Burnes Armories Tanks and Deployment Vehicles

[Fal Soram 10]

afaik RHS's system is quite similar to RAM's. I use RAM to make vanilla Arma tanks not slaughter RHS ones. Works quite well.

[Guest]

afaik RHS's system is quite similar to RAM's. I use RAM to make vanilla Arma tanks not slaughter RHS ones. Works quite well.

so you're saying though that RHS vehicles are comparatively weak compared to vehicles based in the vanilla game?

[Damian90 696]

so you're saying though that RHS vehicles are comparatively weak compared to vehicles based in the vanilla game?

It is because vanilla game system is completely unrealistic, based on hitpoints system.

RHS uses RAM based sollution, where we have a physically modeled armor with KE and CE protection values, and ammunition (KE or CE) with penetration values. So projectile make damage to vehicle only, when armor is physically pierced by it. This however creates problems with vanilla content as it is not compatibile with RHS.

For example if you place our M1A2SEPv1 and start firing at it's front turret armor with T-80U 3BM46 APFSDS (KE) rounds, you can spend whole week firing at it and reloading at ammo trucks, and You won't do any damage... unless you hit a weaker protected spot or surface. It is because front turret armor of M1A2SEPv1 have higher KE protection values thant 3BM46 penetration values. Same with front lower hull ("beak") armor (tough there is a small bug with it right now we need to solve).

System is not perfect yet but we made great progress in 0.3.5 compared to 0.3.0 version.

This system is interesting because it forces players to know their vehicles strong and weak sides (same goes for enemy vehicles), and use tactics, like flanking, or using hull down position.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Damian90

[Guest]

It is because vanilla game system is completely unrealistic, based on hitpoints system.

RHS uses RAM based sollution, where we have a physically modeled armor with KE and CE protection values, and ammunition (KE or CE) with penetration values. So projectile make damage to vehicle only, when armor is physically pierced by it. This however creates problems with vanilla content as it is not compatibile with RHS.

For example if you place our M1A2SEPv1 and start firing at it's front turret armor with T-80U 3BM46 APFSDS (KE) rounds, you can spend whole week firing at it and reloading at ammo trucks, and You won't do any damage... unless you hit a weaker protected spot or surface. It is because front turret armor of M1A2SEPv1 have higher KE protection values thant 3BM46 penetration values. Same with front lower hull ("beak") armor (tough there is a small bug with it right now we need to solve).

System is not perfect yet but we made great progress in 0.3.5 compared to 0.3.0 version.

yeah tbh RAM is about as in depth as we need it to be. damage scaling seems fine with the units we are using although i have now updated the AI damageResistance parameter (defines whether AI 'think' they can damage a unit and therefore whether they are proactive in attacking) so attack frequency will increase i would imagine.

BTW Chobham armour, being constructed of ceramic tiles, degrades after being hit so eventually you would get penetration with rounds lower than its rated thickness.

[Damian90 696]

BTW Chobham armour, being constructed of ceramic tiles, degrades after being hit so eventually you would get penetration with rounds lower than its rated thickness.

Declassified documents and photographs of prototypes and armor sets from tests shows that armors developed within program codenamed "Burlington" ("Chobham" is just a fantasy of some journalist that came up to popular use, such codename or thing never officialy existed), shows that ceramics were never used.

M1 Abrams, Challenger 1 & 2, Leopard 2 or Leclerc armor is based on multiple layers of steel or other metal plates (Depleted Uranium alloy, Tungsten alloy, Alluminium alloy, Titanium alloy etc.) with non metalic interlayers like rubber or polyethylene (or similiar materials), in essence armor of these vehicles is NERA - Non Energetic Reactive Armor and not passive composite.

Tough obviously even metallic armor after some number of hits will just start to physically disintegrate, however such level of simulation is beyond our capabilities or engine capabilities.

Passive composite armors using ceramics in NATO for tank class vehicles applications were mostly experimental and never ended in active service, while they did in Soviet Union, for example "Combination K" used on T-64 series or "Sand Rods" in early T-72 and T-80 series, later replaced with NERA type "Reflective Plates" armor.

