JSRS: DragonFyre -- WIP Thread

[laxemann 1673]

Are we still on target for releasing it this year? The anticipation is killing me! :D (can you tell i voted to release it unfinished? haha)

I can't speak for Jarhead, but a bigger issue still is that you still can't add eventhandlers to ammoclasses (Feedbacktracker link), which makes it impossible

to hear spawned explosions. Shabby! :(

[jcae2798 132]

I can't speak for Jarhead, but a bigger issue still is that you still can't add eventhandlers to ammoclasses (Feedbacktracker link), which makes it impossible

to hear spawned explosions. Shabby! :(

Yea man i voted it up. THanks for all the work you've been doing as well :)

[Gutsnav 13]

Since rain sound sounds has been showcased inside cars, does it mean it will occur inside houses too? ;) Jokes aside great job LJ, keep it up.

Not likely. Unless they scripted it in :P

[LordJarhead 1721]

Lex... LJ... you guys are killing me! It all sounds so amazing, there is a lot going on for arma right now!!! I agree if its something that could be done having vehicle sounds properly echo and bounce would be pretty great. I'm assuming since you already have layers of sounds for gun fire and explosions at varying ranges, that vehicles will be the same? Because the looming roar of a tank engine stalking or patrolling your AO and you can't see it would be crazy intense lol

Currently, I'm more concerned about the performance. Even if our current scripts show a really nice performance, also thanks to the new engine features, I think that things like those are kinda possible... Even without scripting. The engine just needs to have a better detection of "Houses", because sometimes you can stand in a village while you still hear the sounds for a Meadow because the game does not detect the Houses around the player. If that would kinda be more "sharp" it would be REALLY easy simply add a class, something like class: UrbanRoar or something. I'm not sure if I could write a class like this just out of my mind right now but it could look like this:

class UrbanRoar
           {
               sound[] = {"DFyre_Tanksounds\noises\Urban", 1.25, 1, 300};
               frequency = "0.95    +    ((rpm/    2000) factor[(200/    2000),(2000/    2000)])*0.75";
               volume = "1*engineOn[b]*houses[/b]*camPos*((rpm/    2000) factor[(200/    2000),(2000/    2000)])";
           };

That would be it. Every time the tank is driving near an Area called "Houses", which SHOULD be any kind of City/Village, this sound will be triggered. Its the same as the Rain works in DFyre btw, not that hard to realize as you can type EVERYTHING in there. Same would work for a forest area. So if the tank is in a forest, it could also have some kinda "ForestRoar" sounds triggered :P EVERYTHING is possible :)

For example: Wet tires. When it rains, the sound of the vehicle tires could change so that it sounds more like driving on wet surfaces ;) Just one of a thousand possibilities here :) Actually I'm really thinking of taking that into DFyre as well, its a nice idea kinda heh. Just not sure if that would be possible for the footsteps of soldiers, but I THINK it is .... kinda.

Are we still on target for releasing it this year? The anticipation is killing me! :D (can you tell i voted to release it unfinished? haha)

Not sure yet, seeing the new possibilities and seeing that ArmA3 is a mood of "changes" these days, I'd really like to see what new ideas and cool features BIS will implement next. Now, I'm eagerly awaiting the new helicopters and see how my sounds fit to those babies. After that, I'm pretty sure BIS is doing SOMETHING to the vehicles (Land) as well. Why would they make helicopters have a plus of 100% new entries but leave the land vehicles totally out of that? So I guess there is something coming to them as well.... I GUESS!

I can't speak for Jarhead, but a bigger issue still is that you still can't add eventhandlers to ammoclasses (Feedbacktracker link), which makes it impossible

to hear spawned explosions. Shabby! :(

;)

Not likely. Unless they scripted it in :P

Not soooo sure about that! I think there IS some kinda way in future. BIS would just need to add an environment class, something like "internal, insideBuilding, Inroom". So that the engine is detecting that the player, or even better, the Camera is inside a building. So we could simply add a class like this:

[b]class RainInsideBuilding[/b]
   {
       sound[] = {"DFyre_Environmensounds\Environment\AmbientSounds\rain_house_INT",1,1};
       soundNight[] = {"DFyre_Environmensounds\Environment\AmbientSounds\rain_house_INT",1,1};
       volume = "rain[b]*InsideBuilding[/b]";
   }; 

