How does bis expect us to....

[weedmasta 0]

Dude BIS or CM they are working together in the end.

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (weedmasta @ July 03 2002,12:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dude BIS or CM they are working together in the end.<span id='postcolor'>

You really believe that? Codemaster's bought the rights to Operation Flashpoint, they can do what they like with it, they can make Bis release what they like or not, Bis need permission from CM for any patches that get released, and permission for anything they may or may not wish to include, or not include. CM are going to choose whichever options suits them best financially. How long have you been around the Opf scene? Most of this stuff is common knowledge by now.

If Codemasters go around the net sucking up all the shitty missions they can find, paying the makers 50p and a packet of hula hoops and then throwing the lot on the CD there's nothing Bis can do, even if they know it's an inferior product and feel shame that it's associated to them by means of the Opf brand. Bis had no say or input in Red Hammer, reword that how ever many ways you like and in however many ways you like but the fact still remains.

As for the original netcode....

What factor decides which features can and cannot be released in a game? Release date.

Who decides a release date? Publisher.

Who says whether or not a release date can be put back so that things can be put in to benefit the customer? Publisher.

Who decides what addons get made and given out for free and what addons are sold as an extra? Publisher.

Are you getting it yet?

This is the Bis forums, 95% of your complaint/whine/whatever are publisher issues, I would suggest you contact CM or go to the CM forums if these are your only complaints.

[weedmasta 0]

I bought the game the first time it came out. Yes i haven't been in your so called forum community all that long no but that doesn't mean i don't have common knowledge.

It's still BIS making the game in the end no matter how much control CM has over them. BIS are the coders after all and not CM. And about Red Hammer having nothing to do with BIS, i didn't know about that

[Placebo 29]

You're really determined to ignore everything that people say no matter how correct and valid the point they're making aren't you? That is IMO behaviour indicative of a "troll".

To that end unless you have something further and remotely constructive to add I see no point in this thread remaining open, can you?

[Placebo 29]

I see you edited your post, well you've learned one thing at least in this thread. My post still applies however.

[Placebo 29]

Innerloop made Project IGI, Eidos set a release date, Innerloop asked for 2 weeks to finish MP, Eidos said no, IGI was released, IGI community was dead in 2 months. Be thankful you got MP.

Publishers have ultimate authority in all areas most of the time, especially with small/new developers.

[CPL.Chesh 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (weedmasta @ July 03 2002,10:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I heard somewhere that G4 is just an updated version of the G3 (or atleast the cheaper versions are).<span id='postcolor'>

Please stick to the topic  <span id='postcolor'>

well i think that goes with the topic perfectly i mean he was just telling you wats the pioint in buyin a new graphics card when the older ones the same and will do the same things for flashpoint

[whisperFFW06 0]

I already said it, i agree w/ you in the fact that they should release a patch to update netcode of OFP 1.46 to 1.75 standard.

About OFP not being complete... Sorry but I don't get your point, there.

Everythg listed on the box was in the game. This is complete.

Multi was working. You complain about multiplayer being a mess, having to wait too long for voting, waiting in the lobby, etc....

Ok, you're right, multiplayer does not behave the way YOU want. That doesn't mean it is incomplete, it is just made with a vision of the game in mind, oriented on the cooperation, almost always against AI, because BIS did see THEIR game like that. You don't agree? Hey, they didn't promise you the game you envisionned. They did what they had in mind, and don't get angry for that. That's why I said they target a very narrow market, not so many ppl like playing coop games like OFP was designed for.

About bugs, tell me about 1 company being as present as BIS in their community and releasing patches after patches to get rid of bugs and upgrading their product.

As they NEVER said they won't release a patch to upgrade netcode to 1.75, don't make assumption (based on a so called "evil BIS and CM wanting to make moneymoneymoneymoney without even an eyebrow on their clients", which has been proven false by BIS during all stages of devel and release of OFP).....

Keep cool (sure you are already ) and relax... I'm pretty sure it will arrive.

Whis'

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (whisperFFW06 @ July 03 2002,13:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I already said it, i agree w/ you in the fact that they should release a patch to update netcode of OFP 1.46 to 1.75 standard.

About OFP not being complete... Sorry but I don't get your point, there.

Everythg listed on the box was in the game. This is complete.

Multi was working. You complain about multiplayer being a mess, having to wait too long for voting, waiting in the lobby, etc....

Ok, you're right, multiplayer does not behave the way YOU want. That doesn't mean it is incomplete, it is just made with a vision of the game in mind, oriented on the cooperation, almost always against AI, because BIS did see THEIR game like that. You don't agree? Hey, they didn't promise you the game you envisionned. They did what they had in mind, and don't get angry for that. That's why I said they target a very narrow market, not so many ppl like playing coop games like OFP was designed for.