Just two cents from my own research and research + great discussion with Olds about how to transfer real life to the RAM and RHS armor system. ;)

Edited January 4, 2015 by Damian90

[Guest]

Declassified documents and photographs of prototypes and armor sets from tests shows that armors developed within program codenamed "Burlington" ("Chobham" is just a fantasy of some journalist that came up to popular use, such codename or thing never officialy existed), shows that ceramics were never used.

M1 Abrams, Challenger 1 & 2, Leopard 2 or Leclerc armor is based on multiple layers of steel or other metal plates (Depleted Uranium alloy, Tungsten alloy, Alluminium alloy, Titanium alloy etc.) with non metalic interlayers like rubber or polyethylene (or similiar materials), in essence armor of these vehicles is NERA - Non Energetic Reactive Armor and not passive composite.

Passive composite armors using ceramics in NATO for tank class vehicles applications were mostly experimental and never ended in active service, while they did in Soviet Union, for example "Combination K" used on T-64 series or "Sand Rods" in early T-72 and T-80 series, later replaced with NERA type "Reflective Plates" armor.

i guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

Anyway I'm happy to simply add a notice that these vehicles should not be used with RHS due to disparities with armour/damage values. Should prevent confusion in future

[hieronymus 10]

sorry guys not sure what you're doing that we're not but we have several videos available on my channel fromtraining sessions where these have been destroyed with 2-3 AT weapon hits or tank hits. the main page here has a video up now where LCpl Yoshida's tank was violently destroyed by AT. noone had any problem with engaging us at all. If anything the armour is too vulnerable by comparison to real life reports. RAM is being used in all sessions we record.

EDIT - I'm going to drop the AI damageResistance value down a few decimal places see if that is more to your tastes.

Don't bother man, there is probably something wrong with my mod combination. If its fine in your test sessions, the problem is certainly on my part.

Now, where exactly can it be though?..

I've just run a few tests and again 10 side hits with titans did no damage to the tank. 2 missiles to the backside (in the middle where there is no SLAT armor) managed to damage its engine though.

And yeah, enemy AT specialists and choppers still refuse to shoot it even with DESTROY waypoint on it.

[Guest]

Don't bother man, there is probably something wrong with my mod combination. If its fine in your test sessions, the problem is certainly on my part.

Now, where exactly can it be though?..

I've just run a few tests and again 10 side hits with titans did no damage to the tank. 2 missiles to the backside (in the middle where there is no SLAT armor) managed to damage its engine though.

And yeah, enemy AT specialists and choppers still refuse to shoot it even with DESTROY waypoint on it.

I havn't put the updated file up yet lol. Will post in a few minutes when its uploaded :p

EDIT - I've also added an extra pbo with crewman put together from stock a3 content, using CTRG and aff crew helemts. not ideal but better than having US guys in there all the time lol

EDIT2 - Ok new file is up. altered some values regarding AI perception of armour, lowered some non critical armour values (tracks etc), changed the setObjectTexture commands to make them global. further csound adjustments and added crewmen (wip, they have no weapons atm)

apologies to Foxhound and PW6 for the sudden re-uploads lol. :p

Edited January 4, 2015 by Guest

[Fal Soram 10]

so you're saying though that RHS vehicles are comparatively weak compared to vehicles based in the vanilla game?

Yep, without RAM a single T-100 would wipe the floor with a platoon worth of M1A2's, and probably be good for a round two right after.

[serjames 357]

I regularly test with Both RHS soviet tanks and Challenger2 - that combo pretty much gets used in every SP test I do.

If the T80 spots the Chally first. And gets a good hit in.. It can one shot the chally2 I've seen it dozens of times. However if it's a frontal attack the T80 stands little chance of penetrating - Chally will normally defeat most tanks on 1st or 2nd shot.

