End of Gamespy? For Real?

[Nicholas 5]

So what's the problem with this again?

Ummm, you're the one who brought up these "problems".

Sooner or later Steam will share the destiny of Gamespy or just degrade into another Origin with hats and useless levels... then what? Unlike previous games, Arma 3 is deeply integrated with Steam and probably unplayable without it. So instead of a small and almost unnoticeable service that doesn't critically affect players' ability to enjoy the game, we now have a big service full of bugs and social junk, that serves solely one purpose — increasing wealth of its owners by means including, but not limited to, not allowing players to be independed from that service.

I don't see how Steam is better solution.

[semiconductor 309]

Ummm, you're the one who brought up these "problems".

Talking about issues caused by integration with Steam is prohibited at this forum?

All I was saying is that Steam is no better than a Gamespy in terms of Arma's dependence on third-party service. Not only because one day Steam might significantly change it's policy or even stop providing its services just like Gamespy did, but also because it's deeply integrates with games, rendering them even more dependent on stability of external service.

[Nicholas 5]

Talking about issues caused by integration with Steam is prohibited at this forum?

All I was saying is that Steam is no better than a Gamespy in terms of Arma's dependence on third-party service. Not only because one day Steam might significantly change it's policy or even stop providing it's services just like Gamespy did, but also because it's deeply integrates with games, rendering them even more dependent on stability of external service.

And that's what led to your conversation with Sniperwolf572. No one here is saying that Steam is better than anything. We understand your concerns with full integration with Steam, but like others have said, do you have a better alternative than Steam? Something viable and realistic.

I hate the excuse that Steam could one day shut down or change it's policy, well what if Bohemia Interactive shut down or changed their policy before Steam does? What if Bohemia Interactive is bought out. Anything could happen. You have to think with more logic.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Nicholas

[semiconductor 309]

And that's what led to your conversation with Sniperwolf572. No one here is saying that Steam is better than anything. We understand your concerns with full integration with Steam, but like others have said, do you have a better alternative than Steam? Something viable and realistic.

There is no reasonable alternative to Steam for now, but, again, I'm not asking BI to remove Arma from Steam and Steam from Arma. Still, detaching Arma 3 from Steam-dependent features via some kind of no-Steam patch might be a good idea after some point. Several developers (e.g. Egosoft) actually remove protection form their games after couple of years to save players from having trouble with backups and protection compatibility, perhaps BIS could do the same.

I hate the excuse that Steam could one day shut down or change it's policy, well what if Bohemia Interactive shut down or changed their policy before Steam does?

Nobody could say what will happen with the Arma 3, but I'm pretty sure that there is no change in policy that could affect physical copy of Arma 2 which, if I remember correctly, doesn't even require one-time Internet connection for activation. Since the only service Arma 2 relies on is the Gamespy, everybody can install and enjoy his copy of the game even if the entire Internet infrastructure disappear from the face of the earth. ;)

[Nicholas 5]

There is no reasonable alternative to Steam for now, but, again, I'm not asking BI to remove Arma from Steam and Steam from Arma. Still, detaching Arma 3 from Steam-dependent features via some kind of no-Steam patch might be a good idea after some point. Several developers (e.g. Egosoft) actually remove protection form their games after couple of years to save players from having trouble with backups and protection compatibility, perhaps BIS could do the same.

I understand that you're not asking them to remove Steam, I understand that you're not saying that Steam is or isn't better than Gamespy. I'm only saying that Steam is the only viable and logical service available right now. You said "I don't see how Steam is better solution." No one here said it was a better solution only that it was good that they decided to move on it. Bohemia Interactive has removed copy protection in all of their games after some time. I don't know how reliant ArmA 3 is on Steam, but it might be possible, it might not be. If it isn't, well tough shit, I can live without ArmA.

“Our approach is to remove conventional DRM not too long after the initial game’s release to ensure as smooth an experience as possible for our legitimate users and still appeal to our distribution and publishing channels,â€

Nobody could say what will happen with the Arma 3, but I'm pretty sure that there is no change in policy that could affect physical copy of Arma 2 which, if I remember correctly, doesn't even require one-time Internet connection for activation. Since the only service Arma 2 relies on is the Gamespy, everybody can install and enjoy his copy of the game even if the entire Internet infrastructure disappear from the face of the earth.

