DirecxtX 12 for ArmA 3?

[linuxmaster9 101]

Please check your sources.. Fury does not fully support dx12..

Inviato dal mio LG-D855 utilizzando Tapatalk

 

True, but: there’s no such thing as “full support†for DX12 on the market today.

Every graphics architecture has unique features, and no one architecture has them all. Some of those unique features are more powerful than others.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-full-support-dx12-today-fury-missing-dx12-features/#ixzz3y4afjniU

 

 

And my point is that in the case of the Fury/Fury X, it has the highest level of DirectX 12 Support. Otherwise, the Direct X 12 support label on the packaging would be considered false advertising. AMD manufactured a card that is Direct X 12 certified. in other words, the only thing limiting the Direct X 12 performance and features is the driver stack. AMD's current cards trump Nvidia's cards for Direct X 12 features since AMD has not abandoned the Asynchronous Compute Units that DX12 makes use of. So, that said, I would be both right and wrong that the Fury X and Fury supports Direct X 12.

[calin_banc 19]

All GCN so far is 12_0 max, like all the nVIDIA, except Maxwell v.2  which is 12_1 (yes, nVIDIA has some extra stuff). Both of them can do what the other can't, but in software and obviously, it's not as fast. How much each matters remains to be seen.

[linuxmaster9 101]

All GCN so far is 12_0 max, like all the nVIDIA, except Maxwell v.2  which is 12_1 (yes, nVIDIA has some extra stuff). Both of them can do what the other can't, but in software and obviously, it's not as fast. How much east matters, remains to be seen.

exactly. Therefor, the only limiting factor is the combination of Driver stack and software utilization.

[batto 17]

Since there is NOT a single 100% DX12 GFX card available out there, and since Vulkan is not released in any sort of form, i really don't get how you can make a comparison, or why do you have such a blind faith in Vulkan without a single piece of evidence.  

 

That's false. Again, it's not something that does the work. It's just an rendering API. You only need the support in the driver. It's known that the Vulkan has the ability to directly issue commands in GPU similar to DX12. There's no point for having faith in or disdain for either as it's quite opposite of something magical. You do need faith in BI making use of it. And there's simply no point in choosing proprietary implementation over standard one of the same thing and close doors to many market areas like Android or SteamOS[1].

 

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/689440925500571648

[linuxmaster9 101]

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/689248999845437441

 

 

Nvidia on what makes Vulkan API Great

 

 

[I give up 152]

 

And what exactly have you been testing? Besides 3dmark test and AoS, both in their infancies, there is no other application for dx12. Just by having DX12 in your system does not do miracles, just as having rocket fuel in the back of my car, doesn't allow me to go many Machs.

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/228880/

Try it mate,

Btw,

• Recommended:
  • OS: 64-bit Windows 10
  • Processor: Intel Core i5 or Equivalent
  • Memory: 16 GB RAM
  • Graphics: 4 GB DirectX 12 (Nvidia GTX 970 or AMD R9 390 Equivalent) Video Card
  • DirectX: Version 12 

I've also played this one:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/393380/

 

Give both a try and say what you think about hardware usage, hardware demand and  cpu/gpu efficiency.

[calin_banc 19]

AoS unfortunately doesn't have a demo. I'm not going to spend a lot of money just to bench it! (not that much into those kind of RTS games). :P

Test it in DX11 medium settings, then DX12 medium settings and see what you're getting (min,avg,max fps) and poste it here please.

 

Not sure if Squad has anything significant in it in regards to DX12 though.

[xon2 102]

As somebody stated earlier in this thread:

 

''We've got this from one of the status updates on Day Z:

 

Quote

 

internally we've been observing outstanding client side performance (frame rate) with the new renderer technology. Paired with the performance increase of the New UI, and iteration upon the inventory and UI skinning - we're *hoping* to see .60 be a hell of an update.

 

''

 

Is it possible to bring these engine improvements to arma 3 as well? Or is DayZ build on something so new/different that this would not be feasible with a reasonable effort?

[PuFu 4591]

I find it funny that you dont think there is any 100% DX12 hardware out there. AMd Fury series for example. It is DX12 and OpenGL 4.5. Oh yeah, a Backer is a paying member of the Khronos Group......I'd call that a partner.