It's not the armour. If I was to tweak ANYTHING it would be the Chally2's Fin round. It's a bit too good imo

I Don't run RAM btw

SJ

[Damian90 696]

By ESim estimations, the British L27A1 CHARM3 APFSDS round should be able to penetrate ~610mm of RHA at 2000m range, there was newer L28 on development with slightly greater penetration (~630mm RHA at 2000m) but for years nothing was heard about these rounds being inducted in to service, at least in greater numbers.

[Guest]

Seems like a good time to announce that Davids, a currently serving British soldier, has provided me with a WIP model and some absolutely incredible source reference images for the FV107 Scimitar. Including a full set of images for the turret interior and systems. So that will greatly help getting the Scimitar up to as immersive level as the Challenger. So we'll hopefully have Armoured Recon capabilities soon. Big thanks to Davids for contributing to this and i know he's looking forward to seeing the final vehicle in game :)

[serjames 357]

Didn't Davids release that for A2 - it was superb if it's the same one :@)

[jonpas 289]

Not sure if reported yet, but a few issues with the LCU:

- When driving up the front ramp and pressing "load cargo" when facing the rear ramp, then "unload cargo" it will turn the vehicle around 180 degrees, facing the front ramp.

- "Unrecognized texture type '': 'a3\data_f\env_land_co'" AND "Warning Message: Cannot load texture a3\data_f\env_land_co"

- With Quadbike, when using "load cargo" in Driver's seat it will lock you in place and you won't be able to get out, the only way to get out is by "unload cargo" or moving to passenger's seat. Happens with other vehicles sometimes as well (happened to me with a Hunter after transporting it, just locked movement, luckily I could unload).

Great work otherwise, love it!

Edited January 5, 2015 by Jonpas

[ACPL Jon 68]

Sorry if that was brought up earlier, but is there any ETA on the next Abrams update? Challenger gets updates pretty often compared to the M1A1 / M1A2.

It's not that I don't like Challenger or UK\UE equipment (and great work on that, as You know), it's just that many of us can't wait for Your US equipment updates as well (Abrams, AAV-7P) - stuff like flickering "things" (not really sure what that is) on the M1A2 turret, inability to load MPAT into one of the variants (not sure whether it wasn't fixed already, gotta re-check) or texture errors doesn't really look great on videos :P

Don't get me wrong, it's not whining, Your work is greatly appreciated and simply... needed. So, any newer version of Abrams, pls? :*

[Guest]

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

Burnes Armories - FV4034 Challenger 2 TES v10 beta hotfix



Community Base addons A3

Authentic Gameplay Modification (AGM)

================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means soon you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

[sonsalt6 105]

Updated mod 0.10.1-alpha available at withSIX. Download now by clicking:

[warlord554 2065]

this is what I get when I place the latest LCAC.

Stable Branch, no mods

[Guest]

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz99/boostedhardtsi34/arma32015-01-0512-11-06-01_zpsb9fa8601.jpg

this is what I get when I place the latest LCAC.

Stable Branch, no mods

LCAC hasn't been updated in months and works fine for everyone else. If others report similar issues I'll look into it but at the minute this is the first report of this nature. For the sake of ruling out potential causes i would advise to maybe redownload the files and/or check the integrity of your local arma files.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

Not sure if reported yet, but a few issues with the LCU:

- When driving up the front ramp and pressing "load cargo" when facing the rear ramp, then "unload cargo" it will turn the vehicle around 180 degrees, facing the front ramp.

- "Unrecognized texture type '': 'a3\data_f\env_land_co'" AND "Warning Message: Cannot load texture a3\data_f\env_land_co"

- With Quadbike, when using "load cargo" in Driver's seat it will lock you in place and you won't be able to get out, the only way to get out is by "unload cargo" or moving to passenger's seat. Happens with other vehicles sometimes as well (happened to me with a Hunter after transporting it, just locked movement, luckily I could unload).

Great work otherwise, love it!

have you watched the instructional video about the LCAC? while prepped for loading the vehicles simulation is disabled. so until it is prepped for movement anyone in the loaded vehicles will lose all control even head movement.

Thank you for posting the other bug messages thoguh I will look into getting those sorted out for the next update :)

---------- Post added at 23:03 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ----------

Sorry if that was brought up earlier, but is there any ETA on the next Abrams update? Challenger gets updates pretty often compared to the M1A1 / M1A2.

