Why couldn't all the modders work together, and make something better than ACE

[miketim 20]

^

I am just happy no one quoted me in this sh*t.

Didn't realize this thread was going to turn into this.

Yeah....

I'm out.

(Unless it merits interest again)

:cool:

[eggbeast 3673]

i reported the guy - it was unnecessary and personal comment. let's leave it at that.

any guy starting such a thread as this should not be provoked by others into justifying himself. especially if a lot of guys come in and have a good dialogue here.

the thread is actually useful and informative.

a few of us stay-at-homes modding A2 are interested eventually to migrate to A3, so it's very timely.

let's keep contributing constructively.

---------- Post added at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------

Don't keys work for you Eggbeast m8 ?

nah cos we run our own mods which have no keys lol

and the sound thing...

[L3TUC3 32]

Mate i believe you received a warning cause you are being a bit out of your place , and i believed you haven't read the topic, this is a place to debate if the community can work better together, if people can get more along, ACE was a mere example, the emphasis on the Thread title is in the "Why couldn't all the modders work " that is why there is a comma separating the two parts of the sentence, the coordination sentence and the direct object , but if you are unfamiliar with the rules of the language or don't like debating and raising social awareness to things and just want to be take a piss here, while everyone else is getting along, be my guess i will be sure to talk with the moderators and see what providence's can be taken .

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 21:09 ----------

And one other thing if any of you guys read my first post, i said only good things about the community mods, just asked why can't everything be used as one, as i think a "Community" is a place of collaboration and caring for each other, if you want to have a stupid ass opinion about me be my guess wont change the way i perceive the world, just will change the way i think about you

You're trying to debate a problem that does not exist. Praising, then turning around and saying "Why don't you do activity X with person Y to make project Z instead?" is pretty patronizing and pretty much negates the praise in the first place. You're directly saying their time and effort are better spent elsewhere on something that is probably not even close to their interest. If they're interested in collaboration, they will. But I hardly think it is for you to decide.

Someone is a little sure of themselves huh? I fail to see this thread as a "whine" thread, unlike the countless others that like to complain about what DEVs should do, or what they haven't done. I will agree that some folks may seem.to feel "entitled", and that's not right. But someone expressing an idea, that could benefit the community in the end, isn't hurting anything. Is collaboration possible, absolutely. Will it ever happen, negative

Starting a thread based on a platitude ("If people only worked together they could make something great!") and then expecting praise, that's just silly. All it gets from me is a:

FPDR

tl;dr

OP knows what he wants from others (collaboration) but apparently not on what (a great mod! Something like ACE_{just an example} but better). His objective is thusly something without purpose currently. Collaboration requires a goal. Collaboration while lacking a goal but having to meet standards is probably gonna end up being pretty crap. Since he doesn't really seem capable or interested in doing anything with that, the thread has become pointless.

[miketim 20]

I retract my previous statement that I think its better to leave this thread, I guess I will watch it.

I only really skimmed earlier and saw some people arguing, but now I realize maybe it has more merit than I thought.

Also, I for one believe that ACE will be made for ArmA 3, but it will be different, I feel like that kind of affects me when thinking about this....

Such are the forums.

[ReVee 10]

I think the original post was innocent enough, but words are easily misconstrued without vocal context. I agree that collaboration would make for even better mods, but it's also quite obvious that everyone has their own vision of what "Arma" is. That perspective gap makes it difficult to successfully collaborate in that case. I've thought about going into modding, but the issue always seems to be where to start. If we had a baseline for what people want, and what we ourselves want, it might make it easier for people to not only get into modding, but even better; enhance the modding quality that we already have.

[eggbeast 3673]

i think a lot of folks don't really get this fact about arma... that it is mainly played by disparate bands enjoying their own version of milsim.

the only way to successfully get onto a server operated by such a clan (like ours) is to come to the website (listed in server name) and look up the server, and find out what mods we use.

they can also check out the rules for playing on the server and say hi and get help with anything they need too.

EVEN on a public focused server we run, it has ACR lite on, and so we get about 1 joiner PER MINUTE who cannot get in. we sometimes have guys clicking join on our server over and over all day long, and they NEVER get in. and we're not running keys or anything. it's BIS failing to include ACR lite in 1.63 for OA that screwed up big time. i gather it's because ACR needs both A2 and OA, and so ACR lite cannot be included with OA patch 1.63. but couldn't it also patch A2?

