JSRS: DragonFyre -- WIP Thread

[CaptainObvious 95]

Good stuff! Those distant explosions, dayuuum!

[mordeaniischaos 3]

Agreed. No, we don't. However, when people pour a ton of themselves into their project and people are endlessly complaining and wanting individual tweaks to suit their personal tastes it becomes a pain in the ass. Sorry if this ruffles feathers, but just the way it goes. When modders say, "this is my project and this is how I wanted it to sound/look/etc", sometimes the community has the habit of neglecting to respect that with the typical "Me! Me! Me! Mine! Mine! Mine!" mental state and try to force their own will and changes upon the modder(s). Hell, there was some nutter who was sending death threats to a modder back in A2. That's how annoying people can be, sometimes heh.

We've gone through such headaches (minus any death threats...yet. There's still hope to reach that level someday!) all the way back with the first JSRS--just as SOS and others gone through for example. It just happens. That's why it's good to nip it in the bud and state to not do it and anyone doing it will be ignored.

So no, we don't need to be coddled. And yes we can hold our own with constructive criticism (keyword is constructive, not "I don't like it, change it for me!" and post a low quality YT video or blurry, pixelated picture, etc). And no, constructive criticism is not the sole core basis at least in regards to people who open wip threads here. People are free to post their work freely to showcase and free to either accept or ignore an individual's criticism...just saying.

Either way, we appreciate feedback and constructive criticism. All I'm saying, as well as Kremator was (I believe) was that there's a line between critique and just being an annoying pain in the ass throughout development where people are never satisfied and want everything custom tailored to their own individual tastes. I've lost count how many times I've had to lecture people in our threads, let alone how many times people have gotten so annoying we actually closed threads so we could continue in peace because it was so draining having to deal with it on a daily basis. Something that many in the community who have yet to step into a modders shoes haven't yet understood or gone through, and just think modders/modding teams tend to be stuck up, or just babies who can't handle the never-ending whining (although those who are whining tend to call it constructive criticism in their own delusion), begging for news, or trying to force the modders to change their vision and desires to meet someone else's. It happens, trust me.

All I'll say in ending is that we continue to enjoy the feedback, but for the community to also keep in mind that this is LJ's vision for Dfyre. And in the end it's his call. Billions of requests to change every sound around the clock like back in JSRS will be more than likely promptly ignored. :p Things are all WIP and some things are just testing the waters with new system features, thus sounds are all subject to change at any given time.

And for those mentioning volume issues--I play ArmA with Dragonfyre with my ArmA sound volume maxed out and my headset volume on high. If I'm going to go deaf in my elder years, then dammit--it's going to be from Dragonfyre and not old age!

The trick with criticism? See it as criticism and nothing else. It's easy to just lump everything as "complaining." But if you just see it as criticism, take what looks useful and ignore everything else it isn't productive. Criticism is always good. Even if it's just whining, it only hurts the end result if you don't know how to react to it. If you disagree with the feedback, put it in your back pocket and move on.

Making criticism and even conversing back and forth about that criticism isn't a lack of understanding on the person's part. And lets be honest, how many people really make addons just for themselves?

At the end of the day, discouraging feedback because of bad apples isn't productive. If it really is useless, you can ignore it. You don't even have to correct it.

Whenever I release stuff to a community, I completely encourage and embrace feedback. I don't always take it and implement it but I never turn it away either.

While I agree with a lot of your points, earlier posts came off as/pretty much were outright opposing feedback. That feedback will always be there so encourage smart ways to react to it instead of complaining about complaining. If you're lecturing anyone, you're not doing it right. It's just a waste of "breath" at best.

If addon creators don't want to be seen as overly sensitive to that stuff they have to learn to take feedback properly, and how to deal with the bad apples. And if you genuinely don't want feedback I believe the mods will lock a thread for you if you want to do that, won't they? It's fair to say that most addon creators aren't educated on community engagement, but there are some pretty basic fundamentals that I think it's fair to expect them to know. Knowing to not engage with useless feedback should be one of those things.

