AI pathfinding is nearly ruining Zeus

[iconoclastdx 5]

As much as I like the new game mode it is really exposing the lack-luster pathfinding, especially with vehicles. I am lucky if half of my vehicles make it to a reasonably distant waypoint in zeus. As usual, it's rocks, stone fences and barriers which are the worse offenders. In fact, I rather send my hunter into a swarm of angry opfor than across a field of stonefences. Are other people noticing this?

[soulis6 24]

Yeah it's not too great over long distances.

It works better if they're on roads and you set the vehicle's group combat state to "safe", they'll generally follow the roads and travel with the rest of the vehicles in their groups. Although even with this, i've had problems where they've been travelling fine for a while and suddenly one vehicle will try and turn for some reason, or try and move around another, and resulting mess of stop-start moving from vehicles behind them will cause the whole group is delayed by minutes.

It does seem like it's been improved a lot since the alpha/beta (I remember whole trucks breaking their wheels on the short, almost invisible stone walls every minute or two), but still could use some work.

[General Kong 148]

Agreed, AI really needs an overhaul for Zeus, mostly in regards to infantry, since they have a tendancy to run off either in the opposite direction when a battle starts, or go ten miles to the left then suddenly make their way back

and also their use of vehicles need to be improved too, way to many times do they drive along a rode in the middle of town then suddenly one drives into a house

[iconoclastdx 5]

Re: Soulis6. I agree 100% that the vehicle pathfinding is MUCH improved. I don't want to minimize the progress in this area as it has been significant. I also want to applaud the teams vision and productivity it took to bring us this great mode in such a short time. Unfortunately, it's just the scale of AI pathing required of zeus gameplay (particularly for vehicles) that really exacerbates its weakness. Any other 'RTS'ish game would not exist if it could not carryout the basic function of moving units reliably from point A to point B.

[iconoclastdx 5]

After playing more I think there is an easier solution. Just allow AI controlled vehicles to noclip through small rocks and fences. While this does solve the over-arching pathfinding issue (if that's even possible) it should effectively mitigate 90% of the issue. Which is that AI vehicles not likely to arrive safely or at all to distant waypoints. Especially cross country.

[msy 22]

AI PATHFINDING is not the only problem in zeus it is the overall problem in the game since ARMA1 when the DEV wanted AI to be more sophisticated than OFP (made by bis), and which turned out that AI became too disobeyed and unexpectable. If BIS want to make zeus a little close to good they must learn something from maintream RTS games about how to make an obedient and effective AI.

Edited March 25, 2014 by msy

[iconoclastdx 5]

Actually, I'm beginning to enjoy how the non-RTSy Arma AI works in zeus. At first, I would have agreed with you, but I've come around. Technical hick-ups aside, the problems you site (disobeying/unexpectable behavior) are more a matter of expectation than design. If you expect the AI to perform like a traditional RTS "AI" with mindless plotting and strictly limited decision making then yes, its frustrating, especially microing). Still, I enjoy managing the more robust AI. Its definitely a fresh "RTS" experience. Mostly, I had to learn to step back and manage the battle from with much broader strokes. I had to start taking more nuanced considerations for terrain traversability (not a word), topography, practical cover, effective ranges, target acquisition time, suppression (important) morale (super important), and most of all, general combat craziness. Managing and anticipating the 'craziness' took me a while to get. Basically, you see it when units are trying to make decision when they have too many factors to consider (generally in the middle of a battle) and they tend to get sluggish and less 'RTS'y. People expect that when command your units to go to X that they should get up and go no matter what. Of course, Arma AI doesn't do that in the middle of a battle when each AI is looking for cover, finding target they can effect, maneuvering to engage those targets, trying not to get killed and lastly, deciding if your command is a good idea. In fact, it sort of simulates what probably happens in a "real" firefight (I've never been in a real firefight so don't ask). Everyone just gets bogged-down and effective movement can go down the drain. Thus, managing that from a zeus perspective is intriguing, and I'm kinda liking it. That being said, there still is a fair amount of work that needs to be done with zeus to make it reasonable (like a basic HOLD command, PLEASE. Do I really have to make the driver get out just to keep my slammer from driving halfway across the map?)

[msy 22]

Actually, I'm beginning to enjoy how the non-RTSy Arma AI works in zeus. At first, I would have agreed with you, but I've come around. Technical hick-ups aside, the problems you site (disobeying/unexpectable behavior) are more a matter of expectation than design. If you expect the AI to perform like a traditional RTS "AI" with mindless plotting and strictly limited decision making then yes, its frustrating, especially microing). Still, I enjoy managing the more robust AI. Its definitely a fresh "RTS" experience. Mostly, I had to learn to step back and manage the battle from with much broader strokes. I had to start taking more nuanced considerations for terrain traversability (not a word), topography, practical cover, effective ranges, target acquisition time, suppression (important) morale (super important), and most of all, general combat craziness. Managing and anticipating the 'craziness' took me a while to get. Basically, you see it when units are trying to make decision when they have too many factors to consider (generally in the middle of a battle) and they tend to get sluggish and less 'RTS'y. People expect that when command your units to go to X that they should get up and go no matter what. Of course, Arma AI doesn't do that in the middle of a battle when each AI is looking for cover, finding target they can effect, maneuvering to engage those targets, trying not to get killed and lastly, deciding if your command is a good idea. In fact, it sort of simulates what probably happens in a "real" firefight (I've never been in a real firefight so don't ask). Everyone just gets bogged-down and effective movement can go down the drain. Thus, managing that from a zeus perspective is intriguing, and I'm kinda liking it. That being said, there still is a fair amount of work that needs to be done with zeus to make it reasonable (like a basic HOLD command, PLEASE. Do I really have to make the driver get out just to keep my slammer from driving halfway across the map?)

Only one question: How do you make your AI team retreat when they stick to shoot the targets who are more powerful than them?

Edited March 27, 2014 by msy

[Sneakson 1]

Try spawning some guys at the Stratis gas station and tell them to walk to the airport... they'll walk in a biiig circle around the gas station before going along the obvious, unobstructed road leading there lol...

Zeus really shows a lot of problems with AI walking all over the place, helicopters and aircraft not attacking and even men not doing anything at all when ordered to.

Still, a lot of the time it works well. I like the way the AI leans around corners quite often.

[Westonsammy 1]

Easy fix: Set lots of small waypoints. I do this for all my Zeus missions, and the AI never have much of a problem getting from point A to B by following all the smaller waypoints. you can do this by holding Ctrl while you set waypoints.

For vehicles pathfinding should work fine if you are having them follow roads, if you are having them traverse anything more than a kilometer of offroad terrain, if immersion permits it I would just drag them there...