Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback

[b00ce 160]

More than 90% for at least 5 minutes. The more torque over the threshold the faster it may brake, but not sooner than after 5 minutes.

Anything up to and including 100% should be no issue, that's why it's 100% and not 110%. ;) My helicopter can handle 120% Tq continuously with no ill effects. Bear in mind that the "limitations" listed for any given aircraft are not the if "you do this you will die" numbers; kind of a reverse Factor of Safety.

[gatordev 219]

The first is transmission damage due to torque. There is measured threshold and time. Basically if you fly over limit for 5 minutes, the transmission will brake - in game you will see rotor stopped spinning. I use for all western design helicopters this limit at 90% of their available maximum torque.

Anything up to and including 100% should be no issue, that's why it's 100% and not 110%. ;) My helicopter can handle 120% Tq continuously with no ill effects. Bear in mind that the "limitations" listed for any given aircraft are not the if "you do this you will die" numbers; kind of a reverse Factor of Safety.

That's my question, as well. Is that 90% of total power (in the game engine) or a Tq of 90%? Those are two very different things. Just like b00ce, I can hover at 120% all day long. In certain configurations, I can use up to 135% continually. As I mentioned before, you can go up to 144% for 12 (I think) seconds with no ill effects. I actually do that regularly with students. You can go past that and it requires an inspection, though as long as you stay below 150%, Sikorsky is going to tell you to keep flying.

The point is that the percentage numbers in real life are "fluid" and shouldn't be relied upon for hard coding a failure.

[armored_sheep 56]

Sheep I noticed in the dev changelog the blackfoot has more sideslip at speeds.

Been testing this and so far comparing the orca and the blackfoot. Turning at the same speeds can't see or feel any difference.

Just wondering what exactly was changed. From the vid linked you can see the blackfoot turning sideways at 100 knots (180) kph. Also being able to switch from front to 180. This is what really seprated it from the other attack helis.

Blackfoot got reduced size of tail stabilizer (less force that keeps you flying straight)

---------- Post added at 09:05 ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 ----------

Anything up to and including 100% should be no issue, that's why it's 100% and not 110%. ;) My helicopter can handle 120% Tq continuously with no ill effects. Bear in mind that the "limitations" listed for any given aircraft are not the if "you do this you will die" numbers; kind of a reverse Factor of Safety.

120% in real helicopter for you is because 100% probably means guaranteed "safe" torque (maintenance, safety regulations). In game you cannot exceed 100% of available torque defined in RTD config. Simulation does not allow transmission to produce more, so I assume 90% is fair ;)

[b00ce 160]

Blackfoot got reduced size of tail stabilizer (less force that keeps you flying straight)

---------- Post added at 09:05 ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 ----------

120% in real helicopter for you is because 100% probably means guaranteed "safe" torque (maintenance, safety regulations). In game you cannot exceed 100% of available torque defined in RTD config. Simulation does not allow transmission to produce more, so I assume 90% is fair ;)

In the RTD config, you have Max continuous, take off and emergency torque limits. For the 60M I'm making, I set continuous to the torque 120% would be, takeoff was whatever I did the math for (like 1000 feet MSL @ ~30degC and 16,000 lbs or something) and emergency was 144%. I had to do a lot of math to get the torque numbers, but I got them and they're accurate.

[armored_sheep 56]

Actually the different values in RTD config (continuous/takeoff/emergency) do not matter in Arma. We did not buy the RTD module that simulates those states. We do damage simulation on our own. This is rather simple. We use only emergency as max (this is the 100% I am talking about). Amount of damage per second (stressDamagePerSec) and maxStress threshold is given in config

The damage is than calculated by : stressDamagePerSec * Square(stress / maxStress)

When stress is under the threshold, no damage is taken.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Armored_Sheep

[b00ce 160]

Actually the different values in RTD config (continuous/takeoff/emergency) do not matter in Arma. We did not buy the RTD module that simulates those states. We do damage simulation on our own. This is rather simple. We use only emergency as max (this is the 100% I am talking about). Amount of damage per second (stressDamagePerSec) and maxStress threshold is given in config

The damage is than calculated by : stressDamagePerSec * Square(stress / maxStress)

When stress is under the threshold, no damage is taken.

Interesting, good to know.

[gatordev 219]

Actually the different values in RTD config (continuous/takeoff/emergency) do not matter in Arma. We did not buy the RTD module that simulates those states. We do damage simulation on our own. This is rather simple. We use only emergency as max (this is the 100% I am talking about). Amount of damage per second (stressDamagePerSec) and maxStress threshold is given in config

The damage is than calculated by : stressDamagePerSec * Square(stress / maxStress)

When stress is under the threshold, no damage is taken.

Thank you for the explanation. I'm not sure I completely agree that "emergency" should equal damage, but I understand (I think) the limitations you have to operate under to the coding and the available model. Maybe a delay before the damage equation starts would be a good compromise, but that would also depend on the helicopter, as well, so that may not be worth the effort.

Edited October 2, 2014 by gatordev

[RuecanOnRails 10]

Actually the different values in RTD config (continuous/takeoff/emergency) do not matter in Arma. We did not buy the RTD module that simulates those states. We do damage simulation on our own. This is rather simple. We use only emergency as max (this is the 100% I am talking about). Amount of damage per second (stressDamagePerSec) and maxStress threshold is given in config

The damage is than calculated by : stressDamagePerSec * Square(stress / maxStress)

When stress is under the threshold, no damage is taken.

There really needs to be a higher multiplier to damage per second when excessive stress is continuously applied. For example each consecutive second of applying over 90% torque increases the multiplier by 1.65x damage per second. If the current is 1 damage per second up to 300, applying stress for 5 seconds continuously would result in 1.65^5 = 12.23 damage done, increasing exponentially, 10 consecutive seconds would do 149.56 damage and 12 would cause failure.