And, making addons more readily tweakable by the community would be another great way to cut down on those "bad apples" who really want to see something particular from an addon (which lets face it, isn't exactly "wrong," only the potentially abusive behavior that stems from that desire should be seen as "wrong." So many authors get tied down being possessive over a non-commercial non-product that supposedly they are just creating for themselves and releasing to the community just because why not if they are already making it for themselves. Create documentation and provide a license to people who want to make changes, so they can customize it to their own desires. You really don't have much to lose besides prestige within the community, and that would only happen if someone surpassed you, and would still occur with credit given where it was due.

Heavy spoiler tagging because of a long post that's mostly off topic. And now, back you your regularly scheduled topic!

LAxemann Was mentioned as being a contributor. Does this mean that the reverb/echo features are coming to JSRS? Or were there some other fancy shmancy features he helped out with? Those JSRS sounds and his reverb/echo effect together would be the stuff of legend!

[salatschleuder 10]

LAxemann Was mentioned as being a contributor. Does this mean that the reverb/echo features are coming to JSRS? Or were there some other fancy shmancy features he helped out with? Those JSRS sounds and his reverb/echo effect together would be the stuff of legend!

Thought the same :D

[R. Brown 10]

One thing that has always made me itch is for a good mini gun sound. Have you re done this or are you planning on changing it?

[draakon 11]

Is it multiplayer compatible?

[R0adki11 3945]

Is it multiplayer compatible?

It will be of course, as was JSRS.

[mordeaniischaos 3]

One thing that has always made me itch is for a good mini gun sound. Have you re done this or are you planning on changing it?

Came here to say exactly this. +1,000,000

I'd love to see what LJH could do for our miniguns :)

[spanishsurfer 58]

Nice job LJH, looking forward to it!

[LordJarhead 1721]

In many APC's the engine and gearbox are basically right next to the ear of the driver. With gearboxes on the front, its the main thing you hear when a vehicle is approaching.The exhaust is also very loud, that is true, but it is very directional (mostly to the back). If you stand in front of the vehicle you hear it way less. The whine of the gearbox is transmitted through the entire vehicle as vibration (vibrations above 80Hz will produce noise). Of course it depends on the vehicle. On MBT's you hear their powerfull engines way more, so the gearwhine becomes less prevalent. Many MBT's have the gearbox right next to the engine, which drowns the sound at low speeds. I took the car for the sample because its usually impossible to get a clear sample for the gear sound on tank recordings. (besides, most tank vids have stupid music on them).

Here is a good example how directional the sound behaves - first you hear the gearbox when its approaching, then cooling unit+ exhaust when you see it from the side/back. When it returns its gearbox+tires again

I'm not sure if such directional sound can be created with the configs.

If you pay attention you can hear it in all military vehicles. Its just one of those sounds you do not notice until someone actually points it out. Normally you just accept it as 'ambient noise' of a vehicle.

HELL :O Please, MORE of these! Those are A-Class! As I dont want to do much more on JSRS I will use that for DragonFyre! Please drop more of those nice vids if you guys have over there in the DF thread! MUCH appreciated! Thanks ;)

LJ

[froggyluv 2130]

Those GL exploding windows...

Pretty sweet

[DaViSFiT 21]

votet!

[RaptorInMotion 10]

ohhh man this is what ive been waiting for :)

[Gudsawn 93]

Sounding absolutely fantastic as usual, very immersive.

I do have one technical-related question: Will DragonFyre be 100% client-side? I remember you/someone in the JSRS thread mentioning that JSRS does affect servers/anyone who is not running JSRS (and it's true - our server logs throw up missing JSRS sounds whenever someone runs it). I'm all for sound mods, but if they're causing errors server-side (even if only small) then I won't be able to allow them on our servers.

[artisanal 22]

It's simple : if you want to use a mod in arma 3, you have to activate it. This means that your client is "modified" a.k.a. "moded". I think there are mainly 3 categories of servers right now. The first type is the server which only allows vanilla clients to connect (no mods at all), the second type would be the one which allows some specific mods (restrictive) and the last type is the server which doesn't care what mods you installed (with all the anomalies occuring in this case, like naked guys running around with phantom guns etc...).