I wonder why they think they can connect? are they using PWS? no idea. but it's intriguing, cos we get it all day every day and never even one guy gets in. seriously, no mods (except multiplayer compatibility patch) and no-one can connect. it's pretty fundamental hey?

so trying to create anything that will serve all of the micro-communities is never likely to get far.

but saying that, for the folks who enjoy jumping onto different servers based on filtering player number, and maybe an island or missions type they haven't seen before, then PWS and ACE and so on are great inventions. A3 certainly needs help though in terms of all of the content being developed. I shudder to think of the car crashes of mods that's gonna happen there, with every other guy making a mod porting A2 content piecemeal. RHS has it right i think, so maybe everyone should help them. I already offered my help.

Edited July 28, 2014 by eggbeast

[BL1P 35]

There is the other side of the coin as well Egg m8.

We set up our server to allow anyone at first but also to have some mods used if people wanted.

We had a lot of new people join 99% of them either moaned about no 3rd or shift click or some other crutch they need to play or as most did they simply griefed the mission by blowing stuff up at base or shooting other friendly players.

We now run with signatures on and addon dependency added to the running missions.

Now we only get people joining who want to join and they can enjoy the mission without the worry of well... dickheads spoiling it for them, They still don't get 3rd though we have Skyrim or Tomb Raider for that :)

[eggbeast 3673]

yeah, well we've played on two locked servers for the past 12 months, so i can't talk lol but now i want them open i find no-one can connect cos they don't have ACR lite and i get the impression whatever launcher theyre using isn't telling them that (even though its in the title of the server lol)

[Ckrauslo 12]

There are few people that either just want havoc, or really have a bad reading capability

[eggbeast 3673]

yeah don't let the ragers tire you out. i keep reporting them on all our behalf lol. it is shocking how many (and this includes me in the past) people expect other people to meet their standards of internal logic. it's a good thread, stick with it.

[PuFu 4591]

yeah don't let the ragers tire you out. i keep reporting them on all our behalf lol. it is shocking how many (and this includes me in the past) people expect other people to meet their standards of internal logic. it's a good thread, stick with it.

although i agree that (but i still don't agree with the OP), this sort of thread is needed, at least in order to provide reasons from the ones that are actually working together, but in smaller groups why they wouldn't work with just about everyone else, i'll be a bit of topic for you: when you report people, the moderation team will get a look over each report. Since the (same) reported person never received a warning nor an infraction, should be obvious to you by now there is no forum rule broken (there is still some "freedom" of speech left around here, even if you don't agree with it).

[eggbeast 3673]

that's fine man. i just hope by reporting a personal rant that the ranter will maybe check themselves and tone it down, so we don't have to read that sort of thing...

wow, i'm so close to the end of a long pilgrimmage with 3 different mod teams... the burden is lifting... the light is there shining at the end of the tunnel. maybe we will get to play arma for a bit now, before the inevitable decisions about what next to do.

[mistyronin 1181]

I think soon or later a mod will become some kind of standard as ACE was.

Probably RHS as IMO are working on something most of people wants, a high quality realistic and complete ( variety of air, artillery, etc. ) two sides mod. A bit what A3 vanilla was supposed to be.

Then with RHS as base for all servers, some can load few other mods to add some extras. But these are just my 2 cents.

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

That's pretty much my question, i had this thought the other night, "Cunico is doing a hell of a pack pretty nice one, also the SOC mod team is doing, and RHS is doing too, they could work making armed forces redoing the game... RH and Trixie's, and toadie and eric J and a lot others they could take care of armament... Warlord and Booce, sakura_Chan, RichardsD and a lot of others could do vehicles... the GLT team, Glowbal and Goblin and so many others could work in improving the Combat system... Speed of sound mod team, and Lord Jarhead and so many others could do the sounds... working together in a big pack like ACE was... don't know just a dream would be a nice thing to see...

Things like Make ArmA contest have balkanized much of the community content developers. Few feel compelled to share code and mods, as there is--due to contest--a high incentive to 'steal' and pinch stuff among some.

