Ukraine General

[purepassion 22]

Here are some interesting insights from a journalist on the ground:

[scrim 1]

Eh, no big fan of Vice. Not since that report about the Brazilian woman with the huge behind (which was pretty much the sole reason for the "report") and the BS they pulled about being in some combat scarred piece of the jungle despite the soldiers they were with training there with BFAs.

Lynx: OK, I see the appeal to human decency didn't work. Big surprise there.

[spooky lynx 73]

There is a huge difference between defend your interests and build and empire invading your neighbors.

Putin's gov wants to build a Greater Russia ( like Hitler with the Great Germany, etc. ) and seems that he is supported by a good amount of population judging by russian comentarist in different websites in the Internet. I'm already tired of reading all the nazi like slogans like 'For a big slavic Russia', that 'Ukraine is Russia', 'rebuild the soviet union', etc.

It is nothing about defending interests, its just a nazi imperialistic strategy.

The problem is that an alternative of building a 'Great Russia' is Moscow principality and transformation from subject of world politics to object. Unfortunately it is so. We aren't surrounded by oceans and have borders with much more than two countries unlike some palladin of democracy. The whole our history shows that lack of will to build empire leads to activity of those who wants to build their own, but at our soil. Weakening of Russian empire led to civil war and intervention by those who now cry about human rights and democracy. Weakening of USSR and Russia led to a number of wars and unrests across the country, economic disasters, attacks on allied regimes.

[purepassion 22]

Eh, no big fan of Vice. Not since that report about the Brazilian woman with the huge behind (which was pretty much the sole reason for the "report") and the BS they pulled about being in some combat scarred piece of the jungle despite the soldiers they were with training there with BFAs.

I'm not a fan of Vice either but that doesn't matter at all since the above videos offer real insight to places and situations most of the big media doesn't even touch upon. :)

[krycek 349]

Regarding financial questions seems that Yanuk regime was not so corrupt as it is spoken at maidan. At least in Crimea.

The one real fact I've learned from the history is that if we won't defence our interests - they won't be defenced and respected by anyone. I understand you prefer to see some kind of Moscowite principality with dimensions of 50x50 km being protectorate of EU or US - so called free world. But I have to upset you - we have other opinion on this. And I've seen myself that so called democracy instituted on the former USSR is nothing like attempt to bury that countries including my own. That democracy resulted in numerous civil and interethnic wars, fall of economies and life levels. And touched my relatives personally - some of them had to flee from Baku, been threatened by Azeri nationalists, some survived attacks of Georgian gossovet army on Abhasia (their house was hit with airstrike, thanks to happy coincidence Georgian pilot missed the window of my relatives and hit nearby flat, empty at that time). If it is that democracy you wish for my country - no thanks, leave it to yourself.

Oh and please don't fill your posts with propaganda stamps. There are not 70-80's now and Mr.Raegan is not president.

I will agree with this if someone will try to take a chunk from Russia territory,right now it is exactly the opposite.The "protect russian citizens abroad" excuse bullshit doesn't fly.Sorry to say but this is exactly the soviet behaviour where if they don't agree with something or someone they just "park" their tanks on that territory and another reason is they also catched their neighbour with guard down and weakened.

I bet Putin would have never went that far with Crimea if Ukraine wouldn't have signed the 1994 treaty.

Oh and tbh I don't even know why they remove their license plates from their military vehicles,maybe only kindergarten kids believe those aren't russian troops.

[spooky lynx 73]

I will agree with this if someone will try to take a chunk from Russia territory,right now it is exactly the opposite.The "protect russian citizens abroad" excuse bullshit doesn't fly.Sorry to say but this is exactly the soviet behaviour where if they don't agree with something or someone they just "park" their tanks on that territory and another reason is they also catched their neighbour with guard down and weakened.

I bet Putin would have never went that far with Crimea if Ukraine wouldn't have signed the 1994 treaty.

Oh and tbh I don't even know why they remove their license plates from their military vehicles,maybe only kindergarten kids believe those aren't russian troops.

To be honest Crimea was delivered to Ukraine with violations of both RSFSR and USSR laws but at that times it was one country so nobody cared much. So formally Russia can claim it back. Moreover Sevastopol was never part of Ukrainian SSR and was left to Ukraine de-facto, Yeltsyn just granted it.

[vilas 473]

2 news from press:

- Polish consulate evacuated, Polish consul (~ambasador) on Crimea Sevastopol were threated to set fire by pro-Russians , Poland left consulate,

- Ukrainian soldiers get ultimatum that they must leave base cause at 8 PM there will be attack and fire opened against them on territory of Crimea

To be honest Crimea was delivered to Ukraine with violations of both RSFSR and USSR laws but at that times it was one country so nobody cared much. So formally Russia can claim it back. Moreover Sevastopol was never part of Ukrainian SSR and was left to Ukraine de-facto, Yeltsyn just granted it.

but it was given as compensation for crimes, so if compensation is taken away, than other compensation must be paid, Germany paid for Hitler, Russia never paid for Stalin

[Colossus 2]