This would allow many short high torque maneuvers, but very few long high torque maneuvers.

Another option would be increase multiplier higher but place an upper cap on total damage it can do per second. My opinion would be to define how many excessively high torque maneuvers the helicopter should be able to perform before damage occurs. Then find the average time for how long the torque is above 90% during those maneuvers and calculate the multiplier around that. There's also the option to set different multipliers based on the percentage over 90% torque. 95% torque could do 5x damage per second, and 100% torque 10x damage per second.

This is just a suggestion, and my math could easily be wrong. But something about the current damage model still doesn't feel right. Loading up the editor and flying as recklessly and hard as possible pushing torque to max, destroying the littlebird takes too long. It Feels closer to being on a timer and less like it's influenced by high torque maneuvers.

Side note; it's still impossible to land inside the hangar at the central Altis airstrip. Doing so causes instant damage and death.

[armored_sheep 56]

Actually we have 90% of max available torque as transmission damage threshold and 1/300 damage is applied each second when torque gets over the threshold.

According to described formula it means that every helicopter can brake (damage = 1) after approx 5 minutes of shining "yellow" warning light. It can be 4 minutes in case one will be able to keep 100% torque all the time.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Armored_Sheep

[aggressorblue 2]

So, one thing that keeps being lost here, is how is a pilot supposed to know how much Torque is being applied to the Transmission?

It's not fair to begin 'punishing' the pilot at a yellow torque light, when they have to guess when they will cross from green into yellow.

Only the Little Bird and Mohawk have Torque indications at present.

[gatordev 219]

Messed with the MH-6 some last night (albeit with a keyboard) and noticed the following:

-rotors move the opposite direction of the cyclic when moving the cyclic left and right. I thought that had been fixed, but I may be remembering incorrectly.

-The Nr decay when making manuevers is greatly reduced and I find the MH-6 flyable again. However, the reaction to the movement of the controls is still very incorrect. Again, pulling back on the cyclic in forward flight should not reduce Nr at all.

[saine 19]

Not sure if it fits here.

But I tried it a few times and have really no idea what i'm doing.

How should people like me, who have no idea how to handle this, learn it?

I'm really thinkink about buying ToH or an DCS Module, but that can't be the solution.

[onlybone 11]

Not sure if it fits here.

But I tried it a few times and have really no idea what i'm doing.

How should people like me, who have no idea how to handle this, learn it?

I'm really thinkink about buying ToH or an DCS Module, but that can't be the solution.

The best way I could think of is to practice with somebody who is familiar with it ^^

[cochise 10]

The Nr decay when making manuevers is greatly reduced and I find the MH-6 flyable again. However, the reaction to the movement of the controls is still very incorrect. Again, pulling back on the cyclic in forward flight should not reduce Nr at all.

This is true, seems that the loading of the rotors is working in the opposite direction. When you pull back on the cyclic with forward speed you should be able to "load the rotor disc" and increase the rotor RPM.

[quickvenge 10]

Not sure if it fits here.

But I tried it a few times and have really no idea what i'm doing.

How should people like me, who have no idea how to handle this, learn it?

I'm really thinkink about buying ToH or an DCS Module, but that can't be the solution.

Hopefully they add something like they have in TOH, a set of training exercise that teaches you basic operations of helicopter flight.

This a helpful read, particular chapter 09. I'm not trying be sarcastic here, but the Dev's and their internal testers may want a look see on that chapter as well. Basically describes fundamental control inputs and expected behavior.

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/helicopter_flying_handbook/

[KeyCat 131]

fixed: Animated torque indicator for the xh-9 family of helicopters

/KC

[gatordev 219]

This is true, seems that the loading of the rotors is working in the opposite direction. When you pull back on the cyclic with forward speed you should be able to "load the rotor disc" and increase the rotor RPM.

I know what you mean, but to be completely accurate and avoid any confusion with the Devs... Pulling back on the cyclic (with fixed collective position) with forward speed UNLOADS the disc, which is why Nr increases. It has nothing to do with the engines, it's just all aerodynamically driven.

[cochise 10]

Ah yes! Poor choice of words on my part. I was thinking in an autorotation scenario.

[aggressorblue 2]

Fixed: Helicopter explosion misconfiguration

That sounds like one heck of a bug... :D

[MountainCheetah 10]

Are bird strikes a problem that real heli pilots run into while flying NOE? If so, is this modeled with the Seagulls in game? I would really love to chop up some beach turkeys.

I think it would be pretty funny. I know it was a feature in X-Plane. I jumped out of my seat the first time it happened to me on final.

[miketim 20]

Helicopter explosion misconfiguration

What is this, for the damage or that audio issue?

[pettka 694]

What is this, for the damage or that audio issue?

The paths to sounds contained some typo, it should not affect any gameplay feature :icon_twisted:

[NeZz_DK 1]

Is there a way to bind the "Engine on" menu entry to a joystick/joypad button? I cant find it in the list of bindable commands?

And it really kills the emersion when I have to scroll through the menu to turn on a helicopter.

[bigpickle 0]

Is there a way to bind the "Engine on" menu entry to a joystick/joypad button? I cant find it in the list of bindable commands?

And it really kills the emersion when I have to scroll through the menu to turn on a helicopter.

Dont think there is but you only need to increase power to get it to start up i think.

[the_demongod 31]

Dont think there is but you only need to increase power to get it to start up i think.

Nope, luckily they removed that "feature," you now have to actually press "engine on," there is no magical auto-ignition anymore.

I just wish they'd move this functionality over to the rest of the vehicles too.