 

AMD did release the SDKs. Also, keep in mind that AMD was short on cash (still is) and could not afford to keep developing an API that was only going to hit half the market. I have such huge faith in Vulkan not because I am blind but because I have used OpenGL before.

I also dont understand where you are getting the whole thing about playing the game not on Windows. I am all for playing on Windows. Just not on Windows 10. I would love to go full Linux but until my library is large enough to change my boot loader to boot to the dedicated Linux SSD first, I will continue on Windows 7 not effin 10 (piece of shit OS).

 

And based on the development demos from Intel, Imagination Tech, and Nvidia, I would have to say that Vulkan is looking sexy. Vulkan is not released to the public as of yet.......but, Devs do have access to it if they are a member of the Group. Example being how Source 2 uses Vulkan and not DX12.....yet Vulkan ain out to the public yet and Valve already has working Source2 engine just waiting for the official release date to roll it out.

 

I personally dont see how you can have such blind faith in DX12 which has not shown any real benefit. DX12 does not have the proof of concept that Vulkan has (Mantle). DX12 is re-written DX11 code for Lowlevel API access. Mantle already handles it. It was also already shown in BF4 to work very well. Given how AMD gave the project to Khronos Group who is known for the OpenSource platform (SDK anyone?) OpenGL, I would have to say that the future of Vulkan is great.

AMD Fury is not a 100% DX12. Use google. It is not related to drivers.

Regarding members for Khronos Group - my bad it seems.

 

I am using OpenGL on a daily basis, most software i use for work (besides 3ds max ) runs on OpenGL (OGL was designed around workstation actually) and i am an avid OSX user. I have not yet switched to win10 mainly because of the security concerns if nothing else, still on win7 until the last minute anyways.

 

AMD pulled the plug before for version 1.0. They released the SDK in the current state and works closely with a few developers (DICE) to get it in some franchises for publicity and as a tech demo.

 

I don't have a blind faith in either (vulkan or dx12). Unless i see the improvements myself (and for that reason i am going to buy the new generation nvidia card, as my 780TI surely is not fully DX12 compatible), i cannot judge either way.

But unlike yourself, who are pushing pages after pages of this thread entitled DX12 (which was the announcement BI made for) with messages of "Vulkan is sooo 1337", i am stating that porting from DX11 to DX12 is about 2-3 month of work. Can you tell me what does it take to port a engine from DX11 to Vulkan? What does it take? (i am talking windows only here). I've tried finding that information, without success. 

 

exactly. Therefor, the only limiting factor is the combination of Driver stack and software utilization.

it is NOT

[PuFu 4591]

As somebody stated earlier in this thread:

 

''We've got this from one of the status updates on Day Z:

 

Quote

''

 

Is it possible to bring these engine improvements to arma 3 as well? Or is DayZ build on something so new/different that this would not be feasible with a reasonable effort?

DayZ is the testbed for (parts) of BI upcoming engine called Enfussion. There is little public information on the subject, but i am certain their next product will be running on this particular engine.

Doubt any of that will be ported towards a finished product. (remember that DayZ is NOT considered final just yet)

[linuxmaster9 101]

DayZ is the testbed for (parts) of BI upcoming engine called Enfussion. There is little public information on the subject, but i am certain their next product will be running on this particular engine.

Doubt any of that will be ported towards a finished product. (remember that DayZ is NOT considered final just yet)

you wont have access to the porting information until the public release unless you want to become a paying member of the Khronos Group. But, the Documentation we do have access to. Mainly Whitepapers indicates that it is easier to port from DX11/12 to Vulkan than from Vulkan to DX12/11.

My faith has a lot of support from leaders like John Carmack for example. I buy AMD cards exclusively. I will be purchasing a Polaris card this summer when they release. I have been rocking a Radeon HD 7970 Ghz for 3-4 years now.

[PuFu 4591]

you wont have access to the porting information until the public release unless you want to become a paying member of the Khronos Group.