Haven't seen a lot of articles about how the Crimean parliment went to vote on the referendum, but Aftenposten posted one today. (Personally I find this newspaper to be quite serious)

Voting fraud secured pro-Russian majority in Crimean parliament - Aftenposten

[Brisse 78]

Links please? Or is it the same info of 'Russian blocks at Crimea' showing peacekeeper post at Osetia and stolen photo from other site?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26503478

[sudayev 27]

I'm not a fan of Vice either but that doesn't matter at all since the above videos offer real insight to places and situations most of the big media doesn't even touch upon. :)

Really worthy material to watch. Feel sorry for Ukrainians trapped there :/

[Tonci87 163]

Really worthy material to watch. Feel sorry for Ukrainians trapped there :/

Jesus, Serbian Chetniks running checkpoints on the Crimea? They are nothing but human scum, of the very worst kind, even most serbians don´t want to have anything to do with them and those cossacks embrace them with open arms? I bet there are arrest orders for murder against those guys in Bosnia and Croatia.

It seems as if the radical cossaks there are the real problem, not the russian soldiers. Oh and thanks for confirming what everyone already knew: Russian volunteers were fighting for serbia.

[spooky lynx 73]

but it was given as compensation for crimes, so if compensation is taken away, than other compensation must be paid, Germany paid for Hitler, Russia never paid for Stalin

There's no such reason in the laws - 'granting the territory as compensation for crimes'. No matter of the reasons this deal had to be approved by RSFSR council at first. That didn't happen. So even according to former USSR laws Khrushev's order is disputable and could be easily claimed unlawful. Thanks to weak authorities of Russia it hadn't been disputed and situation was left "as is" after USSR collapse, just like with Sevastopol. Then, what crimes are you talking about? Holodomor? Or what? If holodomor than who will pay for hunger in Povolzhye which was no less than at Ukraine? Whose territories should we take as a contribution? Georgian? Explain me please. Or should we take some Latvian territory because of crimes commited by 'Latvian shooters' loyal to Lenin?

[Amra 10]

There's no such reason in the laws - 'granting the territory as compensation for crimes'. No matter of the reasons this deal had to be approved by RSFSR council at first. That didn't happen. So even according to former USSR laws Khrushev's order is disputable and could be easily claimed unlawful. Thanks to weak authorities of Russia it hadn't been disputed and situation was left "as is" after USSR collapse, just like with Sevastopol. Then, what crimes are you talking about? Holodomor? Or what? If holodomor than who will pay for hunger in Povolzhye which was no less than at Ukraine? Whose territories should we take as a contribution? Georgian? Explain me please. Or should we take some Latvian territory because of crimes commited by 'Latvian shooters' loyal to Lenin?

There is still an open question to you Vilas. You want compensations from our country. Money as far as I understand. These money would be taken from my pocket as well. But tell me if you're a victim of Stalin and I am a victim of Stalin, why should I pay to you?

[mistyronin 1181]

There is still an open question to you Vilas. You want compensations from our country. Money as far as I understand. These money would be taken from my pocket as well. But tell me if you're a victim of Stalin and I am a victim of Stalin, why should I pay to you?

That's a good question, I'm not Vilas, but I may have a proper answer. Who was related and benefit the most from that actions?

Maybe the communist elites, that later turn into capitalist oligarchs ( some of those fund Putin ).

Although a good amount of Germans didn't had any involvement in the Third Reich, even a lot of them were victims, but Russians didn't care and took compensations...

[comm_yuri 10]

There's no such reason in the laws - 'granting the territory as compensation for crimes'. No matter of the reasons this deal had to be approved by RSFSR council at first. That didn't happen. So even according to former USSR laws Khrushev's order is disputable and could be easily claimed unlawful. Thanks to weak authorities of Russia it hadn't been disputed and situation was left "as is" after USSR collapse, just like with Sevastopol. Then, what crimes are you talking about? Holodomor? Or what? If holodomor than who will pay for hunger in Povolzhye which was no less than at Ukraine? Whose territories should we take as a contribution? Georgian? Explain me please. Or should we take some Latvian territory because of crimes commited by 'Latvian shooters' loyal to Lenin?

By your logic, Russia should give Sochi back to Georgia and also you can't simply trade other nations as compensation for different losses anyway. What kind of nonsense is this ? your goverment's mentality is trading with nations like a bunch of criminals. Russia wasn't one in the beginning, it developed itself out of different peoples coming from south-east-west and then started claiming all those territories, united and then started occupying other nations. Now because you lost those occupied nations, why the heck should anyone compensate you that "loss" ?? does that make any logical sense ? no it simply doesn't. You actualy know why you are called a "Federation" and not a Republic or simply Russia right ?

Edited March 9, 2014 by Comm_Yuri

[spooky lynx 73]

By your logic, Russia should give Sochi back to Georgia and also you can't simply trade other nations as compensation for different losses anyway. What kind of nonsense is this ? your goverments mentality is trading with nations like a bunch of criminals.

Sochi? Why?

