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aluc4rd

Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback

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That joystick input delay looks pretty bad. There's some input delay with my wheel but it's not that bad.

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Devs: PLEASE READ THIS GUY'S LINK!!

THIS is all I have to say about VRS.

Just kidding. :rolleyes:

In other words, big heavy aircraft shouldn't really worry about VRS that much.

A little bird (Provided measurements are accurate) needs to descend at about 1600 FPM to enter VRS; Whereas a Ghost hawk (Assuming the rotor diameter and weight are the same as a normal blackhawk with minimal crew) needs to descend around 2300 FPM. The rate of descent required to enter VRS gets higher as aircraft weight increases and rotor diameter decreases.

I've never chimed in before. I love the effort being made here, but it needs a few changes to make it feasible, or even sort-of realistic.

I LOVE that you've added VRS and added the AFM! Please continue giving it tweaking. Specifically, please increase the decent rate required to enter VRS. 200 feet per minute (EDIT: 2m/s) is absolutely minuscule (EDIT: is still very low). I understand you're not going for real life numbers here, but at least make it around 350 fpm decent. (EDIT: 650-750 fpm) Preferably dependent on the variables described in the above link. Please consider adding an "entering VRS" state. It shouldn't last very long, maybe 1-2 seconds, but if you're almost in VRS, you'll feel the wobble and a change in flight characteristics. This would be useful to identify an immediate danger, as there is no "feel" for the aircraft in a game. Last, PLEASE increase the max descent rate! I can only get 500 fpm descent in forward flight. That's not very fast. (EDIT: This seems to have gone up. Not sure if patched or if it was a controller issue. I'm happy either way)

Currently, you can enter VRS while rapidly reducing forward speed. Come in on very shallow approach, begin aggressive speed reduction (hard back cyclic + full lower collective, raising collective as needed as your speed is reduced), once you're <20mph you immediately enter VRS and crash! Even though you're not actually descending.

I'm assuming you're using the downward direction of the helicopter to obtain "descent"? These numbers don't transfer linearly between breaking and descending. If this is how you're obtaining "descent rate", then: Helicopter in aggressive breaking at 45 deg up attitude moving at 20mph = "descent rate" of 880 fpm. and "forward speed" of 880 fpm (or 10mph).

With these numbers, aggressive maneuvering becomes almost impossible. This is the main reason why I'm requesting the tweak.

Edited by Kydo
realised VSI was m/s, not fpm

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Currently, you can enter VRS while rapidly reducing forward speed. Come in on very shallow approach, begin aggressive speed reduction (hard back cyclic + full lower collective, raising collective as needed as your speed is reduced), once you're <20mph you immediately enter VRS and crash! Even though you're not actually descending.

I'm assuming you're using the downward direction of the helicopter to obtain "descent"?

VRS happens in the axis of the helicopters lift vector, so it's not necessarily straight down into mother earth. :)

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VRS happens in the axis of the helicopters lift vector, so it's not necessarily straight down into mother earth. :)

Yes, I understand that, but if you're traveling at 20mph at 45 deg up attitude the direction your vortex is traveling won't be directly in-line with your lift vector. My point was that the numbers are too linear / static to allow for aggressive maneuvers.

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I LOVE that you've added VRS and added the AFM! Please continue giving it tweaking. Specifically, please increase the decent rate required to enter VRS. 200 feet per minute is absolutely minuscule. I understand you're not going for real life numbers here, but at least make it around 350 fpm decent. Preferably dependent on the variables described in the above link. Please consider adding an "entering VRS" state. It shouldn't last very long, maybe 1-2 seconds, but if you're almost in VRS, you'll feel the wobble and a change in flight characteristics. This would be useful to identify an immediate danger, as there is no "feel" for the aircraft in a game. Last, PLEASE increase the max descent rate! I can only get 500 fpm descent in forward flight. That's not very fast.

You enter VRS at about 5 m/s (Assuming that's accurate and what the gauges indicate) that's about 980 FPM, which is less than half of what it should be for something like the ghost hawk. There is a significant shudder/shake as you enter it as well, if you can't identify the fact that you're going into VRS you deserve what happens to you when you don't perform immediate action to save yourself. Or you could just not put yourself in a position to enter it.

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After testing the new Taru I have to agree that you get into VRS really easy! That being said I'm not a RL pilot but as it is now it's way more dangerous to fly than in DCS maybe to dangerous ;)

Liked the new warning beep (tested in xH-9) when pulling to much torq. It seems to work best when flying an empty MH-9 where you get time to react to it. When flying a fully loaded MH-9 and make a (hardish) 180 turn it warns to late. It may not be 100% realistic but would it be possible to "bind" the short warning beep to the red TRQ warning light in the hud, just a short warning beep everytime the TRQ turns red?

Something like that would make it easier to fly on the edge of the envelope since we misses the sense of "seat of the pants" that you have in RL, as well as a better/clearer view of the TRQ instrument in the cockpit.

/KC

Edited by KeyCat

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You enter VRS at about 5 m/s (Assuming that's accurate and what the gauges indicate) that's about 980 FPM, which is less than half of what it should be for something like the ghost hawk. There is a significant shudder/shake as you enter it as well, if you can't identify the fact that you're going into VRS you deserve what happens to you when you don't perform immediate action to save yourself. Or you could just not put yourself in a position to enter it.