So for all intents and purposes, BI, not being part of the Khronos Group, can't plan get their game to Vulkan instead of DX12 even if they wanted to, correct? Apex is suppose to hit Q2 2016...

 

But, the Documentation we do have access to. Mainly Whitepapers indicates that it is easier to port from DX11/12 to Vulkan than from Vulkan to DX12/11.

please give me a link then.

 

My faith has a lot of support from leaders like John Carmack for example. I buy AMD cards exclusively. I will be purchasing a Polaris card this summer when they release. I have been rocking a Radeon HD 7970 Ghz for 3-4 years now.

lol, john Carmack's last real good game was ages ago, but anyways.

I don't buy a brand, i buy the best bang for the buck. I had and still have both amd and nvidia across my 3 PCs and 1 laptop.

Although these days I tend to buy the gfx card with the most cuda cores i can afford due the software i use, which means nvidia

[linuxmaster9 101]

So for all intents and purposes, BI, not being part of the Khronos Group, can't plan get their game to Vulkan instead of DX12 even if they wanted to, correct? Apex is suppose to hit Q2 2016...

 

please give me a link then.

 

lol, john Carmack's last real good game was ages ago, but anyways.

I don't buy a brand, i buy the best bang for the buck. I had and still have both amd and nvidia across my 3 PCs and 1 laptop.

Although these days I tend to buy the gfx card with the most cuda cores i can afford due the software i use, which means nvidia

I dont run CUDA software. I ru OpenCL workloads.

 

https://www.khronos.org/registry/spir-v/papers/WhitePaper.pdf

[heavygunner 179]

On a slight unrelated note:

Arma 3 might get 64 bit support.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/0/458606248620063074/#p5

 

"4. 
64bit is still WIP w/o ETA (not so simple to make it stable on old memory architecture code)"

[I give up 152]

Wish we had DX9 instead of DX11.

DX9 can do everything of what we have with DX11 and with the same quality but with better performance.

I have one game in my Steam that I played a few years ago (Spec Ops - The Line) based on UE3/DX9, the game is not my kind mainly because is third person (the storyline is great), but the graphics are better than most of DX11 based games.

I have no doubts that, for a game like ARMA 3, DX9 would be the best.

[calin_banc 19]

i am stating that porting from DX11 to DX12 is about 2-3 month of work.

 

Yes, but it's not enough if you want to properly use the api to an extent that it's worthwhile in performance terms.

 

 

 

On a slight unrelated note:

Arma 3 might get 64 bit support.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/0/458606248620063074/#p5

 

"4. 

64bit is still WIP w/o ETA (not so simple to make it stable on old memory architecture code)"

 

lol - http://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/0/458606248620063074/#c458606877322824034

 

Dwarden:

 

 

 

1. game developers do nearly nothing in term of support for Crossfire and SLI

(at max they need properly detect GPU memory available as it's not shared)

everything else is left to IHV's drivers ... in future this might be in hands of DX12+ / Vulkan

2.

also Arma 3 is multicore capable with multithreaded code with some parallelization

it's just not enough MT for some nitpickers as for that you need complete rewrite

3. new AO was announced in http://dev.arma3.com/post/sitrep-00138

new ambient occlusion technology HBAO+ (available in the Video Options > AA & PP).

4.

64bit is still WIP w/o ETA (not so simple to make it stable on old memory architecture code)

5.

DX12 is experimented w/o ETA

6.

improved parallax may come next patch or one after

improved lighting may come with expansion

some old shadow techniques will be removed in upcoming patches

[Vasily.B 529]

I would try to put A3 to enfusion and continue to fix engine & game in same time instead of continue this engine support. Something like DevBranch (Enfusion) and 20 people to work on it "on the side". Then if it would get proper status to involve all BI squad of people to work on it, just repleace the engine for stable branch.  Anyone have info what is the current status for Enfusion Engine?

[KeyCat 131]

i understand you want to play A3 on something else but windows...

 

Not really! Even if having that option as well would be a good thing and it would be if using anything but DX12. Having options is always a good thing.

 

Personally I just want to have the option to continue to use my current OS which is Windows 7 and still benefit from any FPS gains and not being force feed Windows 10 that (as for now) have no new features that benefits me nor makes me more productive - on the contrary - since I use my PC for more than gaming.

