Ukraine General

[Amra 10]

So let’s summarize a bit:

1. Ukraine is under direct rule from Washington. Ukrainians got promises for 1 billion dollars to support their economy, but no real money yet. And it’s about time to claim that orientation towards US and EU gives them absolutely nothing in short and longer perspective if not to count «leaves without figs».

2. Ukrainian economy destroyed.

3. Police and law enforcement system also destroyed. Instead we see random armed bands with sounding name «National Guard». I highly doubt that even 10% of them have knowledge of laws and general legal education.

4. Ukraine is at state of civil war. Eastern people are already claimed to be «separatists», «terrorists» and wear now all kind of other labels. Armed forces from western Ukraine moves to eastern Ukraine.

5. For idiots and scum of all kind this is Putin’s fault and result of Russia’s imperialist policy.

Cheers.

[Tonci87 163]

Are you seriously calling me, and everyone else who thinks that Putin is a dangerous powerhungry man, an idiot and scum?

[mistyronin 1181]

Are you seriously calling me, and everyone else who thinks that Putin is a dangerous powerhungry man, an idiot and scum?

He just discredits himself and his words. Just ignore him and let the moderators do their work.

[Beagle 684]

Horlivka - The man in fatigues introduces himself as a lieutenant colonel of the Russian army

Its not unusual for a country that uses general conscription that the majority holds a military Rank. In my circle of friends it ranges from "OR-3" to "OF-2". before 1991 they were all "Russians".

[mistyronin 1181]

Its not unusual for a country that uses general conscription that the majority holds a military Rank. In my circle of friends it ranges from "OR-3" to "OF-2". before 1991 they were all "Russians".

To me its interesting the choose of words, I'd have said Soviet Army. But you may be completely right and he mean "Russian" as Soviet Union. I don't know if in Russian language its usual that relation.

And what? Half of the Ukraine is Russian colonels in past.

He gives them a task:

- prevent riots;

- prevent of looting;

- prevent of seizures of buildings.

I'm not judging his other words, just to me its interesting that he said that was a Russian officer.

[maddogx 13]

For idiots and scum of all kind this is Putin’s fault and result of Russia’s imperialist policy.

And this is what gets your posting rights in this thread revoked.

@everyone else, please don't follow this example.

[Beagle 684]

To me its interesting the choose of words, I'd have said Soviet Army. But you may be completely right and he mean "Russian" as Soviet Union. I don't know if in Russian language its usual that relation.

I'm not judging his other words, just to me its interesting that he said that was a Russian officer.

We use to call them all Russians and Russia during the whole cold war, so I did not wonder at that choice of words.

[arttem 1]

To me its interesting the choose of words, I'd have said Soviet Army. But you may be completely right and he mean "Russian" as Soviet Union. I don't know if in Russian language its usual that relation.

No, we don't make any difference in such speeches or dialogs. Just Russian and thats all. Without any: i was colonel in Soviet Union or i was in Russian Federation. Just Russian and thats all. He used that word to police guys because they are pro-russian. Thats why one of them asked him: "Colonel? What colonel? Why we must listen to you?" And he said: "Russian". And problem was solved.

[mistyronin 1181]

We use to call them all Russians and Russia during the whole cold war, so I did not wonder at that choice of words.

Note taken. Thanks for the linguistic clarification ( well both you and ArtTem ).

Ok, so I guess it's the same as when US people call themselves Americans ( when American theoretically means citizen of ANY country in ALL the America continent, north, center and south ).

He used that word to police guys because they are pro-russian. Thats why one of them asked him: "Colonel? What colonel? Why we must listen to you?" And he said: "Russian". And problem was solved.

Make sense. I hope there would be more people there trying to prevent riots, lootings and seizures.

[Tonci87 163]

Make sense. I hope there would be more people there trying to prevent riots, lootings and seizures.

Yes, they are in desperate need of people who are brave enough to step up against any kind of violence.

[mistyronin 1181]

Seems that some good news finally arrived, if that becomes true ( check the link in the quote for the official announcement ).

Ukraine has called for the deployment of UN peacekeepers in the country, according to the presidential website. Interim president Oleksandr Turchynov called for the deployment of United Nations peacekeeping troops in the east of the country, after pro-Russian insurgents occupied buildings in nearly 10 cities.

In a telephone conversation with Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon, Turchynov suggested an "anti-terrorist operation" could be carried out jointly by Ukrainian security forces and U.N. peacekeepers.

Peacekeepers would have to be authorized by the U.N. Security Council, in which Russia holds a veto.

Edited April 14, 2014 by MistyRonin

[akm74 1]

an "anti-terrorist operation" could be carried out jointly by Ukrainian security forces and U.N. peacekeepers.

at least they have scent of humor...

[mistyronin 1181]

at least they have scent of humor...

Why? That has been done before, and up to date it has worked. The whole point is to keep peace. And I'm sure that with UN troops Russian speakers would see all their rights respected, even possibly have a clear and real dremocratic referendum.

In fact IMO that should be extended to Crimea, were the international community has agreed by a huge majority that the "referendum" under the Russian military invasion was not valid.

[akm74 1]

They can call their peoples "Russian-agents", "terrorist ..." or anything they want. If they think it will resolve this problem... well they either incredibly naive or very stupid. And i have feeling it both.

BTW

"even possibly have a clear and real dremocratic "

You can remove higlited in red. They will have referendum befor May 25 (at least thats what i read). So prepare to send observers in...