PS : you can see which mods are allowed on a server by checking the bottom-right corner of your screen when browsing.

Edit : I didn't really get your question at first sight, but I think that every mod isn't 100% client-side, for the server has to contain the signed bi keys in every case!

Edited August 9, 2014 by Artisanal

[Gudsawn 93]

It's simple : if you want to use a mod in arma 3, you have to activate it. This means that your client is "modified" a.k.a. "moded". I think there are mainly 3 categories of servers right now. The first type is the server which only allows vanilla clients to connect (no mods at all), the second type would be the one which allows some specific mods (restrictive) and the last type is the server which doesn't care what mods you installed (with all the anomalies occuring in this case, like naked guys running around with phantom guns etc...).

PS : you can see which mods are allowed on a server by checking the bottom-right corner of your screen when browsing.

Edit : I didn't really get your question at first sight, but I think that every mod isn't 100% client-side, for the server has to contain the signed bi keys in every case!

I don't think you've fully understood my question. I'll try and explain.

Some mods are strictly client-side and do not require the server to run them (except bikeys of course). For example, STHUD runs completely client-side and does not interact with the server/require the server to run the mod. On the other hand, mods such as Task Force Radio require the server to run the mod in order for them to work.

Our current public server is quite restrictive with mods as we've found many mods to cause mass RPT (log) spam, causing all sorts of issues (and not just because of the log spam). Therefore, it's important that I know whether DragonFyre will be 100% client-side and does not require the server/other clients to also run the mod without causing any sort of errors or sending data over the network to the server/clients. If it will be completely client-side and does not affect the server/clients in any way at all (unlike JSRS), then I will be happy to allow DragonFyre on our server :)

[artisanal 22]

Okay ! Something I wasn't actually aware of :) Thx for the info

[PTV-Jobo 820]

Sounding absolutely fantastic as usual, very immersive.

I do have one technical-related question: Will DragonFyre be 100% client-side? I remember you/someone in the JSRS thread mentioning that JSRS does affect servers/anyone who is not running JSRS (and it's true - our server logs throw up missing JSRS sounds whenever someone runs it). I'm all for sound mods, but if they're causing errors server-side (even if only small) then I won't be able to allow them on our servers.

I've been using Dragonfyre on the new server some of us over at Casual ArmA Players use (myself, TheD., a few BIS dev's, etc) while others use JSRS and SOS and thus far have no reported .rpt errors or spam from Dragonfyre. I'll have to double check again from the last co-op.

[laxemann 1673]

DF is 100% client side.

[Gudsawn 93]

Brilliant, thanks for your replies Yokhanan and LAxemann. I hope it stays that way ;)

[ACPL Jon 68]

]while others use JSRS and SOS

Wait, SOS? In A3 v1.24? Any idea where can I get the configs that work with 1.24?

(sorry, I know it's not the SOS thread, but I looked over there and seen no solution and until I upgrade my rig, I can forget about JSRS in MP :()

[pils 49]

Holy shit dude, I had no idea you've been working on a new mod!

What you show in these clips sounds absolutely fabulous. But the new explosions and their concept, now this is taking things to a whole new level.

I can't wait to play Arma with your Dragonfyre mod!

Shots to the room shots are simply excellent. Sounds of distant shots too are magnificent. But it seems to me that shots from a machine gun have the too strongly expressed shade of basses and a reverbation. There has to be deafer sound and less reverbation.

I don't know how the Mk200 sounds in real life, but here is a clip of the Zafir (I know, the music is annoying + volume warning):

So imho, the Zafir sounds LJ made are not only sounding fucking awesome (and fitting to a high rate of fire, high powered 7.62mm machine gun, unlike the vanilla sound ..), but also extremely realistic and close to its real life counterpart.

One thing that has always made me itch is for a good mini gun sound. Have you re done this or are you planning on changing it?