 

For me there are more con's than pro's with Windows 10 compared to Windows 7 and if I would fall for MS force feeding tactics and "upgrade" to Windows 10 I will just create more work for myself since I would have to reinstall and setup all my programs etc. again as I want them as well as make sure my currently used software (I'm not interested to pay for updates just to make them work with Windows 10) and hardware is fully compatible and working just as good  as they do now in Windows 7.

 

MS knows that a majority of users have no real clue what they are clicking on and most people also thinks that if it's new it must be better which is not necessary true. They have decided to use this tactic to make the Windows 10 stats as high as they can in short time and use the stats as "proof" that Windows 10 is a major hit and the "only" option available since they don't want to Windows 7/8 become the "next" Windows XP!

 

In short.... "if it ain't broken don't fix it"!

 

All of this IMO of course.

 

/KC

[linuxmaster9 101]

Not really! Even if having that option as well would be a good thing and it would be if using anything but DX12. Having options is always a good thing.

 

Personally I just want to have the option to continue to use my current OS which is Windows 7 and still benefit from any FPS gains and not being force feed Windows 10 that (as for now) have no new features that benefits me nor makes me more productive - on the contrary - since I use my PC for more than gaming.

 

For me there are more con's than pro's with Windows 10 compared to Windows 7 and if I would fall for MS force feeding tactics and "upgrade" to Windows 10 I will just create more work for myself since I would have to reinstall and setup all my programs etc. again as I want them as well as make sure my currently used software (I'm not interested to pay for updates just to make them work with Windows 10) and hardware is fully compatible and working just as good  as they do now in Windows 7.

 

MS knows that a majority of users have no real clue what they are clicking on and most people also thinks that if it's new it must be better which is not necessary true. They have decided to use this tactic to make the Windows 10 stats as high as they can in short time and use the stats as "proof" that Windows 10 is a major hit and the "only" option available since they don't want to Windows 7/8 become the "next" Windows XP!

 

In short.... "if it ain't broken don't fix it"!

 

All of this IMO of course.

 

/KC

My point in a nutshell.

 

[Rant]

For some reason people on here seem to think that because I mentioned vulkan benefiting other OSes like Linux for Arma 3 (there is a client you know?), that suddenly, the only reason I would want Vulkan over Dx12 is so I can dump windows when I am perfectly fine with Windows 7 Pro. i don't like being herded like cattle towards something that seems like a raging river of danger to my cow senses. aka windows 10. When Windows 10 was coming out, I and many others in the Tech industry (as that is my professional field, IT/Networking) gave it a nickname: Windows 10: NSA edition. There are some dangerous features such as making it default in Windows 10 to login with an online account tied to Microsoft. How about, NO! I prefer my local accounts that are not tied to the net and backed up to the One Drive. Also how my network passwords are given the option (by default) to share them with people I am friends with....cause I totally want to give my friends the network password to my work site.....yeah cause my Boss would be thrilled if someone hopped on the backbone via a password only we have access to and decided to torrent the hell out of Game of Thrones.  Yeah, no Microshaft. then there is Drive encryption. Why would i encrypt my drive only to give Microsoft my backup keys? Seriously? That defeats the purpose of ENCRYPTING my drives. If Micro$oft (and the NSA) automatically have my decryption keys, I may as well not encrypt my drives with Bitlocker.

 

There are many other things that I can go into that make windows 10 a turn off for me and many others in the IT field but I wont at this time and in this thread. simply put, like the previous poster KeyCat said, I prefer choice. If I can game on Linux with all my games, fine. Otherwise I will continue to dual-boot for my split purposes of both work and play. (work on Linux and play on windows. ) [/Rant]

[KeyCat 131]

On a slight unrelated note:

Arma 3 might get 64 bit support.

 

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Hopefully we will gain a few FPS if they decides to implement it.

 

/KC

 

[PuFu 4591]

Not really! Even if having that option as well would be a good thing and it would be if using anything but DX12. Having options is always a good thing.