About bugs, tell me about 1 company being as present as BIS in their community and releasing patches after patches to get rid of bugs and upgrading their product.

As they NEVER said they won't release a patch to upgrade netcode to 1.75, don't make assumption (based on a so called "evil BIS and CM wanting to make moneymoneymoneymoney without even an eyebrow on their clients", which has been proven false by BIS during all stages of devel and release of OFP).....

Keep cool (sure you are already ) and relax... I'm pretty sure it will arrive.

Whis'<span id='postcolor'>

well said.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (weedmasta @ July 03 2002,13:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for multiplayer, you might be one of those people playing SP only and fiddling around mission editor but it doesn't mean everyone else does the same. There are thousands of servers up there and these days one of the main ways to keep an audience focused long on a game is the Multiplayer aspect. There is nothing like playing against real people as i said before. You might be a 56ker who doesn't like MP, that's is not my problem but it's OBVIOUS THAT MP NETCODE IS ESSENTIAL, it's a big important step in a game's life cycle.<span id='postcolor'>

FYI, i have DSL, and do play MP, but due to work and other commitments not as often as everyday. maybe my DSL is the problem. like you said, it may be slow connection despite 128k down and 700kb up....hmm..that explains why I have such a high average ping of 100 when i play online.

MP is a great feature, but with OFP version 1.46, I think it can survive with its current netcode. It's the gameplay that matters. OFP is not trigger-happy, and that pretty much kicked all those pesty kiddies from OFP MP scenery. and unfortunately, those kiddies make up significant portion of FPS market, and OFP has the serious grown-up market.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pls lets not get into that actor crap again it's getting too off topic and you are starting to contradict yourself and making no sense (going from risk to chance and dragging it on).<span id='postcolor'>

show where i'm contradicting. if you can't, don't you think you are making a fool of yourself? "risk" is "chance". definition of "risk" that most ppl are aware of is that of "danger", not "chance".

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But i would like to indicate this: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">MANY of those actors who are earning millions, do not have a proper education and were working in ordinary low paid jobs before they became 'stars'. <span id='postcolor'>

I said many actors, not most, not all but M-A-N-Y <span id='postcolor'>

what do you mean by M-A-N-Y? I can also give you MANY those who have degrees. maybe a FEW will be better for your claim.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">however, they decided to improve it, and put a price tag, and many ppl consider it adequate.

<span id='postcolor'>

Many people may consider it adequate, yes but many others do not (one of them obviously being me).<span id='postcolor'>

here, you are now really getting your head spinning around. you said many ppl like OFPR's price tag, but onthe other hand many other don't. MANY means a lot in numbers, and more than 50%, so from your sentence, more than 50% likes the price tag, thus majority rules.

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

One time PC Gamer did a little thing where it showed how much of the 50 dollars you spend on a game goes to the developers. And where all the other stuff goes. It was really interesting and a only a couple of dollars went to the publisher. In A LOT of case developers make games without making a profit at all, just paying off how much it took to make it.

[weedmasta 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I see you edited your post, well you've learned one thing at least in this thread. My post still applies however.<span id='postcolor'>

I forgot to add it so what?

Please close this thread i have made my point at least in between these useless arguments.

[action man 0]

weedmasta,i've posted once or twice on this forum and it seems to me that if you criticize or complain about the game in any way shape or form certain people don't like it and start to pull the thread to bits with stupid arguments or comments!

[bwenke75 0]

Why would anyone think that they are owed anything from BIS or CM. They made a product, put it on the shelf and people bought it. If you dont like the game or MP code then dont play it. I guess just take it as a lesson learned.

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (action man @ July 03 2002,19:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">weedmasta,i've posted once or twice on this forum and it seems to me that if you criticize or complain about the game in any way shape or form certain people don't like it and start to pull the thread to bits with stupid arguments or comments!<span id='postcolor'>

Action Man the only thing I've seen you repeatedly say is "I have an average computer and Opf:R runs rubbish, seems you need a super computer to play this game" I've seen you say that over and over, have you actually tried tweaking the graphics settings, checking to make sure your computer is as well configured as it can be etc?

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

Placebo seems a little edgy lately.

Be extra nice.

[ixnay 1]

Placebo has to deal with quite a number of people who may or may not know what the hell they are talking about.

I'm actually shocked at how level headed most moderators here are. I've been in plenty of forums where the topic got shut down if it went even a bit off track or got into flame war in the least bit.

Also keep in mind that moderators have probably been here longer than most of us and have seen every flavor, color and style of ice cream in this baskin robbins we call a forum.

Just my two cents.

.:iXnay

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ July 03 2002,13:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Innerloop made Project IGI, Eidos set a release date, Innerloop asked for 2 weeks to finish MP, Eidos said no, IGI was released, IGI community was dead in 2 months. Be thankful you got MP.