[Tonci87 163]

@Spooky, so you are basically saying that russia has to dominate everyone around it, and has to become an empire, otherwise others will cause harm to russia? Don´t you think that this sounds a little bit imperialistic? Why should your neighbouring countrys not be allowed to choose their fate for themselves?

[comm_yuri 10]

Sochi? Why?

Because it was part of ancient Colchis ( from 13th century BC ), an ancient Georgian kingdom, then part of the Kingdom of Georgia in middle age for like another 800-900 years ( 6th-15th century ). What means, yea, you can say it was part of us for allmost 2000 years. Then it got captured by the Ottomans in the 15th century and finaly captured by Russia in the 18th century. Abkhazians and Georgians ( togheter ) tried to retake that region from the Red Army in 1918 and succeded, only to be backstabbed later by the White Movement which was supporting us against the Reds in the beginning. Crimea ? Crimea was inhabitated by at least a dozen of different cultures or kingdoms ( I can't even remember them all, Romans, Greeks, Byzantinians, Mongols, Seljuks, Khazars, Kipchaks, Ottomans etc etc etc ) from ancient times again up until the 18th century when the Ottomans lost control over it. So please, how much right do you have to claim those territories ? from that standpoint your demands and claims are nothing else but insulting.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Comm_Yuri

[vilas 473]

if Germany payed for crimes of Hitler, why Russians do not uderstand that their country was invading others and made a lot of crimes that never were payed (like force labour in 40s) ?

[spooky lynx 73]

@Spooky, so you are basically saying that russia has to dominate everyone around it, and has to become an empire, otherwise others will cause harm to russia? Don´t you think that this sounds a little bit imperialistic? Why should your neighbouring countrys not be allowed to choose their fate for themselves?

As history shows more or less independent fate was chosen by Finland only. Other states were included into the sphere of influence of countries not so friendly to us. Or became such countries themselves. I would be quite happy if neighbouring countries really be neutral, but let's be honest - they are too weak for it and never were neutral for a long time. So you may call my thoughts imperialistic but for me and my country it's surely better if neighbouring countries will be influenced by us and not by those who compete us or rival. We had already dealt with hundreds of Pz.38(t) and Hetzers.

[Amra 10]

That's a good question, I'm not Vilas, but I may have a proper answer. Who was related and benefit the most from that actions?

Maybe the communist elites, that later turn into capitalist oligarchs ( some of those fund Putin ).

Although a good amount of Germans didn't had any involvement in the Third Reich, even a lot of them were victims, but Russians didn't care and took compensations...

Wow! You already can do that. Arrest everything our oligarchs keep in your countries. Make the soil burn under their feet. And I will say "Thank you".

[sudayev 27]

Jesus, Serbian Chetniks running checkpoints on the Crimea? They are nothing but human scum, of the very worst kind, even most serbians don´t want to have anything to do with them and those cossacks embrace them with open arms? I bet there are arrest orders for murder against those guys in Bosnia and Croatia.

It seems as if the radical cossaks there are the real problem, not the russian soldiers. Oh and thanks for confirming what everyone already knew: Russian volunteers were fighting for serbia.

Yep.

I remember how this whole thing were started. Pro-RUS crowd were saying that people in Crimea were under Ukrainian oppression, in fact nothing happened to them and they lived peacefully for years in coexistence. After watching broadcasts and reports from Crimea, the mob shown there acts like being on someones payroll, really. Also the poor opressed people of Crimea (pro-Rus) accuse their Ukrainian neighbors of fascist sympathies while themselves they act even worse supported by chauvinist cossacks.

Now the Ukrainians are locked in their homes, beaten on the streets by angry mod while the Ukrainian armed forces are surrounded in barracks or on decks of their ships :/

[Amra 10]

if Germany payed for crimes of Hitler, why Russians do not uderstand that their country was invading others and made a lot of crimes that never were payed (like force labour in 40s) ?

Your country invaded mine as well and did a lot of crimes that never were payed. So? Where would we start?

[vilas 473]

lacks in history as i see

after wars from 1640s, when Poland invaded Moscow's Prince, later in 1790s we were invaded

and we were occupied by Russia from 1790s - 1917/8

so seem you not know history, we were occupied for 123 years by Germany and Russia,

when we get independence again in 1918 , than USSR invaded us in 1919/1920 AGAIN cause they wanted us to be another Soviet Republic

what is so different in mentality, that Germans never refused crimes of Hitler, Russians deny any crimes of USSR

[Amra 10]

lacks in history as i see

after wars from 1640s, when Poland invaded Moscow's Prince, later in 1790s we were invaded

and we were occupied by Russia from 1790s - 1917/8

so seem you not know history, we were occupied for 123 years by Germany and Russia,

when we get independence again in 1918 , than USSR invaded us in 1919/1920 AGAIN cause they wanted us to be another Soviet Republic

what is so different in mentality, that Germans never refused crimes of Hitler, Russians deny any crimes of USSR

So I don't get it, do you deny crimes which Poland did in Russia and the fact of occupation? Btw I will remind you your words just in case (#141):

we occupied Russia