Edited April 14, 2014 by AKM74

[spooky lynx 73]

That's what is seen at Dnepropetrovsk

[mistyronin 1181]

They can call their peoples "Russian-agents", "terrorist ..." or anything they want. If they think it will resolve this problem... well they either incredibly naive or very stupid. And i have feeling it both.

If they are referring to people that have took weapons and assaulted Police Stations and other official buildings, well, just imagine how would they be called in Russia for instance? ( Let's remember for example Chechnya ).

If they call terrorist to the unarmed peaceful civilians, that's one reason more, why there should be UN troops.

They will have referendum befor May 25 (at least thats what i read).

I haven't read any official statement about that for sure, but if its really done, I'd prefer if UN observators from all over the world keep for the integrity of it, just to make sure that no extremist nor any foreign country can cheat or affect the results.

[spooky lynx 73]

Interesting video

Horlivka - The man in fatigues introduces himself as a lieutenant colonel of the Russian army

According to various sources from self-defence forces it's fake colonel.

If they are referring to people that have took weapons and assaulted Police Stations and other official buildings, well, just imagine how would they be called in Russia for instance? ( Let's remember for example Chechnya ).

If they call terrorist to the unarmed peaceful civilians, that's one reason more, why there should be UN troops.

I haven't read any official statement about that for sure, but if its really done, I'd prefer if UN observators from all over the world keep for the integrity of it, just to make sure that no extremist nor any foreign country can cheat or affect the results.

The irony is that current junta and its Svoboda and Pravy sektor parts widely used assaults of official buildings and both MVD and army arsenals. But now what Svoboda and PS guys did some months earlier is called terrorism:) So they should prosecute themselves at first.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[mistyronin 1181]

According to various sources from self-defence forces it's fake colonel.

Would you mind sharing the sources.

That's what is seen at Dnepropetrovsk

That's curious, because UAVs fly really high ( so high that can't be seen ).

In fact Russia has claimed shooting one down in Crimea last month.

And according to that report:

“The drone was flying at about 12,000 feet and was virtually invisible from the ground. It was possible to break the link with U.S. operators with complex radio-electronic†technology, Moscow-based company Rostec said in a statement.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/14/russia-claims-have-downed-us-drone-over-crimea-reg/#ixzz2ysW11e6z

So it's a bit weird that now they were flying really low, just to be recorded by anyone in that tension situation.

12,000 feet for us Europeans is 3.657 meters.

Edited April 14, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

That's what is seen at Dnepropetrovsk

Please tell me that you don´t actually believe this footage... This is clearly fake, as fake as it can be.

Some people FPDR

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's what is seen at Dnepropetrovsk

That's a flying saucer, isn't it ;)

[mistyronin 1181]

It seems to have been reported by Reuters:

The Russian fighter that overflew the US warship last weekend was an Su-24, or Fencer, that appeared to be unarmed, the Pentagon tells Reuters.

The plane reportedly made 12 passes:

"This provocative and unprofessional Russian action is inconsistent with their national protocols and previous agreements on the professional interaction between our militaries," said Colonel Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman.

Warren said a Russian Su-24 aircraft, or Fencer, made 12 passes at low altitude near the USS Donald Cook, a destroyer that has been in the Black Sea since April 10. It appeared to be unarmed, he said.

At the time the passes took place, Warren said, the U.S. ship was conducting a patrol in international waters in the western Black Sea. It is now in a Romanian port.

If that were to be true, would be an even clearest signal of Russian government intentions.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

European Union leaders could hold a summit next week to adopt new sanctions against Russia, France's Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said on Monday.

"If it is necessary, there could be a meeting of heads of state and government on a European level next week, which might adopt new sanctions," Fabius told reporters on the sidelines of a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg to discuss the Ukraine crisis.

[scrim 1]

Let me get this straight: When Assad everything short of actually nukes his population, and goes so far that even Russia and China agree that he doesn't deserve WMD privileges any longer, and has killed over a hundred thousand civilians, the West are aggressive when they contemplate imposing a no fly zone over parts of Syria after maybe 2 years of civil war.

But when parts of an interim government in Ukraine ponders the possibility of no longer recognizing Russian as an official language, it's so totally proportionate to in less than a month invade and annex the country?

[mistyronin 1181]

But when parts of an interim government in Ukraine ponders the possibility of no longer recognizing Russian as an official language, it's so totally proportionate to in less than a month invade and annex the country?

Scrim if Russia really wanted to protect the rights of the Ukrainians that speak Russian, they first would have tried to push the Ukraine's government with sanctions and try to achieve a diplomatic solution for months.

In the worst of the cases if due to huge amount of violence ( hundreds of dead etc. ) Russia could even force a UN peacekeeping mission, or even in a even worst situation, send unilaterally Russian peacekeeping troops until the situation was solved.

But instead, they did what only the worst dictators have done in the past century ( Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, etc. ); annex a territory.

Putin's goal has nothing to do with Ukrainians that speak Russian rights as his actions clearly show.

But that doesn't mean that there may not be an internal problem in Ukraine about them that must be solved.

Just that Kremlin's media is mixing two very different issues:

- Russian imperialist expansionist policy.

- How Ukrainians that speak Russian fit in Ukraine.

Edited April 14, 2014 by MistyRonin

[akm74 1]

Please tell me that you don´t actually believe this footage... This is clearly fake, as fake as it can be.

Some people FPDR

i'm also think it can be fake (not 100% sure either way). Specially part when it fly behind 2 black pipes on the right.

[Tonci87 163]

i'm also think it can be fake (not 100% sure either way). Specially part when it fly behind 2 black pipes on the right.

You do know that drones usually fly at altittudes where they can´t be seen? This isn´t Arma 3 after all :p