It's not that I don't like Challenger or UK\UE equipment (and great work on that, as You know), it's just that many of us can't wait for Your US equipment updates as well (Abrams, AAV-7P) - stuff like flickering "things" (not really sure what that is) on the M1A2 turret, inability to load MPAT into one of the variants (not sure whether it wasn't fixed already, gotta re-check) or texture errors doesn't really look great on videos :P

Don't get me wrong, it's not whining, Your work is greatly appreciated and simply... needed. So, any newer version of Abrams, pls? :*

I appreciate your anticipation of the new Abrams and it will be ready sometime this week. I try to get as much modding done when i have the time but as I'm sure you can imagine balancing this with University and Work sometimes means I lag behind a little lol. There are many realism units waiting for this release too so it is a high priority to me along with the AAV which should be released about the same time.

I would like to announce now though just for the sake of full disclosure that following the release of the new Abrams and AAV i intend to focus on UK/EU equipment almost exclusively for a little while. The reasons for this are that there is very little specialized equipment available for UK realism units atm (we've been discussing plans with several prominent realism units about the mods they need and I'm looking forward to getting those done) and also that the idea behind the original project here was essentially immersive tanks and ship to shore solutions for those tanks, I'm about half way throguh the Leopards and would like to get started on the LeClerc so that our German and French brethren can have some fun too :)

[warlord554 2065]

I put the pbo directly into the A3 vanilla addons folder and it works fine. Weird. Anyways nice job on it

[ChumChurum 10]

Awesome job, man) cant wait for the T90)

btw RHS planning to make T-90MS Tagil in future and it would be great if you could make interiors for that as well later on)

keep up the great work)

P.S.

You might know it but I think it wont hurt to say that Steel Beast wiki has some basic info on T90S that I assume you are already making.

I could also dig in some Russian websites and translate some stuff for you if you want )

Edit 1: Challenger 2 stuff I found. I don't know if is only me, but when I'm trying to get into the loader position my character switches to driver or completely gets kicked out of the tank

and this thing is literally unkillable....I think I tried to shot it with every vanilla and RHS:Escalation ATs and Tanks....and it keeps standing 100% battle ready. the only time I was actually able to deliver some damage was from the other challenger...weird....is anyone experiencing the same thing?

Other then that the mod is epic...I think I even wet my pants a little...need to check again brb

Edited January 6, 2015 by ChumChurum

[Yoshi 10]

T-90 information is generally not that hard to find. just search general sites and forums, pull up specs and wiki's etc. That should get you some good info on it, other than that try looking for some pdf's, they contain a lot of good information depending on if people bother getting round to them.

Also on the note of the LCAC and other mods for that matter. Running any mod on vanilla potentially provides errors in game, it's best to run any mods you have with CBA. :)

[serjames 357]

Running any mod on vanilla potentially provides errors in game, it's best to run any mods you have with CBA. :)

Yoshi - not sure that's quite accurate...

The mod either needs CBA or it doesn't.

[disco.modder 116]

I would like to announce now though just for the sake of full disclosure that following the release of the new Abrams and AAV i intend to focus on UK/EU equipment almost exclusively for a little while. The reasons for this are that there is very little specialized equipment available for UK realism units atm (we've been discussing plans with several prominent realism units about the mods they need and I'm looking forward to getting those done) and also that the idea behind the original project here was essentially immersive tanks and ship to shore solutions for those tanks, I'm about half way throguh the Leopards and would like to get started on the LeClerc so that our German and French brethren can have some fun too :)

I refresh Armaholic by the hour anticipating for the HMS Bulwark. I think its great that you're going to give the UK and EU some love. Its not always the US thats under the spotlight. :)

Thanks for your work & dedication!

[pulstar 55]

I have been playing a bit solo Steel Beasts recently, in Arma it's still years away from achieving that mechanized combat milieu, but thanks to efforts of valiant members like Burnes the tanks in Arma can achieve pretty good combined-arms role.