Publishers have ultimate authority in all areas most of the time, especially with small/new developers.<span id='postcolor'>

I din't know that...IGI looked great, but I never bohtered getting it because of no MP.

Are Eidos really that stupid or what?

I wonder if that's what happened to GTA3...

[Hidden 0]

I bought IGI upon release. The AI is horrible. Guards respawn behind your back when you just killed them, you can snipe with an AK-47 using binoculars, aiming at max zoom then just pull the trigger and so on. No saving point whatsoever, but IMO the respawning guards was a lot worse.

If you are into James Bond games starring you as the hero and am not bothered about lack of realism in IGI, go ahead and buy it. The MP part will probably make it sell.

I am not falling for the hype this time. No matter it´s got MP. The same terrain engine, almost the same chars, buildings e.t.c. I have not seen one word on realistic weapons, so enjoy playing the next Action Man game. You

I for one will spend the money on Deus Ex 2.

I played IGI a lot, but never got past the last 2 misisons. It was too hard because of the non-existing savepoints and respawning guards. They aim way too good too, anyway. Yes I am trying find a lame excuse for not finishing it, I suck, who cares. IGI stunk anyway.

[WhoCares 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hidden @ July 04 2002,11:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I suck, who cares.<span id='postcolor'>

This would be the last thing for you to do!!!

[scario 0]

But why are people chatting around like this in threads like this all the time, just buy Resistance and play a bit instead!    In fact; if not a great bunch of people buy's OFP:R it isn't a very big chance that Independence Lost ever will be released...  

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ July 04 2002,09:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ July 03 2002,13:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Innerloop made Project IGI, Eidos set a release date, Innerloop asked for 2 weeks to finish MP, Eidos said no, IGI was released, IGI community was dead in 2 months. Be thankful you got MP.

Publishers have ultimate authority in all areas most of the time, especially with small/new developers.<span id='postcolor'>

I din't know that...IGI looked great, but I never bohtered getting it because of no MP.

Are Eidos really that stupid or what?

I wonder if that's what happened to GTA3...<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think that's what happened, not 100% sure of course, I just don't think they thought of a way to get it in and working right without massively delaying the game.

As for IGI and Eidos and all that, it wasn't as much about stupidity on Eidos' part as much as it was to do with the financial difficulties that affected a lot of the larger publishers around 12-18 months ago, Eidos lost a lot of money and had to lay off a shitload of staff, they had to get games on the shelves and quick to bring in some money, which is why they really couldn't give Innerloop the two weeks needed to finalise the MP.

Codemasters also went through similar problems around the same time, although they never overstretched themselves quite to the extent of Eidos. Eidos' biggest problem was that they didn't believe people would stop buying new Tomb Raider games every 3 months, they just didn't see it happening and when it did they were screwed.

The next big fish to fall will hopefully be EA, or at least the EA Sports branch. Unfortunately however people who buy the games are almost as stupid as those who sell them so perhaps my dream won't come true

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

Anyone remember Looking Glass Studios, best and most innovative games ever created but which never sold enough . I seriously hope that EIDOS won't spoil the making of two my most waited games, Thief III and Deus Ex 2.

[ACT SMILEY 0]

Poor old LGS.

I wanted Deep Cover, damnit!

And Thief III and Shock3 and UW3 and TN2!

Norsu, it wasn't just the sales - in fact Thief: TDP sold well - it was the funding cutbacks for Thief III and contract for System Shock 2 (I never worked there, clearly, so I don't know the details) while running 3 projects at a time when the publishers were cutting back... something like that, anyway.

When Eidos were low on cash, they didn't have big-selling brands past Tomb Raider and Championship manager. So theres nothing else to do but get everything sorted out (Thief II, Project IGI, Daikatana, a few others) quick as possible - it makes some short term money. And Daikatana overspending caught up with them - there's no way it'd make up the reported $25m cost.

Resistance is a great thing which is good value for money (couldve done with being Å15, rather than Å20 though) - I think creating a patch with the new netcode for CWC would be good for the community, but we don't know whats going on behind the scenes so how can we say?

/endramble

[Hidden 0]

When I think of it, the thing I liked most with IGI was that I could run to a door, empty a clip through it and hear "ARGGGHHH.." on the other side.. - go in and find a dead enemy. You can shoot through doors and some walls, crates and more. That was a neat part of IGI.

I can´t play anything as I sold my PC, am on a friend´s machine and am counting the days till I get the 3 last parts of my new PC (the P4 2.0NW cpu, Asus P4266E motherboard and Abit Siluro GF4 TI4200 card). I am soo looking forward to play OFP on the new system! 512mb DDR PC2100 RAM is not so bad either, OFP shoud look and run ok (and Resistance of course).