I could do the same with my Steam copy. Steam allows you to backup and restore your games. I am able to run Steam without an internet connection, I just tried it by disconnecting my ethernet cable. As long as you have a functional hard drive and computer capable of playing, you could continue playing after Steam or anything else has died.

[maturin 12]

Does mean we finally say goodbye to the AWFUL USELESS LAGGY server browser?

[GieNkoV 30]

What about ArmA 2 OA DVD version? Will it stop working and I will need Steam version to play online?

Wysłane z mojego Xperia Live with Walkman przy użyciu Tapatalka

[maddogx 13]

Better solution tbh would´ve been to start thinking about this whole deal much, much earlier!

It´s sad enough that this will definately end the era of OFP (the original) for good.. really can´t (under)stand the white knighting here.

We're talking about realistic solutions to a problem here, not wishful thinking. Gamespy is dead, Steam is here and it works. Even Steam-haters are admitting that there is no other viable solution right now. "White knighting" my ass.

As for "they should have thought about this much earlier"... have you considered that maybe they started implementing the Steam browser months ago for exactly this reason? Remember (also months ago) when Dwarden said there was "bad news for Arma MP and multiplayer gaming in general" coming soon? Not everyone was surprised by this news.

EDIT: it seems this thread was moved from ARMA 3 General to the off-topic section, so I have to clarify that my above statements are referring to A3, specifically.

Edited April 4, 2014 by MadDogX

[Nicholas 5]

EDIT: it seems this thread was moved from ARMA 3 General to the off-topic section, so I have to clarify that my above statements are referring to A3, specifically.

Sorry about that. I asked to have this thread moved here as I felt that it wasn't necessarily about ArmA 3 alone.

[twisted 127]

so if i want to activate the cd of arma2 (or more accurately TKOH) how does that happen after the date?

[nettrucker 142]

What about ArmA 2 OA DVD version? Will it stop working and I will need Steam version to play online?

Wysłane z mojego Xperia Live with Walkman przy użyciu Tapatalka

Most probably you have to open a Steam account to be able to play in MP, in the worst case you might be forced to buy a steam version of the game. I hope that BIS can clarify on this matter.

Edited April 5, 2014 by nettrucker

[John Kozak 14]

Most probably you have to open a Steam account to be able to play in MP, in the worst case you might be forced to buy a steam version of the game. I hope that BIS can clarify on this matter.

It can be handled without pain - for example, BIS might sell steam keys for 2-3$ for existing ArmA 2/OA owners with valid keys.

[Tonci87 163]

It can be handled without pain - for example, BIS might sell steam keys for 2-3$ for existing ArmA 2/OA owners with valid keys.

I sure as hell am not going to pay again for something I already bought.

[.Taffy 10]

I sure as hell am not going to pay again for something I already bought.

Absolutely right!

[Tonci87 163]

Seriously, are kids stupid these days? Everywhere I look I see paying customers asking, no, begging to be charged again and be ripped off by more DLC and extra costs. Do all those people still get their money from their parents? Jesus christ it is no wonder that the gaming industry has become what it is now with such people around who are willing to pay for every piece of crap developers and publishers drop on them.

[nettrucker 142]

I sure as hell am not going to pay again for something I already bought.

Couldn't agree more with you.

[mr burns 131]

We're talking about realistic solutions to a problem here, not wishful thinking. Gamespy is dead, Steam is here and it works. Even Steam-haters are admitting that there is no other viable solution right now. "White knighting" my ass.

As for "they should have thought about this much earlier"... have you considered that maybe they started implementing the Steam browser months ago for exactly this reason? Remember (also months ago) when Dwarden said there was "bad news for Arma MP and multiplayer gaming in general" coming soon? Not everyone was surprised by this news.

Solutions must not automatically be a good thing. There´s lots of shit moves which go by the name of "solutions"...

To be fair, at least BI is adressing the situation - i´ve read on PC Gamer they are the first of all gamespy'y devs to act on this.

Then again, you sure as hell would think that an MP centric game such as ArmA series would get proper treatment in times like this!

Forcing steam onto people who, until now, could happily just stay with A2 is the wrong thing to do imho (impending clusterfuck).

It´s also wrong to just abandon the bigger part of games which made you big and which are still loved by people.

Then comes the question of "what happens to my non steam ArmA2 CO".

BI hasn´t even cleared that up, they probably dont know themselves yet.

But i guess you cant have everything. Zombies sell so much easier..

