what servery our on, if you have a 148, you want to bind it to that key? Even if it is completely different comsig for a different server? This seems redundant and kind of pointless.

Lastly, sure, TFAR's method ensures you never need to carry more than 2 radios; thats an artifical gameplay limitation they chose to implement and we did not. We instead chose to implement the realistic limitations you'd find present in real life. In real life, you very rarely will be carrying 2 radios let alone 3 or 4. Additionally, you'll have a PTT toggle on your vest for MAYBE your two radios. Usually more like you have 1 radio you use, every now and then.

I believe you're falling into the trap of assuming ACRE provides just a TS3 extension for voice with some in game integration; which we certainly do not. This is strictly a design choice on our part, that we do not strive to provide a method of allowing people to communicate more structurally through Teamspeak. We provide realistic radio simulations and usage. Using multiple radios is supposed to be difficult; because its difficult in real life.

Hmmm, 2 AGM boxes, 2 physical R3F boxes, 2 VAS, and 3 RHS Virtual.

This may explain your stutters. Thats over 10000 items; how many radios between all of these? Do your results replicate without 10000 items and 9 boxes, can you test that?

[bullhorn 18]

We have plans to make this assignable via a UI shortly, but it is currently assignable via API. To expand on your misunderstanding: The "current" radio is what radio you have selected via cycling the radios; alt+shift+capslock changes the "current radio selection".

OK so my assumption was correct. When you use ctrl+alt+capslock to open a radio, it always only opens the first radio you received, not the radio that's actually active at the time. A little annoying but I'm sure you'll figure it out.

In regards to your statements about bind seperate keys to radios, it really just isn't possible and I am not sure what your asking for. You mean no matter what servery our on, if you have a 148, you want to bind it to that key? Even if it is completely different comsig for a different server? This seems redundant and kind of pointless.

No, that's not what I mean, but the first part of this post is talking about the same thing. I want to be able to open radios with a bind. Currently, I can only open Radio 1 (whatever radio that is) with ctrl+alt+capslock. How can I open radio 2? 3?

Lastly, sure, TFAR's method ensures you never need to carry more than 2 radios; thats an artifical gameplay limitation they chose to implement and we did not. We instead chose to implement the realistic limitations you'd find present in real life. In real life, you very rarely will be carrying 2 radios let alone 3 or 4. Additionally, you'll have a PTT toggle on your vest for MAYBE your two radios. Usually more like you have 1 radio you use, every now and then.

Forgive me but I don't understand this point. I've never had to use more than 3 radio channels ever in the most extreme situations. Usually 2 are enough. As I would be speaking into a different speech system and pushing a different PTT in real life, I expect to be pushing a different button in game too. This ensures I can rely on muscle memory and not start guessing which radio am I transmitting on. TFAR implements an 'artificial limitation' of being able to carry a maximum of 4 radios while in reality nobody really needs that many. If TFAR can handle letting the player the freedom to choose 4 different PTT buttons, why is it such a problem for ACRE?

I believe you're falling into the trap of assuming ACRE provides just a TS3 extension for voice with some in game integration; which we certainly do not. This is strictly a design choice on our part, that we do not strive to provide a method of allowing people to communicate more structurally through Teamspeak. We provide realistic radio simulations and usage. Using multiple radios is supposed to be difficult; because its difficult in real life.

The argument of realism is always interesting. As much as realism can be great, I wouldn't want to sit and hold a town for a month and be on guard duty during the night. It's still a video game and I play it because I want to have fun.

Unfortunately, I'm one of the few supporters of ACRE in my community and I would love it to become our speech and radio mod of choice but there are still too many limitations and issues.

I just spent a couple of hours testing and recording footage of ACRE2 vs. TFAR (direct speech only. In most cases, I find that both radio systems are very good and don't have that much of a difference from a usability point of view). It will take me a few hours to edit but hopefully the video will be done tonight. If not, than tomorrow.

[VKing 12]

OK so my assumption was correct. When you use ctrl+alt+capslock to open a radio, it always only opens the first radio you received, not the radio that's actually active at the time. A little annoying but I'm sure you'll figure it out.

No, Ctrl+Alt+Capslock opens the radio you have currently selected, which is also the radio you're currently transmitting on if you press Capslock.

Shift+Alt+Capslock cycles through radios, then you can transmit on and open the specific selected radio.

[SilentSpike 84]

I'm not an ACRE developer, but I'll try my best to respond to some of your points BullHorn. I think the main source of confusion here is that you're comparing ACRE to TFAR when they're actually not very similar under the surface.