[Ckrauslo 12]

Things like Make ArmA contest have balkanized much of the community content developers. Few feel compelled to share code and mods, as there is--due to contest--a high incentive to 'steal' and pinch stuff among some.

Well there is that as well ... true that

---------- Post added at 05:02 ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 ----------

although i agree that (but i still don't agree with the OP), this sort of thread is needed, at least in order to provide reasons from the ones that are actually working together, but in smaller groups why they wouldn't work with just about everyone else, i'll be a bit of topic for you: when you report people, the moderation team will get a look over each report. Since the (same) reported person never received a warning nor an infraction, should be obvious to you by now there is no forum rule broken (there is still some "freedom" of speech left around here, even if you don't agree with it).

This sort of thread is not just needed for that, but as well the bring integration to both parties...(what is op?)

---------- Post added at 05:10 ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 ----------

Oh and i think a lot of people is thinking i'm saying ACE is shit, no i hold ACE in the highest standard that is why i used it as a comparison in the title, as i could have used a lot of other mods

Edited July 30, 2014 by Ckrauslo

[.kju 3240]

Things like Make ArmA contest have balkanized much of the community content developers. Few feel compelled to share code and mods, as there is--due to contest--a high incentive to 'steal' and pinch stuff among some.

This is obviously nonsense and you have no idea how the state of the modding scene is and what the reasons are.

Read this post and the responses following not about the paid addons topic.

[Ckrauslo 12]

.Kju i know the process i'm doing 8 campaigns at the same time with only one person helping

[L3TUC3 32]

Well there is that as well ... true that

---------- Post added at 05:02 ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 ----------

This sort of thread is not just needed for that, but as well the bring integration to both parties...(what is op?)

---------- Post added at 05:10 ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 ----------

Oh and i think a lot of people is thinking i'm saying ACE is shit, no i hold ACE in the highest standard that is why i used it as a comparison in the title, as i could have used a lot of other mods

No it's obvious you think it's good. Just the notion that mere unfocussed cooperation will somehow create this magic pipedream of yours is very naive.

So now we're getting to yet more bogus claims mod creators are not only lazy but also selfish dicks because nothing magically materialized that's to your interest and standards yet. That they're somehow beholden to the communist adage that forced collectivism is awesome for everyone.

This thread is highly amusing.

[eggbeast 3673]

hey man can you moderate your tone a bit please. i find it quite offensive to have to read your posts in this thread. using bad language, and insulting posters is not my cup of tea, and probably not many others' either. the polite thing to do is ask the guy what his point is, not accuse him or declare him to be something. why would you seek to inject stress into other people's conversations? could you maybe go and join another one?

[maddogx 13]

This thread is highly amusing.

And your posts are anything but. Please either participate in a sensible fashion or not at all.

[connorwarman 60]

Im a little late to a dying party, but I think i'll throw in my two cents anyways.

To answer your question Ckrauslo, yes they could/can. As it has been shown by ACE1, ACE2 and ArmA 3's current 'standard' mod(only my opinion) is AGM(or 'Authentic Game Modification'). However there is plenty of factors that stop them from doing so. Conflicting interests, different timezones, different playstyles, etc..etc.

Im not concerned myself, just looking forward to what comes in the future. Im sure its only a matter of time until we get the wonderful mods we have all be waiting for.

[toadie2k 799]

Dunno with the things that already exist wouldn't be too hard to dunno, make a bigger thing, like dunno, already great things that came out and dunno, hm... could be used in a bigger pack with a more realistic aim...dunno i think is fairly simple...and giving a bit of correction it's: else's, everyone's, organize and galvanize ....

Could, but one person's idea of projects goals in the name of realism may vary wildly with another, and the end user application of even just vanilla assets and mechanics . Speaking from my own personal point of view, I've never played in anything bigger than a 12-16 player Arma2 game, largely doing foot soldiering in relatively casual circumstances, so for my experience, there's only a limited emount of ACE features that I actively use, and everything else tends to be hinderance or bloat to my expereince or general game cohesion. To contrast, there's groups that run 50+ player sessions where they can afford to, and want to, familiarise with , for example ACE's Artillery system, because there's enough people who are not "on the front" to warrant the additional complexity to make it interesting. And again, there's people who do nothing but fly fixed wing aircraft, so they wouldn't get any of the benefits of sat Weapon Resting.