While you make the normal rain sounds audible only when NOT being inside a building with this code:

class Rain
   {
       sound[] = {"DFyre_Environmensounds\Environment\AmbientSounds\rain_day",0.5,1};
       soundNight[] = {"DFyre_Environmensounds\Environment\AmbientSounds\rain_night",0.5,1};
       volume = "rain[b]*(1- InsideBuilding)[/b]"
   };

Just as an idea, maybe a BIS Dev is looking over this right now and gets the idea behind that :) If that would be implemented, if could be layered over the filters for sounds. In example:

class WeaponsEffects 
   {
       class Default ;
       class HandGunNormal
       {
           class 1m : Default
           {NORMAL FILTER ENTRY};
           class 100m : Default
           {NORMAL FILTER ENTRY};
           class 200m : Default
           {NORMAL FILTER ENTRY};
           class 500m : Default
           {NORMAL FILTER ENTRY};
       };
       class HandGunBuilding
       {
           class 1m : Default
           {MORE MUFFLED FILTER ENTRY};
           class 100m : Default
           {MORE MUFFLED FILTER ENTRY};
           class 200m : Default
           {MORE MUFFLED FILTER ENTRY};
           class 500m : Default
           {MORE MUFFLED FILTER ENTRY};
       };

So in this case, everytime the camera is inside a building, a different Set of filters gets applied to the weapon or explosion sounds so the overall effects sound more muffled, just when you would be inside a building, the outside sounds arent that clearly then ;)

Same goes for vehicles then. If that code would exist, this "InsideBuilding" we could simply separate the classes of the engines like this:

[b]class Engine[/b]
           {
               sound[] = {"DFyre_Tanksounds\Engines\APC2\[b]engine_ext3[/b]", 1.5, 1, 700};
               frequency = "0.95    +    ((rpm/    2300) factor[(800/    2300),(2300/    2300)])*0.75";
               volume = "1*engineOn*camPos[b]*(1- InsideBuilding[/b])*((rpm/    2300) factor[(600/    2300),(1000/    2300)])";  
           };
[b]class EngineInsideBuilding[/b]
           {
               sound[] = {"DFyre_Tanksounds\Engines\APC2\[b]engine_ext3_build[/b]", 1.5, 1, 700};
               frequency = "0.95    +    ((rpm/    2300) factor[(800/    2300),(2300/    2300)])*0.75";
               volume = "1*engineOn[b]*InsideBuilding[/b]*camPos*((rpm/    2300) factor[(600/    2300),(1000/    2300)])";
           };

Another awesome idea heh. Brainstorming with LJ, thanks for joining this week! Next week: "How to apply a voice muffler filter to annoying people."

Just writing some ideas here, got some spare time on my trip ;) Tell me what you think about that, and maybe it worths making a ticket for that InsideBuilding code? Would be interesting to see what the Dev's think about it. Guess if that means to redo most of the sounds for vehicles they wont be that happy. But just providing the possibility would be enough to at least let modders make those effects, I know DFyre would benefit from that for sure!

Thanks for listening!

LJ

[spanishsurfer 58]

If I was running BIS I would have reached out to you by now and offered you a deal as a contractor for the company LJH. :cool:

[Tyl3r99 41]

If I was running BIS I would have reached out to you by now and offered you a deal as a contractor for the company LJH. :cool:

oh dont get me started on that subject :rolleyes:

[DJankovic 401]

If i was BIS i would hire JL like PSC (Private Sound Contractor) :D Sound devs need you to be complete,and i saw that feedback tracker just got acknowleged hope something will be done with it.

[pvtdancer 5]

LJH Everything on that list sounds amazing... I hope that something can be made of it. IMO I know a little about scripting and it doesn't... sound, like it would be to hard... but then again maybe it is. I hope that BI can take some of your suggestions to heart because having those features would be nothing short of AMAZING those little details like a filter while inside or a wet foot step\tire on the road would just sell thing a little more. That being said everything you're doing with the tools you do have are pretty f*&$!$% legit :D

@LJH let me know if you didn't get my PM I sent to you in Lex yesterday.

Also please vote for the ticket I added "Add environment class insidebuilding" at the recommendation of our fearless leader ;)

A little birdy may have also told me that if the dev team were able to fill this Audio Programmer position then these kind of features could be implemented much faster!

Edited October 24, 2014 by PvtDancer

[deleyt 13]

I'm enjoying all of the video's so far and the new JSRS3 sounds amazing. You're a true wizard with sounds man.