OK so my assumption was correct. When you use ctrl+alt+capslock to open a radio, it always only opens the first radio you received, not the radio that's actually active at the time. A little annoying but I'm sure you'll figure it out.

You're over-complicating this, alt+ctrl+caps opens your current radio (not just the first one), which you select using alt+shift+caps to cycle through them.

Which means you can open radios "2" and "3" by cycling through them and using the same hotkey.

Forgive me but I don't understand this point. I've never had to use more than 3 radio channels ever in the most extreme situations. Usually 2 are enough. As I would be speaking into a different speech system and pushing a different PTT in real life, I expect to be pushing a different button in game too. This ensures I can rely on muscle memory and not start guessing which radio am I transmitting on. TFAR implements an 'artificial limitation' of being able to carry a maximum of 4 radios while in reality nobody really needs that many. If TFAR can handle letting the player the freedom to choose 4 different PTT buttons, why is it such a problem for ACRE?

It's not really possible because of the way ACRE is designed to work. I'll admit I'm a little confused by your interchanging usage of "channels" and "radios", but I believe you're talking about radios.

The argument of realism is always interesting.

It's not so much an argument as it is their design goal, even then there are some aspects of ACRE that stray from reality in favor of the user experience. It's personal choice as to what you're looking for and if your unit isn't looking for anything more than what TFAR offers then there's really no reason to change.

The unit I play with use ACRE for the realism. That's not to say we're a strict realism unit who operate our radios as realistically as possible, it's simply preferable to us because the radios themselves operate and perform in a believable fashion. We're free to use them however we wish within the boundaries of that simulation.

[bullhorn 18]

Thanks for replying. It must be a bug than because when I switch between radios with ctrl+alt+capslock and then open the radio with ctrl+shift+capslock, the display on the radio shows 'channel 1' even though I clearly changed radio2 to channel2 and radio3 to channel3.

I'm still editing my video, this is a metric ton of footage. D:

[jaynus 10]

Thanks for replying. It must be a bug than because when I switch between radios with ctrl+alt+capslock and then open the radio with ctrl+shift+capslock, the display on the radio shows 'channel 1' even though I clearly changed radio2 to channel2 and radio3 to channel3.

I'm still editing my video, this is a metric ton of footage. D:

I can't reproduce this; are you changing them via API, or physically changing them? May be that your changing of the channel via the API is not working correctly (if thats the case). We have had no issues with persistence of radio data for a long time.

---------- Post added at 10:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------

but there are still too many limitations and issues.

I'd love to hear what the other issues and limitations are; over the years we have always been told the key menus are very easy to use; I think the issue may be getting overly confused with the comparison of features. We do implement artificial limitations for realism (opening one radio at a time, radios that dont support dual band dont have dual band, half-duplex, range limitations, terrain, etc) - this is the features I speak to when I say "for realism". This isn't really a design choice to make things intentionally difficult just for the sake of it, these are physical limitations of the radios that we implement.

As far as the statement "multiple hotkeys for multiple radios", sure, you can do that, with the MPTT keys if that is your chosen usage. For a unit setup, you can even use the API to assign these keys if the mission already knows what radios you are going to have. So - we do allow this. Thats what MPTT is. I'm not sure what the limitation/constraint here is. I'm not sure what limitation is being placed that is stopping you from using this.

Shacktac does this, with usage of the API, automatically assigning radios to their appropriate MPPT key index (1-4) and then also channel naming and default radios for each player. For a unit setup, we've found this works out very well. In a dynamic play setup - we are flexible in allowing the MPPT being "in the order you got them", and always provide the cycling (alt+shift+caps) to choose the current radio to use.

Lastly, I'm not trying to come across as harsh so please don't think so if it is - just trying to understand so we can internally discuss this, as its been banged on and discussed for years now and we have thought we found the best solutions to our problems. The behavior itself has been present since ACRE1, and I don't really see WHAT changes your asking for, except "its not tfar', which it is not. Please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding.

So again - please feel free to express your limitations and issues and I encourage you to; as the majority of the time, it is very frustrating hearing that these exist and no one cares to expand on their perception/opinion. We work very hard on this product and we always are open to improvement.

Edited March 11, 2015 by jaynus

[ferdvd 10]

It doesnt help. Im really getting desperate now.

[jaynus 10]

It doesnt help. Im really getting desperate now.

Please email your ts3 crash dumps to my email jaynus at gmail dot com

They will be in your Document folder; Please email the last recent ones (Sorted by date) and I will look at them immediately and see if I can help you out :)

[Aquim 10]

Hey Everyone,

Have been digging around trying to see if a answer had already been posted for this, but found nothing, so sorry if this is a repost. Have found respawn when using ACRE2 works great while on foot, but if a player dies while in a vehicle no respawn occurs. I found a old ACE bug logged that they found was caused by ACRE, but its a few years old.

