Jump to content
batto

Ukraine General

Recommended Posts



Sure, the people of Mariupol will welcome them with pen arms, especially after the separatists gave them a taste of war already with that deadly artillery barrage on civilian areas.


Interesting read

'It Is a Government Crime': The Coffins of Russia's Ghost Soldiers In Ukraine Are Coming Home


"What volunteers? There's no such thing for a soldier under Russian law." In order to take a vacation, a Russian soldier needs to fill out a report to his commander detailing where he'll be during his time off. To leave the country, the process is even more complicated, requiring the permission of his commander, the defense ministry and the FSB. Moreover, Russian criminal law doesn't distinguish between someone who goes abroad to fight for a personal belief and someone who fights for money. In either case, he is considered a mercenary, a crime punishable with jail time.


https://news.vice.com/article/it-is-a-government-crime-the-coffins-of-russias-ghost-soldiers-in-ukraine-are-coming-home?utm_source=vicenewsyoutube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=relatedarticle


Edited by Tonci87

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interview with Russian tank soldier burned in Ukraine (graphic, Russian)

The worst part - this soldier, with no face, no arms, says he doesn't 'mind' Putin. Once again, Russian society shows itself as completely apathetic to what goes on within the country.

so much democracy in Russia today: any soldier can give away all secrets of russian army and not be afraid of any punishment.

BTW Russian logistic is superb: he said tanks are moved to Donbas from Ulan-Ude, it is only 5130 kilometers (straight line), bravo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(Vice News) Dying for the Motherland: Russia's Ghost Army in Ukraine (Part 3)

lM8Zhb0h93k

Is this country now split into a large group of patriots and a tiny group of sane people ?
Edited by ProfTournesol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is disgusting what they are doing to those soldiers and to their families....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

facism in ukrain:

Roman Shukhevych honored as national hero on anniversary

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/roman-shukhevych-honored-as-national-hero-on-anniv-61606.html

content.jpg

Roman Shukhevych - ukranian bloody nationalist participated in killings of civilians

Roman Shukhevych, the UPA commander, stated in his order from 25 February 1944: "In view of the success of the Soviet forces it is necessary to speed up the liquidation of the Poles, they must be totally wiped out, their villages burned ... only the Polish population must be destroyed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In 2007, he was posthumously awarded the title "Hero of Ukraine"

Nothing to do withthe current situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nothing to do withthe current situation.

wow, 2007...

Today (5 march) was a news that ukraine gov. honored Shuhevich with 1 minute of silence and made 14 October a celebration day.

14 october -official date of creation of UPA, Ukranian Nationalist Army which fought on the side of Hitler army against Soviets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wow, 2007...

Today (5 march) was a news that ukraine gov. honored Shuhevich with 1 minute of silence and made 14 October a celebration day.

14 october -official date of creation of UPA, Ukranian Nationalist Army which fought on the side of Hitler army against Soviets.

Source ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another anti-hero. What a shame...

Now, Shuhevich... and Petr Dyachenko to be honored soon as well. Dyachenko just like Shuhevich was a nazi collaborant and has blood of thousands innocent people on his hands. He in well known in Poland just like Shuhevich and Bandera. D. cooperated with Sicherheitsdienst and is responsible on Wola massacre during the Warsaw Uprising and murders in the Kampinos woods.

Sources.

http://espreso.tv/news/2015/03/05/u_radi_khvylynoyu_movchannya_vshanuvaly_pamyat_shukhevycha

http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/184-viii

http://www.rmf24.pl/tylko-w-rmf24/isakowicz-zaleski/blogi/news-ludnosc-warszawy-mordowali-nie-tylko-niemcy,nId,1476428#commentsZoneList

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_Diaczenko

With aforementioned people it will be really hard for Ukraine to build a healthy and fair relationships with the closest neighbours. Polish people will never forget UPA, Bandera and Volhynian slaughter. President Poroshaenko seems to be a fair man with good intentions but he acts weird - here in Poland he says "I'm sorry", while back in Ukraine he glorifies these villains. Stoning two birds with one stone - simply wont work.

Edited by Sudayev

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/putin-na-ukrainie-nie-ma-juz-walk-ani-ofiar-choc-sytuacja-zlozona/8ff7ym

Putin said to Italian prime minister - "there is no fights and victims on Ukraine " according to Putin even single bullet was not shot

about what Sudayev said - yes, Ukraine has some dark pages in history and they should deal with it as Germany did, maybe Ukraine prefers Russian way "we were always only heroes" but this way doesn't work

Edited by vilas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps they can't. Ukraine as an independent nation seems to be still in its infancy, maybe even still struggling to be fully born in fact. Maybe Ukraine, as so young state/nation, desperately seek for corner stones to built fundations of their national identity to build their patriotic pride on it. National heroes. Anything, anyone that could consolidate their nationality. And maybe, sadly for them, and for us, there aren't (yet) many enough such heroes, so they (some of) made that mistake to use for that purpose those UPA butchers. Just a thought, maybe wrong.