 

Personally I just want to have the option to continue to use my current OS which is Windows 7 and still benefit from any FPS gains and not being force feed Windows 10 that (as for now) have no new features that benefits me nor makes me more productive - on the contrary - since I use my PC for more than gaming.

 

For me there are more con's than pro's with Windows 10 compared to Windows 7 and if I would fall for MS force feeding tactics and "upgrade" to Windows 10 I will just create more work for myself since I would have to reinstall and setup all my programs etc. again as I want them as well as make sure my currently used software (I'm not interested to pay for updates just to make them work with Windows 10) and hardware is fully compatible and working just as good  as they do now in Windows 7.

 

MS knows that a majority of users have no real clue what they are clicking on and most people also thinks that if it's new it must be better which is not necessary true. They have decided to use this tactic to make the Windows 10 stats as high as they can in short time and use the stats as "proof" that Windows 10 is a major hit and the "only" option available since they don't want to Windows 7/8 become the "next" Windows XP!

 

In short.... "if it ain't broken don't fix it"!

 

All of this IMO of course.

 

/KC

While i do agree with you on everypoint out there, as i am also on windows 7 with really no desire to upgrade my 3 PCs,  besides needing to reinstall stuff, i am being told during upgrade everything should work just fine, pending it does work on WIN10 btw.

 

On the issue of win10 being forced upon yourself or myself, it is NOT related to DX12 exclusively, otherwise i would upgrade only my gaming PC

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/microsoft-will-not-support-older-windows-versions-on-upcoming-pc-hardware.html

 

My point in a nutshell.

 

[Rant]

For some reason people on here seem to think that because I mentioned vulkan benefiting other OSes like Linux for Arma 3 (there is a client you know?), that suddenly, the only reason I would want Vulkan over Dx12 is so I can dump windows when I am perfectly fine with Windows 7 Pro. i don't like being herded like cattle towards something that seems like a raging river of danger to my cow senses. aka windows 10. When Windows 10 was coming out, I and many others in the Tech industry (as that is my professional field, IT/Networking) gave it a nickname: Windows 10: NSA edition. There are some dangerous features such as making it default in Windows 10 to login with an online account tied to Microsoft. How about, NO! I prefer my local accounts that are not tied to the net and backed up to the One Drive. Also how my network passwords are given the option (by default) to share them with people I am friends with....cause I totally want to give my friends the network password to my work site.....yeah cause my Boss would be thrilled if someone hopped on the backbone via a password only we have access to and decided to torrent the hell out of Game of Thrones.  Yeah, no Microshaft. then there is Drive encryption. Why would i encrypt my drive only to give Microsoft my backup keys? Seriously? That defeats the purpose of ENCRYPTING my drives. If Micro$oft (and the NSA) automatically have my decryption keys, I may as well not encrypt my drives with Bitlocker.

 

There are many other things that I can go into that make windows 10 a turn off for me and many others in the IT field but I wont at this time and in this thread. simply put, like the previous poster KeyCat said, I prefer choice. If I can game on Linux with all my games, fine. Otherwise I will continue to dual-boot for my split purposes of both work and play. (work on Linux and play on windows. ) [/Rant]

there is a client for Linux and OSX, i am well aware of its presence, as well as the fact that it doesn't work as it should with custom content for instance.

The vulkan versus dx12 is a bit moot because of a number of things:

1. the decision is not yours to make

2. it seems that for now dx12 client will not be available with Apex

3. even if BI wanted there is no way they can plan ahead regarding Vulkan since there is too little info about it atm (yes, i read these white papers).

[x3kj 1247]

The way M$ are begging you to upgrade to win10 for free is just disgusting and highly suspicious.THAT's the reason i'm not changing as long as possible. Maybe a dual boot if i really want/need dx12 but i doubt it.

[linuxmaster9 101]

While i do agree with you on everypoint out there, as i am also on windows 7 with really no desire to upgrade my 3 PCs,  besides needing to reinstall stuff, i am being told during upgrade everything should work just fine, pending it does work on WIN10 btw.