Has anyone run into this and maybe have a fix? Welcome any help please :)

Respawn settings in use, and am on the Dev branch.

respawn = 5;

respawnDelay = 10;

respawnDialog = 0;

respawnButton = 1;

[bullhorn 18]

jaynus, don't get me wrong. I'm a a huge fan. I loved ACRE and I like ACRE2. The only reason I even bother is because I want to actually use ACRE - but I can't force my community to switch to it without a majority vote and as it is right now, from a functionality/ease-of-use/user-friendliness (Disregarding the bugs in the video you'll see below), it's not there yet. We can't afford a game session fail or be postponed because of speech/radio problems. A hammer is a tool to build as is ACRE (hopefully) a tool to improve cooperative group tactical play. I can't convince anybody in our community how awesomely realistic ACRE is because nobody cares about realism when it isn't very fun or friendly to use.

Anyhow, here's the video I promised. I wanted to edit it better but when I realized it's so long (And I spent hours recording and editing it already. My recording software actually stopped recording when we switched from TFAR to ACRE, never happened to me before. We finished the whole session and I only noticed after the fact... so we had to re-record the entire ACRE section all over again :mad: Poor Ryujin ;) )

I was just trying to reproduce the bug where ctrl+alt+capslock kept opening only the first radio but I couldn't. Anyway, yeah.

Our conclusions based on the video:

1) We don't care about the radio functionality of both mods because they are both amazing.

2) We really like how ACRE handles direct speech and hope that stutter will be fixed.

3) We're afraid of all these weird issues with MCC crashing, people getting stuck unable to move, people's ears exploding due to strange volume clipping, etc.

4) The players who often have to play in leadership roles and have to use 2-3 different radio channels are hesitant about switching to less than optimal core usage functionality (Like the 1 PTT button for all PTT needs I was mentioning before)

Let me know if I'm making sense and this video helps in any way, I'm eager to help in any way.

-EDIT: Here's what Shiny heard. HEADPHONES USERS (all people with ears, actually), BEWARE:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8COml0H7BBjSkNoaWVWSWlCUVk/view

-EDIT2: Regarding binds and PTT, Ryujin's attempt at explaining our problem with the current system:

It would be much simpler if, when I press Caps Lock, I know that is my first radio. When I press CTRL+CAPS that is my second radio, SHIFT+CAPS my third... but then when I press Caps Lock alone that is my first radio back again. Much more intuitive and makes much more sense. That alone would most likely immediately consider us switching to ACRE.

That convinced me, but your counter argument might be this:

The button combinations don't just switch where you will PTT through, it changes your 'active radio' - which affects the result of pushing alt+shift+capslock to open the active radio. If you change the former per our suggestion, you'll have to overhaul the way radios are chosen, activated and opened. And to this I say... Yes. Why not? The current system is not comfortable nor intuitive.

EDIT3: and Ryujin's counter-counter-argument:

All this time I was trying to remember how it was done in A2 ACRE. Back then you had to manually switch between radios if you wanted to talk over different radio. We didn't complain, back then. Only thing that changes is that now they added the option to switch the radio and speak through it with a single key combination. Also, we changed our habits, and that is exactly what is fucking us up.

CAPS - Speak over 343

CTRL+SHIFT+S or A - Switch radio

CAPS - Speak over 148

CTRL+SHIFT+S or A - Switch radio

CAPS - Speak over 343

CAPS - Speak over 343

CTRL+CAPS - Speak over 148

SHIFT+CAPS - Speak over 343

For the same task now you can use 2 key combinations less than before. In ACRE2 you can use the old way from A2 just by ignoring the new key combinations.

This isn't really an argument, just an acceptance that ACRE2 improved over ACRE, but we're so used to how good it feels in TFAR that we might as well keep complaining.

Edited March 12, 2015 by BullHorn

[SilentSpike 84]

I'm failing to understand what's so unintuative, I think it is a million times more intuative to have a single button that performs the same action in all contexts than it is to have multiple buttons that perform the same action for different contexts (and since ACRE essential provides unlimited possible contexts that also seems impossible to implement). For example:

How do you define x radio? What if you pick up someone else's radio? What if you drop a radio? You can't have hardcoded functionality that suits every possible context. Which is why it makes the most sense to have generalized functionality that's flexible.

If you change the former per our suggestion, you'll have to overhaul the way radios are chosen, activated and opened. And to this I say... Yes. Why not? The current system is not comfortable nor intuitive.