My point is that no two people look at Arma the same way, and trying to make something like ACE is going to get the same diversity of view, so the mod's going to have to be entirely monolithic in scope,which is NOT simple, and would (and does) require the kind of organisation that would push the workload from hobby to second-job. That or rely solely on contributions alone to make it, which is no guarentee to quality and cohesion.

you NEED a stable base of playable modern content, and it doesnt look likely BIS are gonna make it. and everyone porting a tank or a jet or some units or weapons is gonna send the gaming experience (for anyone who cares about balance across weapons for example) to hell in a handbasket. so soemthing needs to be done! good thread.

To an extent I agree, but only in so far as that A3 needs more content. Personally, I don't feel BIS are held to an obligation of trying to retroactively support "modern" era milsimming in what is contextually postmodern. They DO need to to work towards more support of that core setting though, the factions as they stand now are functionally basic and could do with some additional variety in general. This all could change going ahead though, so time will tell.

i agree with kiory: i do things for myself, for my fun. this is not a second job. when it ends that way, i lost the fun in it and interest there. i do 3d stuff (not limited to content) for living though, so there are times when i really am not in the mood for more "personal pet projects" when i am home. it is easier when your mod group understands it (my case), or when you are alone. Also, i really don't like to be given tasks, i do whatever wanna do if i wanna do it, even if there are 3 more of the same type out there (in practice i'll search before starting work on something anyways, but, especially if it is not really high quality, i'll just redo it properly - also i believe that proper work is one that is done from ground up vs ports and alike, since you can control the entire thing)

i was part of ace since its beginnings with a1, and left after a2 version was publicly released. a lot of content was assimilated from other modding groups in that time, that in the end sort of lost their credits towards their community. of course credit has been given in readmes and alike, but nobody actually cared who did it since ace was providing it (for instance even if RH or toadie use meshes and textures from cs:s community, most believe they did it and ask certain model changes that is most of the time outside the scope of all participants authors)

Everything you say there is bang on, PuFu. Absolutely bang on. I will say this to the credit thing too- the one REALLY smart thing Bohemia have done about allowing visibly for contributors is having author fields in most of the superclasses, and having them visible in, for example, Virtual Armoury. More things should actually read the field, but it's definitely a step in the right direction about giving everyone who made something a chance at equal billing visibility.

Personally I have no interest in becoming a fixture on a large scale project, I've got my own project goals I want to meet at my own pace. Howerver, if there was such a project going around that wanted to integrate existing content into theirs in a smooth way, providing the chain of authorship was maintained, I'd have no problem handing over source material if asked.

[Ckrauslo 12]

Guys i'm not saying here that all modders are selfish, and ass holes, that doesn't collaborate with each other, if you can find it in my posts you might need to practice reading a bit more.

Do they collaborate with each other? Yes they do, does that mean that they can't collaborate more? No, there is always room for improvement, we could be a much more friendly community without things like the ones guys like L3TUC3 is doing, where people respect each other a lot more, even when their views goes to a different way.

I think that by the amount of views this thread has had is something interesting and that the community would like to see... don't need to be for just one project... people could be helping each other out in several projects for example "Oh we just finished doing a project with the view of how the game should be for Subject Y, now please guys help me to accomplish mines"... not creating a limit by what you think the game should be or not, just simply help each other if you can... i'm not saying neglect your life, and use all your free time...just chat get to a consensus, and manage your times.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

For the record, there's a little rumor that, erm... Ace 3 exists... But anyhow, yes it can be done. But as it's been said many times, conflicting interests, ideas, and limitations of various kinds do keep these kinds of things at bay. Id say someone should try to do this after the Make Arma Not War Competition. Besides that the things i'd like to see in a massive mod like this is an interface like Take On Helicopters, with interactive nodes on all intractable objects. Realistic sounds for every single thing to a great deal of detail, as well as models of vehicles, weapons, and player models being high detail. Then there is the HUD vs. No HUD argument, which would fall under the conflict of interest category. But those are just a few of my ideas. It can be done, definitely. And heck, i'm not a modder, but id be glad to jump on board as the intensive idea guy.

[Ckrauslo 12]

Guys i'm not saying that this is for only one project, or for something like ACE i say again "Ace was just a comparison model due to it's quality"