Edited by Rydygier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Rydygier, just google the phrase "heroes of Ukraine". Plenty of them and the total number oscillates around 400 people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Entitled such, yes, starting from 1999 though, not much posthumously obviously - seems serious amount of living heroes, like they indeed in need of such a people. Seems natural for young state. And Bandera is one of them. Oh well, as said, just thinking/guessing. Only some Ukrainians could really bring deeper, first-hand knowledge, what they really think about those matters.

Edited by Rydygier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russian opposition leader to publish Nemtsov report alleging Russian troops are in Ukraine

Ilya Yashin says he has evidence acquired by Nemtsov that Russian troops are in Ukraine

Russian opposition politician Ilya Yashin says he will publish documents acquired by murdered opposition leader Boris Nemtsov, who Yashin says had evidence demonstrating that the Russian military is operating in Ukraine. As reported by British newspaper The Times, Nemtsov's complete documents were stored on his computer, which was taken when his home was raided by police following his death, but Yashin says the information is safe.

Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko had claimed following Nemtsov's death in Moscow that the Russian politician was planning to publish documents with evidence of Russian military involvement in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

http://uatoday.tv/geopolitics/russian-opposition-leader-to-publish-nemtsov-report-alleging-russian-troops-are-in-ukraine-413441.html

In the last days the news did report about "Some 12,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine supporting rebels: U.S. commander". Thats even higher than the claims by the media/Ukraine/xxx in late 2014 with around 7000 to 9000 troops, until the Chief of the General Staff did say officially in a statement the ukrainian forces are not fighting against regular troops, but there is proof about russian soldiers doing "special" tasks. Journalists were talking about possible hiding russian troops or did report about seeing only individual russian volunteer fighters. Several times POW exchanges did happen with hundreds of fighters, never read and heard any infos about that russian troops are among them.

Hopefully the papers are showing more hard evidence than the last Vice News report or the alleged plans for an invasion by the Kremlin which at the end could not be varified and the actual source/author was about an russian Oligarch .....it is about time to clear up the fog.

Russian soldiers 'dying in large numbers' in Ukraine - Nato

Nato's deputy chief says Russian leaders are less and less able to conceal the deaths of "large numbers" of Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31747754

Edited by oxmox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
. Only some Ukrainians could really bring deeper, first-hand knowledge, what they really think about those matters.

Worst thing is that many (especially young) Ukrainians don't know who Bandera or Shukhevych really were besides being a "freedom fighters". Knowledge about horrific massacres is silenced and people are only told about the "bright" sides. No one either cares or can't handle truth about cutting people with saws or this. No one also cares for Ukrainian patriots collaborating with Hitler's regime and the SS, either by providing intelligence for them or simply by doing the dirty work for them.

A peculiar type of historical revisionism - this is what's going on and this is dangerous. A veil of silence is being drawn on these shameful facts from the 40's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, hardest thing to see history of the own nation from the proper distance. It's so difficult to come to any agreement with neighbours because it's always clash of two iron subjectivisims. What's crucial thing for some, is marginal for the others and vice versa. Especially if country deliberatelly uses historical engineering to strengthen patriotism. I do not know, if there is any country truly honest toward own past. Some more, others less, some more intentionally than the others, but still all seem to be inevitably biased. How this actually is for my own country, sometimes I wonder.

I wonder, if anyone did such studies: to learn the view on the own history of given country, then compare such a view with all the things, this country's neighbours are teaching their children about it.

My conclusion would be: want to know bright side - ask own historicians. What to know bad things - ask the neighbours. The others knows not enough - too far they are. Want to know the truth itself - you're on your own, and I do not envy you the task ahead.

So, Bandera's et consortes' UPA collaborated with Nazi (but not only with them, AFAIK they was able to make such "tactical alliances" with everybody around, and not always, they fought with them other times aswell), murdered in extremely cruel way (what exactly caused so extreme hatret and cruelty, I ask? Some even want to think, it was disguised NKVD or ex-UPA) so many people etc. One goal to achieve in so wicked way: independent Ukraine. Futile at that time of course.

