Patch 1.24 (Bootcamp Update) Feedback

[b00tsy 28]

I admit it, I am an elitist for being able to click a button. One day I will be a ble to fire a weapon too.

[haleks 8204]

not sure what would cause the bullet crack to increase the fatigue.

It is caused by the TPW suppressive fire script (can't remember the name).

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

I admit it, I am an elitist for being able to click a button. One day I will be a ble to fire a weapon too.

You should play Portal 2 ^^ (It has some funny jokes on the "push the button" mechanics)

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

Actually, when the fatigue level is 0.9-1.0, your max speed is 7 km/h and 9 km/h if you lower your gun.

This level of exhaustion represents a state where you're nearly passed out, so 9 km/h is a lot more than the average walking speed (5-6 km/h).

Trained(!) squad leaders that carry only one rifle, 6 mags, a few smoke grenades and a vest (should total at around 25kg) are almost passing out when running (not sprinting) for 120 seconds?

Seems odd to me, maybe this needs some further testing/tweaking?

Curious why something odd like this made it to stable branch.

[Bouben 3]

I admit it, I am an elitist for being able to click a button. One day I will be a ble to fire a weapon too.

No, you are being elitist because you have a need to rage about achievements that only do good and nothing wrong. They are completely gameplay-safe and yet you have this strange need to write it to the thread as if it was a major issue. You simply feel as a little kid playing a kid's game because of the achievements but you want to feel the opposite - that you play a big-boys-hardcore-milsim simulation for the chosen ones.

You should get your childhood traumas sorted, really.

[wiggum2 31]

By all this talk about fatigue and weapon sway some seem to forget that it was always way to easy in arma to actually aim you weapon (and hit).

Everyone who fired real weapons in simulated/real combat knows what im talking about. There are some aspects about weapon handling a game like arma cant simulate so they have to find other ways to make the aiming more difficult for the player.

My main complain about ArmA is that the AI is way to good at aiming and not affected by all the things that make spotting/aiming difficult for the human player.

Also a real suppressive fire system would be needed + a better damage system. Thats the real ArmA problems !

insane AI accuracy + problematic damage system + no effect on AI from suppressive fire thats the ArmA problems...not fatigue and weapon sway.

[Greenfist 1863]

Trained(!) squad leaders that carry only one rifle, 6 mags, a few smoke grenades and a vest (should total at around 25kg) are almost passing out when running (not sprinting) for 120 seconds?

Seems odd to me, maybe this needs some further testing/tweaking?

Curious why something odd like this made it to stable branch.

Where did you get the 120 seconds?

I just tried it in the editor. A squad leader can run (not sprint) for 5 min 25 sec before he reaches the 0.9 fatigue. (1000m distance covered)

At 2:30 it's 0.5.

At 4:10 the speed has dropped to minimum, 9km/h.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Greenfist

[Trauma.au 10]

The virtual arsenal is great, I'd like to see the firing range aspect of it improve though. Maybe have different targets show up depending on the current weapon in your hands, or just add more targets, like near and far vehicles, choppers jets etc. Other than that I think it's great.

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

Where did you get the 120 seconds?

I just tried it in the editor. A squad leader can run (not sprint) 5 min 25 sec before he reaches the 0.9 fatigue.

At 2:30 it's 0.5.

At 4:10 the speed has dropped to minimum, 9km/h.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19727 (comments)

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19737

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19695

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19720

My test:

The values have been taken from the squad leader (blufor).

[Greenfist 1863]

Oh, I see. Next time, lower your weapon before going for a run. ;)

And my squad leader can still run 3.5 minutes with the gun raised before hitting 0.9. :confused:

My guess is that you're using something like diag_tickTime to measure the time and then accelerate the time, which breaks the clock.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Greenfist

[b00tsy 28]

No, you are being elitist because you have a need to rage about achievements that only do good and nothing wrong. They are completely gameplay-safe and yet you have this strange need to write it to the thread as if it was a major issue. You simply feel as a little kid playing a kid's game because of the achievements but you want to feel the opposite - that you play a big-boys-hardcore-milsim simulation for the chosen ones.

You should get your childhood traumas sorted, really.

Not sure what your problem is, but you should take a chill pill or something, you are the only one making it into a big issue. Nowhere was I 'raging' about achievements, just stated my opinion about the sillyness of adding 'clicking a button' achievement. I know BI wants to be more mainstream and for all ages (even though it's pegi 16+), but they don't have to take is to far that clicking a button is an achievement now. But you are right that it makes me feel like a kid playing a kids game when they add that and I see it popping up my screen.

[vegeta897 13]

Not sure what your problem is, but you should take a chill pill or something, you are the only one making it into a big issue. Nowhere was I 'raging' about achievements, just stated my opinion about the sillyness of adding 'clicking a button' achievement. I know BI wants to be more mainstream and for all ages (even though it's pegi 16+), but they don't have to take is to far that clicking a button is an achievement now. But you are right that it makes me feel like a kid playing a kids game when they add that and I see it popping up my screen.

Maybe, perhaps, they added in an achievement that is very simple to get, to just introduce the idea of achievements to the player, thus encouraging him or her to check what other achievements are available? This would not be the first game to do this. Your constant comparisons between a single giveaway achievement and being a child are really not helping the point you're trying to make, and they do make you sound elitist. It's a game.

Also, you see it pop up once, ever, and that's it. The fact that you're posting about it means you don't have to worry about it happening again.

[j4you 10]

Everyone who fired real weapons in simulated/real combat knows what im talking about. There are some aspects about weapon handling a game like arma cant simulate so they have to find other ways to make the aiming more difficult for the player.

I agree,but there was another way for develop that effect:

Increase the recoil weapon. (Because now it's very low....too low.)