I guess the main problem here is that the Arma 3 miniguns have a waay lower rate of fire than their real life counterparts. As gun sounds are played per shot, it is probably pretty difficult to make them sound like the real ones.

The whole bunch of rate of fire issues in Arma 3 are pretty much a shame for a military simulation.

While I'm at it, that would be my wishlist for Dragonfyre ;) (just in case and for info, maybe my wishes are already obsolete):

1. I'm playing some large scale COOP lately which is actually pretty fun. So you got about 50 players spread over a certain pretty large area fighting against lots of AI. If it's an open area, you can usually see friendly squads firing and tracers flying in the distance. (Usually about 1,5 - 2,5 km away. Seems like the limit you can hear small arms fire is about 1 - 1,5 km for JSRS?

Now it would be cool if you could also hear the distant firefights. JSRS is already amazingly increasing the distance you can hear many sounds, but I wish I could hear certain sounds from even further away.

2. I guess it's because the vanilla game has no sound for it at all, but somehow it seems there is no sound feedback if you sit in an armored vehicle and large caliber projectiles are hitting the vehicle. Because so many times I was sitting in a tank, being focused on watching through the gunner sights, when all of the sudden I'm like 'Dafuq is going on, why is the tank damaged? Oh, I'm under fire lol!'.

Afaik there is no sound for 30-40mm AP and tank gun AP shells impacting on armor. If you getting fired at with HE shells or AT missiles, the impacts sound inside the vehicle just the same as outside, just a bit less loud.

So I wish we had nice powerful sounds for 30-40mm AP and tank gun AP impacting armored vehicles, and tweaked sounds for HE shells and missiles hitting the vehicle you sit in.

(Not only for the gameplay reason being able to recognized if you are under fire easier, but also for immersion, as I'm pretty sure 30-40mm armor piercing rounds and even more AT missiles and tank gun armor piercing shells hitting your vehicle will cause frightening and violent sounds inside.)

I'd also love to have tweaked sounds for 30-40mm AP and tank gun AP projectiles hitting either the ground or an object/building nearby. For the 30-40mm AP I don't even know if the vallina game has any effects, but I would assume those projectiles and of course the tank gun AP shells both sound pretty violent if e.g. punching through a massive wall.

(

Bad example, but the best I could find searching real quick. I'm pretty sure they are firing AP/Sabot rounds in this vid.)

3. Please let the A-10 Gatling gun projectiles make this scary 'sparkling' sounds, I think you know what I mean :D

http://youtu.be/uhJ_A-wvNCE?t=3m35s (better quality, volume warning)

Edited August 10, 2014 by pils

[draakon 11]

It will be of course, as was JSRS.

As has been pointed out already by somebody else, the first instances of JSRS for A3 were not. It might seem DragonFyre might be.

[jumpinghubert 48]

I don't know how the Mk200 sounds in real life, but here is a clip of the Zafir (I know, the music is annoying + volume warning):

So imho, the Zafir sounds LJ made are not only sounding fucking awesome (and fitting to a high rate of fire, high powered 7.62mm machine gun, unlike the vanilla sound ..), but also extremely realistic and close to its real life counterpart.

The quality of microphones are very important for real gunsounds. If they´re crap the sound samples are crap too. In the video it seems the microphones are very cheap so you will hear only 50% of the gun...the other 50% you will hear the distortion of the microphone :p

[Predator38 10]

That's great ! I'm so impatient ! :)

[paulone 10]

I don't know how the Mk200 sounds in real life, but here is a clip of the Zafir (I know, the music is annoying + volume warning):

So imho, the Zafir sounds LJ made are not only sounding fucking awesome (and fitting to a high rate of fire, high powered 7.62mm machine gun, unlike the vanilla sound ..), but also extremely realistic and close to its real life counterpart.

There a shooting range with a wall.

From here such strong reverbation. In the field the reberbation will be weaker. For example as here

By the way, a sound at MK200 in version 2.2 are broken. Do some shooting from MK200 from the first and from the third.