OK, I made a mistake. I heard someone say "VRS @ 200fpm" and didn't look closely at the gauge. I've only ever flown aircraft using fpm gauges, so looking at it I assumed it was fpm x100. The gauge is m/s not fpm. That's my bad, and it brings the numbers slightly closer to reality... However, it's 2 - 2.5 to enter VRS, not 5. I've tested this many times. It's extremely predictable. hover at altitude, increase descent rate to over 2, you will enter VRS at the same spot every time.

2m/s = 392fpm 2.5m/s = 492fpm. Still very low.

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Oddly enough, I've never really noticed the input delay. I'm using CH Products Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals, in case it's of any help. I've been able to sling-load and manually hover, with pretty much the only problems coming from VRS. While it's not an easy feat, it's certainly doable.

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Oddly enough, I've never really noticed the input delay. I'm using CH Products Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals, in case it's of any help. I've been able to sling-load and manually hover, with pretty much the only problems coming from VRS. While it's not an easy feat, it's certainly doable.

I'm not sure if it's really input delay. It could just be acceleration.

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http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?126795-flight-model-editing/page2&p=2054734#post2054734

An old thread for TOH which brought up possible cause and solution to "input lag". Could something similar to "damper" be the issue in Arma 3, a tweak that got forgotten, never added, or maybe obsolete?

I have no idea how relevant that thread is today, but it seemed interesting when I stumbled upon it.

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Not sure about anyone else but i got the bundle and the HELI DLC is fixed! I can now enter them successfully!! Wahoo

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The General Discussion thread's reported similar as well, so however-unannounced it looks like the fix happened. :)

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Hi guys, sorry if this is deemed a cross post but I wanted to reach fixed-wing and rotor-heads with this idea. I just posted in the fixed-wing development thread a post that makes a feature request for Tacview export out of Arma.

Agree that TacView is a great tool and I use it in DCS to learn from my many mistakes. I'm pretty sure that a script could export the required data already but have no idea how to solve the terrain, would love to see a mod for this.

/KC

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I have a bug:

If you get in a working helicopter as a pilot, framerate drops and soon after helicopter explodes. Only in Advanced Flight Model.

To recreate:

Get in as a copilot-> take controls-> turn on engine-> get out-> get in-> take controls-> Explosion

Get in as a pilot-> turn on engine-> Eject (to have a working engine)-> get in-> Explosion (works when eject is enabled by a mod)

Edited by Raven_JJ

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Is there an ETA for when we'll finally be able to land on buildings and rocks and stuff without exploding violently?

I think it's fixed on most Arma 3 content, but I just landed on one of them large construction sites that have been around since Arma 2 and my M-900 exploded violently.

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So, does the real Chinook have it's blades so close to each others planes:

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2014/10/full-17189-89917-2014_10_25_00002.jpg (142 kB)

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2014/10/full-17189-89918-2014_10_25_00001.jpg (165 kB)

---------- Post added at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

Is there an ETA for when we'll finally be able to land on buildings and rocks and stuff without exploding violently?

I think it's fixed on most Arma 3 content, but I just landed on one of them large construction sites that have been around since Arma 2 and my M-900 exploded violently.

The devs said early on that might be a problem for a while. Apparently it would require a "rewiring" of the whole engines collision system. :(

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The chinook's rotor discs actually mesh together.

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Precisely, the combining gearbox keeps the blades in time with eachother.

drive_shaft1.jpg

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Is the Seagull flight model being upgraded too?

Making the Seagulls playable characters could be really ridiculous.

Think about it, won't you...

P.S. Snake bites should also be added.

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Does anyone know if there will be support for the Advance flight model when it comes to VTOL aircraft? More specifically the V22 Osprey, the reason I ask this is because I would like to implement the flight model with the Osprey when it is in Vertical mode.

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So I hope this isnt 100% offtopic given the nature of the thread... but can we hope to see any method of weapon stabilizer for the helicopters ingame? Namely the AH-99, Mi-48 etc's gunner turrets. They sure as hell arent stable at the moment, it seems. Even autohover (of all things) causes a very rapid jerkiness for the gunner of the AH-99 which makes precision shooting impossible.

Or is that out of the project's scope, and something for mods?

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Does anyone know if there will be support for the Advance flight model when it comes to VTOL aircraft? More specifically the V22 Osprey
No. There is no way how to configure changes of rotor axis angle in advanced flight model.

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Im not sure where to post this, so sorry if this is the wrong place!

I got a question regarding the decorative items of the Helicopter DLC:

Will people be able to use these items in a mission without owning the DLC itself?

By using I mean something like spawning them via script (for example [R3F] Logistics Creation Factory) or similar to build a base.

(you are doing great so far :D)

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Im not sure where to post this, so sorry if this is the wrong place!

I got a question regarding the decorative items of the Helicopter DLC:

Will people be able to use these items in a mission without owning the DLC itself?

By using I mean something like spawning them via script (for example [R3F] Logistics Creation Factory) or similar to build a base.

(you are doing great so far :D)

Most definitely, you'll even be able to use the helicopters, the only restriction is the playable content and the ability to climb into helicopters and switch seats mid mission, i.e. yesterday I recorded an insertion via Taru (on devbranch) and I don't own the DLC. The only restriction in that case is DLC pop ups. When using static objects in mission that shouldn't be a problem at all.

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