Decrease the swing weapon when you are close to 0% fatigue. (In relation and encouraged about your posture)

Give more importance when you hold your breath. (Could be acceptable keep stabilize your aim from 0.5-3 sec in steps 0.5-1.0-1.5-2.0-2.5-3.0...always in relation your fatigue and your scope magnification .)

That's all!,,,It's very easy to make it....more immersive and whitout give up to the fatigue effect and..more credible.

....that will be perfect!

Edited July 17, 2014 by j4you

[13islucky 10]

I personally didn't have too big a problem with the sway (the key is not to fight it), I kinda liked the challenge. Either way, the sway is pretty toned down in devbranch, so well, you know.

Also, I approve of j4you's suggestions, they make sense.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Alright, a Pro Tip from the ANVIL Special Operations Command.

Learn to counter the sway as is meant to be handled. When you aim, watch the sway. Now, move your mouse against it, and notice it's easier to handle. Most importantly, holding your breath MATTERS. When you hold your breath, it counters the Up and Down sway which counts for Breathing. Ounce you get a hang of it, it'll be easier to handle most if not any guns you use. Don't forget to position your stance depending on the situation. If you feel you can't take a shot, and the conditions permit, don't. Wait it out until you feel you wont be putting yourself or your team mates at risk by possibly giving away your position with in accurate gunfire. Carry on.

DarkSideSix Out!

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

My guess is that you're using something like diag_tickTime to measure the time and then accelerate the time, which breaks the clock.

Feel free to try it out yourself:

nul = [this] spawn {

_fatigueunit = _this select 0;

while {alive _fatigueunit} do {
hintsilent format ["Fatigue: %1\nSpeed: %2 km/h\nTime running: %3",getfatigue _fatigueunit,round speed _fatigueunit,time];
sleep 0.02}
};

Why should I try to accelerate the time doing tests for the feedback tracker?

Ticket: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19720

I couldn't make an AI leader run for more than 2 minutes without having his fatigue hit 0.9, not when using stock BI units.

30 seconds in fatigue is already sitting at 0.45, at around 70 seconds fatigue is at 0.7.

All these values are taken from the rather lightly equipped Blufor Nato Squad Leader.

What do you mean the AI should run without having the rifle raised? Never seen them running with raised weapons before, are you using any mods?

[Greenfist 1863]

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize you were talking about an AI soldier. I guess it's different with them than with player fatigue. Way different, in fact. (I was wrong, it isn't).

And with the raised rifle I meant that you get fatigued slower if you lower it.

By the way, you said:

... are almost passing out when running (not sprinting) for 120 seconds?

An AI soldier with a waypoint will sprint. Just look at your script's speed: 18km/h = sprint. Running would be 14 km/h.

But I completely agree, that is a problem if you can't limit the AI's speed.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Greenfist

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

No Harm done,

Making a new fatigue system is one thing, making the AI utilize it is something entirely different.

Why they put this new system on the stable branch without taking appropriate modifications in AI behavior is beyond me,

maybe this will be adjusted, as of right now it's a horror having to command AI units.

About the default AI sprint, default AI speedmode is "Normal" I suppose, so they actually sprint in "Normal" speedmode, weird.

Another issue is that unarmed units are unable to sprint like a player could (with arms flailing wildly), even with a speedmode set to "Full", they just can't.

Curious about how they wanna fix this, I'd say have the slowdown kick in at 0.9 and increase it the longer the fatigue value stays above 0.9, this way AI will be able to rapidly move around 400-500m without being short of an heart attack.

[Greenfist 1863]

You could also use _fatigueunit limitspeed 14 which limits his speed to normal running. This was the only way I could stop him from sprinting to waypoint. (you can make him walk, but that's too slow.)

Makes mission making a bit more complicated though.

edit. I got it! Set the waypoint behaviour to Careless or Safe and use the limitspeed. This way he lowers the gun and runs on normal speed. With lowered gun, he can run those 5 minutes before 90% fatigue.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Greenfist

[Trobo 10]

Love the update and new sway business, and VR arsenal really helps learn who is going be slow in your squad and why, and creating loadouts for use in zeus sounds awesome. I read people cant snipe anymore. Before the update it was easy to hit a target 800 metres + away using a sniper rifle. Well easier than I thought was accurate. Now it's much harder. I think the sway helped with this but im not really sure - should it be easy for real army dudes to hit targets 800m + away with 'man portable' guns?

[nihilistxxx 10]

This 1.24 update really sucks ass! Nothing works anymore, all the mods are now fucked up cause loss of sound! I hope this will be fixed soon. :mad:

[Maio 293]

This 1.24 update really sucks ass! Nothing works anymore, all the mods are now fucked up cause loss of sound! I hope this will be fixed soon. :mad:

When expressing discontent with an update/feature/etc, please refrain from using bad language.

Thanks :)

[Scorpious 10]

new update horrible 20 million sound errors

needs to be fixed

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

new update horrible 20 million sound errors

needs to be fixed

Are you using a sound mod? I know jsrs has been updated , cheers to jarhead.

Bootcamp is serves its purpose well. Teaching important compass bearings training. Which is essential for new players.

Tge actual mission was pretty fun . Nice voice works only one bug guy in a wall at weapon stash house.

The fatigue is quite annoying more a nuisance than immersion. Building Even with a light load (no bag) a 100 meters at regular pace messes you up.

Far as I know over the top weapon sway has been addressed in dev branch. So look forward to this.

[Wehrmacht_Bunny 11]

new update horrible 20 million sound errors

needs to be fixed

Agreed.

[vegeta897 13]

It would be helpful if you specified what sound mod or weapon mod you're using that is now broken. Several of them have been updated already to comply with the new patch.