 

On the issue of win10 being forced upon yourself or myself, it is NOT related to DX12 exclusively, otherwise i would upgrade only my gaming PC

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/microsoft-will-not-support-older-windows-versions-on-upcoming-pc-hardware.html

 

there is a client for Linux and OSX, i am well aware of its presence, as well as the fact that it doesn't work as it should with custom content for instance.

The vulkan versus dx12 is a bit moot because of a number of things:

1. the decision is not yours to make

2. it seems that for now dx12 client will not be available with Apex

3. even if BI wanted there is no way they can plan ahead regarding Vulkan since there is too little info about it atm (yes, i read these white papers).

i concede your point and am not arguing against it. I am just saying that there are other viable (still to be seen in practice but on whitepaper and tech demos) options besides a platform limiting API that would force users who want any potential (yet to be seen) benefits it may bring to upgrade to the latest version of Windows even if they dont want to.

[I give up 152]

My point in a nutshell.

 

[Rant]

For some reason people on here seem to think that because I mentioned vulkan benefiting other OSes like Linux for Arma 3 (there is a client you know?), that suddenly, the only reason I would want Vulkan over Dx12 is so I can dump windows when I am perfectly fine with Windows 7 Pro. i don't like being herded like cattle towards something that seems like a raging river of danger to my cow senses. aka windows 10. When Windows 10 was coming out, I and many others in the Tech industry (as that is my professional field, IT/Networking) gave it a nickname: Windows 10: NSA edition. There are some dangerous features such as making it default in Windows 10 to login with an online account tied to Microsoft. How about, NO! I prefer my local accounts that are not tied to the net and backed up to the One Drive. Also how my network passwords are given the option (by default) to share them with people I am friends with....cause I totally want to give my friends the network password to my work site.....yeah cause my Boss would be thrilled if someone hopped on the backbone via a password only we have access to and decided to torrent the hell out of Game of Thrones.  Yeah, no Microshaft. then there is Drive encryption. Why would i encrypt my drive only to give Microsoft my backup keys? Seriously? That defeats the purpose of ENCRYPTING my drives. If Micro$oft (and the NSA) automatically have my decryption keys, I may as well not encrypt my drives with Bitlocker.

 

There are many other things that I can go into that make windows 10 a turn off for me and many others in the IT field but I wont at this time and in this thread. simply put, like the previous poster KeyCat said, I prefer choice. If I can game on Linux with all my games, fine. Otherwise I will continue to dual-boot for my split purposes of both work and play. (work on Linux and play on windows. ) [/Rant]

Totally true.

And if we choose to use a local account is the same.

I got strange results with clean install using a local account.

I killed all I could find that could be an automated process.

Updates disabled, defender disabled, all automated tasks disabled such, restore, defrag, clean, shadow copies, search, memory and disk health check, performance, software protection, etc (all these were killed and all the process related, even the hidden ones). All processes related with location (aka cortana), all stopped and killed.

All the automated tasks in task scheduler were removed and the process killed.

Basically all that could be an automated process was killed.

Installed a couple of tools (basically disk and network activity monitoring) and I left the machine alone.

After a couple of days I could find that the hard drive was having periodic activity (sometimes quite intense for CPU and for some time), also the network activity (and traffic usage) in these periods was quite intense.

When I tried to find which process was causing such activity, there was none, clean like a baby sleeping. The same for network activity, there was no traces from to where my machine was being connected.

This is reason enough for not wanting DX12, to me. I am old fashion.

[dwaight 17]

AoS unfortunately doesn't have a demo. I'm not going to spend a lot of money just to bench it! (not that much into those kind of RTS games). :P

Test it in DX11 medium settings, then DX12 medium settings and see what you're getting (min,avg,max fps) and poste it here please.

 

Not sure if Squad has anything significant in it in regards to DX12 though.

DX12 is not good on a engine level yet of squad, aka Unreal engine, as the devs already stated.

The AotS benchmark on the other hand, seems to work great. it is utilizing all of our cores, again something that will never happen with DX11,no matter how optimized the game is.

 

 

 

Dx12/Vulkan is the future,no denying that. it will just be plain faster, and finally uitlizing most of our core's? its actually sad, 6 core / 8 core cpu's barelly getting uitilized in dx11.

Dx12 will change this, but again this will take time.