[pils 49]

If i was BIS i would hire JL like PSC (Private Sound Contractor) :D

He may be lacking background education, e.g. for programing a sound engine or whatever (I have no clue about those things), but when it comes down to the sound effects themselves, LJ apparently is a professional. The sounds he is creating are not only just better than the vanilla sound effects. There are worlds laying between them.

The Arma 3 sound Devs may have been under time pressure and LJ may have had more time to care about a particular sound effect - still, for me that can't explain the dramatic difference in quality of the sound effects. The sample videos LJ posted contain some of the best and most realistic sound effects I've ever heard in a video game.

That may sound harsh, but it's not intended to put down any of the sound Devs, it's just my honest opinion: Some of the vanilla sounds are just pitiful. In other words, they sound like shit. I'm playing since the early Beta and back then, I thought these would just be placeholders for the final sound effects to come. Well, I was wrong. From the early Beta to at least half a year after release, there was no progress at all when it came to Arma 3 audio. And some of those pitiful effects are still there and the same since the Beta. Need some examples?

- 35 mm AA cannons

- Zafir

- Blackfoot 20 mm Gatling

- Buzzard 20 mm twin autocannon

There is even one sound effect the audio department took extra care for ... and still. The result was not satisfying, at least not for me. Please recall the sound effect of the Wipeout Gatling and the sound effect of the projectile impacts real quick ... and compare it to:

Somehow I have the feeling, there is nobody in the Arma 3 audio department who really knows how certain effects and things are supposed to sound like.

Sorry for the bitching, but as customer I'm not satisfied with the vanilla audio at all and imho BIS is giving authors like LJ and projects like JSRS or Dragonfyre not enough credit. As customer I would like to have the Dragonfyre sound mod finished and implemented ASAP. I'm sure if there was some kind of contact between BIS and the authors of Dragonfyre, we would be playing Arma 3 with the DF mod a lot earlier. But it's the opposite, they haven't even really cared for that eventhandler thingy, even though it's an urgently needed feature.

Edited October 25, 2014 by pils

[artisanal 22]

You all may be right about BIS sounds, but don't forget this : professionnal sound designers have to work with high quality sound samples, which has a cost in money and time (if you want to make a realistic game, you have to grab some sounds of the real deal, or even record them yourself with your team). Look at battlefield 3 or 4. The sounds used in those games are not only convincing but are actually very high quality samples. In the end, you have to take into account that BIS isn't DICE (EA), that they absolutely don't have the same level of funding, and don't do the same type of games (the list of priorities for a3 is very different than the one for battlefield 4).

Edit : for example, the BI sound devs at work

http://www.armedassault.info/ftp/pics/news/pics1/oprep_sound_roadmap_3.jpg (133 kB)

Edited October 25, 2014 by Artisanal

[LordJarhead 1721]

You all may be right about BIS sounds, but don't forget this : professionnal sound designers have to work with high quality sound samples, which has a cost in money and time (if you want to make a realistic game, you have to grab some sounds of the real deal, or even record them yourself with your team). Look at battlefield 3 or 4. The sounds used in those games are not only convincing but are actually very high quality samples. In the end, you have to take into account that BIS isn't DICE (EA), that they absolutely don't have the same level of funding, and don't do the same type of games (the list of priorities for a3 is very different than the one for battlefield 4).

Edit : for example, the BI sound devs at work

http://www.armedassault.info/ftp/pics/news/pics1/oprep_sound_roadmap_3.jpg (133 kB)

Well, if I may say something as well:

It is not necessary to have those high quality super recorded sounds, field recordings and what not. The point of making a sound for a game, is to provide a sound that FITS the games environment, how the game is meant to be. A Boderlands 2 might not need ultra realistic sounding, a Military Simulator might DO need it. Besides that, a sound serves to transport informations to the player. AND, of course, do sound good, give a good kind of pleasure to the players using it. I know that most are saying they want authentically effects in this simulator, tho its more what they THINK is authentic.