[Colossus 2]

Hopefully BI would be kind enough to implement some sort of solution to the previous games that doesn't involve buying them again on Steam. I wouldn't mind having them on Steam, just not repurchased due to GameSpy ceasing all their services. This is not a problem for me, but not everyone has ArmA X on Steam.

I do welcome the change, however. If there's one thing that hasn't been changed a lot since the stone ages, it has to be the server browser system. It is long overdo for it to be swapped out and improved, because what it is now is a sorry excuse for a server browser in modern day computing. A system based on Steam or not, it needs change.

Kinda sucks with the other games though, because I'm fairly sure no one will attempt to fix this from a official standpoint, unless the communities are able to do something about it themselves. Crysis 2, Red Dead Redemption, Unreal Tournament, Total War series, Company of Heroes (although I think they got a Steam version now), and last but not least; Battlefield 2.

Edited April 5, 2014 by colossus

[John Kozak 14]

I sure as hell am not going to pay again for something I already bought.

And BI can tell the same about A2 support - why do they need to support a game they already sold 4+ years ago? You wanna play, you pay. Neither Steam nor any other middleware provider doesn't give their services (CDNs and server browser backbone) for free.

Seriously, are kids stupid these days? Everywhere I look I see paying customers asking, no, begging to be charged again and be ripped off by more DLC and extra costs. Do all those people still get their money from their parents? Jesus christ it is no wonder that the gaming industry has become what it is now with such people around who are willing to pay for every piece of crap developers and publishers drop on them.

No, stupid kids are throwing around insults and expect everyone to please them for free.

Edited April 5, 2014 by DarkWanderer

[chortles 263]

Then comes the question of "what happens to my non steam ArmA2 CO".

BI hasn´t even cleared that up, they probably dont know themselves yet.

On the contrary OA is already announced by Maruk to be getting "an alternative solution using Steam to Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead and Arma 3 users." Considering that CO is essentially running A2 content through one's OA client, I don't see why there would be any difference here (at least, not with the vagueness of Maruk's wording).

[maffa 29]

the questions from the ignorant:

- will this affect PUG public servers?

- will this affect private (clan) run servers?

- will this affect any attempt to join a server you know the IP?

- are there any alternative like WithSix or Addon Synch to work around the issue?

[John Kozak 14]

the questions from the ignorant:

- will this affect PUG public servers?

- will this affect private (clan) run servers?

- will this affect any attempt to join a server you know the IP?

- are there any alternative like WithSix or Addon Synch to work around the issue?

Valid questions. Answers are:

1. Not sure what PUG is, but regular public servers would most likely get much less players, since players will have to know how to connect to specific server via IP
   
2. Won't affect strongly as long as whoever is hosting for the party can give his IP or hostname to all the squadmates
   
3. No, it would work as before
   
4. Not yet, but given A2 popularity, someone may try a take on it soon. As you can see above, BI also has plans to fix A2OA, but older titles are dependent on external solutions.
   

[maffa 29]

Thanks darkwnderer

for the record PUG: Pick Up Games/Group, it generally means MP games with random players (generally referred to MMORPG like WOW random parties for instanced raids). It's the general game mode for public servers at least as i mean it.

I think i understood that one of the features that will be empaired will be direct connect/VPN, is that true? that means that if someone is hosting a local game on a normal pc (maybe behind a NAT) he will be likely to have some tunnelling sw like Hamachi to work around it, isnt that true?

[j0e 1]

(..)

I think i understood that one of the features that will be empaired will be direct connect/VPN, is that true? that means that if someone is hosting a local game on a normal pc (maybe behind a NAT) he will be likely to have some tunnelling sw like Hamachi to work around it, isnt that true?

I don't think so. The gamespy closure -is not related to / isn't responsible for- that.

What you say is a basic requirement to host, whatever you want to share. ;)

Unless somebody pops up and tells that gamespy offers a vpn similar service. :eek:

[John Kozak 14]

Thanks darkwnderer

for the record PUG: Pick Up Games/Group, it generally means MP games with random players (generally referred to MMORPG like WOW random parties for instanced raids). It's the general game mode for public servers at least as i mean it.

I think i understood that one of the features that will be empaired will be direct connect/VPN, is that true? that means that if someone is hosting a local game on a normal pc (maybe behind a NAT) he will be likely to have some tunnelling sw like Hamachi to work around it, isnt that true?

Possibly for some types of NAT, but I'm not sure of that. It's best to have a dedicated IP and/or port forwarding anyway.