Because then they'd be changing the whole purpose of ACRE. As has been said, it is not just a teamspeak filter. I think you summarized the issue here quite nicely:

We don't care about the radio functionality of both mods because they are both amazing.

[soldia 1]

@Bullhorn:

Regarding your PTT complaints, let me try to make it clear why we can't bind a single PTT Key to one radio like TFAR did. To resume, TFAR binds CAPSLOCK to the "Shortrange" Radio and CTRL+CAPSLOCK to the "Longrange" Radio, which is always a Backpack-Radio. I skip the buttons for additional channels because we currently don't have any radio capable of dual-channel operation in our arsenal. So, using TFAR you can be sure if pressing CAPSLOCK, you'll communicate over the "Shortrange" Radio. The skin might be different for each faction, but basically there is only one radio in TFAR. Fair enough.

Now let's switch to ACRE2. You'll see, there are no such categories as "shortrange" or "longrange". We currently got five different radios (PRC-343, PRC-77, PRC-148, PRC-152 and PRC-117F). And it is totally up to the community or mission builder to define which radios they want to use. And due to this flexibility there is no way for us to bind a key combination for every radio (e.g. key-combo 1 -> 343, key-combo 2 -> 148,...). Even if this would work in theory, it will hit its limits if you own more than one of any type.

Therefore we provide TWO different possiblities to handle your radios as I described earlier. And who is stopping you to unbind the normal PTT and radio cycle keys and simply go with the MultiPTT Keys? E.g. you can bind your "ALT Radio 1 Key" to capslock and the other two to whatever you want.

You got your predefined radio loadouts in your community? E.g. everybody gets a 343, commanding elements an additional 148 and radio operators a 117? And you want them always to be on the same PTT Key? No problem, use the acre_api_fnc_setMultiPushToTalkAssignment function from our API and you get what you want.

But perhaps some community don't want to use the 343 at all and instead everybody gets two 148? As I said before, the combinations are almost countless. And that is one of the major concept differences between ACRE and TFAR and the reason why we can't assign a key combo for talking over a 343,148,... and opening a 343,148,... .

---------------------------

Regarding the bugs and problems in your video. The feedback tracker is linked in my signature, please file issues there and we can work on them.

[bullhorn 18]

And who is stopping you to unbind the normal PTT and radio cycle keys and simply go with the MultiPTT Keys? E.g. you can bind your "ALT Radio 1 Key" to capslock and the other two to whatever you want.

Mind blown.

[jaynus 10]

Side note - we have had no new bugs reported due to testing as yet.

[bullhorn 18]

You've got mail. There is stutter when direct-speaking through obstacles like walls, floors, ceiling, rocks, etc. Reported.

-EDIT: Unrelated, but, is it possible to change the weight values of radios? I don't want to have to modify our loadouts because the radios are heavier.

Edited March 13, 2015 by BullHorn

[hg2012trigger 13]

:459: oh Boy :coop: Now it's ridiculous ...

Edited March 13, 2015 by HG2012Trigger

[m1n1d0u 29]

@BullHorn Tbh i like your video but i don't have any of stuttering during direct speak through obstacles ...

[bullhorn 18]

Interesting. Could you try testing in the same building? Both Ryujin and me heard that stuttering while speaking from different floors.

We were using CBA+MCC+ACRE2 only for the test.

[ferdvd 10]

Thanks, can we have a teamviewer session sometime? I think that will be the best way to try to fix it.

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------

Please email your ts3 crash dumps to my email jaynus at gmail dot com

They will be in your Document folder; Please email the last recent ones (Sorted by date) and I will look at them immediately and see if I can help you out :)

Can we have a teamviewer/ts session sometime? That will be the best way to fix it.

[tom.tucka 75]

Hello,

Are there any Vehicle mounted radios yet? or is there a way to use a 117 while in a vehicle but not carrying it?

Also is there anyway to hear multiple channels or nets at once?

Regards

Tom

Edited March 14, 2015 by Tom.Tucka

[VKing 12]

Are there any Vehicle mounted radios yet? or is there a way to use a 117 while in a vehicle but not carrying it?

No to both, but vehicle racks have been confirmed to be implemented soon.

Also is there anyway to hear multiple channels or nrts at once?

Not sure what you mean by nrts.

None of the radios implemented have multiple receivers, but you can listen to as many channels as you have radios.

[tom.tucka 75]

@Vking sorry I meant nets.

Just that my milsim unit has Signallers (Radio Operators) and we are requierd to be on 2 NETS at the same time.