Seeing those videos of DFyre, NONE of these sounds are authentic, AT ALL! Those were no field recordings nor ANY sort of professional libraries I used. Most of this is mixed up recordings of fireworks, some tanks use sounds from my own car, the footsteps are from a cruise through the forests behind our village, weather sound are mostly just 4 basic recording that got mixed multiple times to "pretend" to be something totally different then their original sound files. The rain you've heard in the video are mainly two recordings, one from my backyard on the grass, one of the metal roof of our carport :P

So, to keep it short: its totally not necessary to have the best recording and high expensive libraries to create a sound that people want. DFyre and JSRS are some good examples for that. Besides the giant amount of unpaid hours, no money was ever spend for anything else but my own equipment, PC, microphones and softwares. Thats it.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND now, let me tell you something about Battlefield3 and 4: Its NOT only that they MAY have good recordings, its the way the ENGINE is doing its work! When you fire a gun in Battlefield4, you have 4 sounds getting played the same time. A bass core, a characteristic gun noise, a environment sound and some reflections. The engine mixed those sounds up every single time you shot, this ends up having a randomly created sound effect every time. I mean, if the engine of ArmA3 would be as powerful as their Frostbite Engine, I'm sure we could create a familiar kinda sound feeling to ArmA. And YES, thats a question of money, as this engine is surely really expensive to non-EA companies. But that does not mean necessarily that the costs for SOUNDS are expensive either.

So in this case, I could create the whole authentic kinda sound that this ArmA-Community wants, and did not payed a cent. SURE: If you are a commercial company making money with your product, you obviously cant just take YouTube videos. But the thing is, with sounds: No one will notice anyways if you use it clever enough. No one can point to ANY video on youtube right now, saying that a specific sound has been used for DFyre. They are so much mixed up you can't compare it anymore.

Just my two cents to this topic, which... started WHY again? I wanted to know what you think about my last posted ideas and creations :P But hey, what ever is in your mind guys.

And a last words kinda off topic: THANK YOU for your sympathy to me, my work and this mod. Seeing all those "hire him" posts make me smile :) You guys are awesome! And this mod is for YOU! Well.... when its done tho :P

THANKS!

LJ

Edited October 25, 2014 by LordJarhead

[artisanal 22]

Fair enough LJ! My post was only to point out the fact that, generally speaking, professionnal (hired) sound devs are binded to some constraints, which don't allow them to go for the obvious solution. The situation is only getting worse when they don't have access to the necessary means, like sound libraries etc...

Nonetheless, I highly salute your work which is a great overhaul to the general feel of the game. Many in our community stick with JSRS at the very moment.

Cheers!

[paulone 10]

LordJarhead

Good afternoon,

When do you plan to release the final version? November, December or 2015?!

[Gutsnav 13]

LordJarhead

Good afternoon,

When do you plan to release the final version? November, December or 2015?!

When it's good and ready, just like sautéed onions :P

[nikiforos 450]

When it's good and ready, just like sautéed onions :P

And I suppose you are LJ?

[das attorney 857]

Why would you suppose that?

When it's done is a fair enough answer. Maybe BIS introduce something new, like ammoEH. Then Jarhead might have to revise his date (through no fault of his own). Or maybe he has some RL stuff going on that means he delays his project. Again, it changes the date he wants to release on.

My favourite answer to that question (on the Cliffs of Dover TeamFusion mod) was: "We are releasing on Saturday. We just don't know which Saturday."

[Tyl3r99 41]

LordJarhead

Good afternoon,

When do you plan to release the final version? November, December or 2015?!

now you have asked.... 2016!!

[pvtdancer 5]

For every time you ask a release date, another month gets added! ;) Don't forget to vote on the most important Feedbacks :D

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19734

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21346

[janb1 11]

My favourite answer to that question (on the Cliffs of Dover TeamFusion mod) was: "We are releasing on Saturday. We just don't know which Saturday."

Love that answer. Best answer so far. ;)

[LordJarhead 1721]

So, just to keep this thread kinda alive :P

zTNbzlgj1k8

This video shows the new Urban script in action. Thanks to LAxemann's script we have now randomly generated sounds when you are close to buildings. This effects works for the player, as for the AI. The performance is SUPER quick and brilliant!

Also you hear some more dynamic range updated weapon sounds in this one. Hope you like it :)

Tell me what you think about the new idea/script and share your mind :)

Thanks guys!

LJ

Edited October 29, 2014 by LordJarhead

[laxemann 1673]

Oh lawd, the mix between the actual weapon sounds and the "urban sounds" is spot f*cking ON!

Great job, broski :D

[germ 10]

If you entered this into the contest you would win.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Sick job as always!

[Tonci87 163]

I´ve had a shit day, it´s a lot better now :)

Awesome sounds and effects!

Great Job guys!

Edited October 29, 2014 by Tonci87