We had very same goal once, although I never heard, so Poles did any so wrong things to achieve it. Maybe often not wise, but never so wrong. Still, others may tell us another version of our history too. And not all, what we would hear, has to be a lie. If someone dislikes you or even hates, it not always will be due to some hostile propaganda, some part of the truth may be hidden below. Results always has their causes.

For example, probably not many nations around thought very positively about Napoleon Bonaparte. We kept his name in the own national anthem just because we saw in him a lever, that could lift us on the independence... Very narrow and extreme biased view on the much wider truth. Result? We're obviously just another tool in his pocket.

Well, IMO the main problem is such a mistake: confusing, what's actually good with narrowly perceived and wrongly defined particular interest on the own nation/state/country here and now. And hard to point out this not beeing accused of inferiority complex, which is an actual problem by the way, or even of beeing some sorry hostile propaganda believer.

But, its about Ukraine, eh? So I'll end here my mind trip. :)

Edited by Rydygier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before his death, Nemtsov received a phonecall from a group of Russian paratroopers (98th division of VDV, based around the Ivanovskaya Oblast). They claimed - 17 dead paratroopers in their unit, they weren't getting paid (presumably for action in Ukraine) and they were afraid of contacting anyone.

In the picture is a note he left after the alleged phonecall. Plus below a rather humorous attempt at a 'threat' from 'Chechen spetsnaz'.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/avmalgin/6046593/1661983/1661983_original.png (358 kB)

Edited by Sub-Human

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

translation of jpg for non-Russian speaking:

"We are looking for documents which Nemcov was preparing for "Putin and war" , we managed to collect few his notes"

and answer is:

"you better look for place on cemetery"

---------------------

on Ukraine, UPA relations:

when nation is between hammer and anvil - they becoming more and more nationalistic - it is natural,

when Russia hurts Ukraine, west doesn't give a f** (they would prefere to trade with Russia) so Ukrainians feel left and nationalistic voices are louder - so Putin knows it and fuels it to say to Merkel "they are nazis"

it is natural that country surrounded by either attack or lack of help, see around only enemies and traitors (like we in 1939, like we in 1780s)

and Putin knows it and plans that in for example next decade neonazis will be stronger in Ukraine and than he will tell "look, i have told you"

the problem is that people in the west often do not know "second dynamics rule of Newton" - every action has reaction,

when someone is attacked and you see and not help while he is beaten - he hates you too for lack of help

so Merkel and Hollande are only making things worse, for Ukrainians now only Ukrainians are okay cause everyone around left them in troubles,

the same like we were left in 1939, maybe that will help to make Ukrainians think that only friends of them are Poles and Lithuanians cause they had the same problems in past too,

in 1939 we were betrayed, now they are , westernians often see "effect" but they afraid to see "cause", so called "Polish antisemitism" is result that in Stalin administration, in NKVD, UB, MBP (Stalin era politicial law-enforcement) 40% were Jews, almost all high-ranked officers ordering tortures were communist Russians, Jews (of course for communists and marxist "nation" doesn't exist, communism is always multiculti and against Christianity, for anti commies "nation" exists, for us they were Jews and Russians) ,

UPA was result that Poland was ruling those areas for centuries, than Poland ruled this area 1919-1939 and Ukraine didn't had any independence , they were either under Polish rule or Russian rule, never under their own,

so they must use UPA "heroes" to build national unification to fight with Russian imperialism, for us in Poland, UPA = Third Reich SS/Hitler = USSR NKVD/Stalin = crimes against humanity, slaughterhouse

Ukrainians are in difficult situation , cause for them UPA were heroes fighting with Soviet occupant, but if any Ukrainian would tell it to me i would hit him in the face, cause for me UPA are killers of my countrymen and murderes of some people connected with my family (we are from East, our roots are near Wilno/Vilnus and Belarus border where my grandfathers property was lost in 1940, and part of my family roots are from Lwow/Lviv, so we suffered both from Ukrainians, Soviets/Russians, in this whole mess only Belarussians were peacefull nation and there was never single conflict with Belarussians) but father of my cousins fought with UPA and SS in 1945, but for them both the worst enemy was communist ideas and confiscation of property,

the real root of evil is USSR , if Ukraine was not part of USSR or Ukrainian republic in USSR had only Ukrainian-native-national area, there would be no problems with Russian minority (pushed in all USSR areas by Stalin politics of mixing nations) but than of course real native Ukraine would be lower in area (i mean thousands km2), area called Ukraine is artificial place prescribed by commies on map of USSR, not meeting real native areas me thinks, but this is not fault of Ukrainians, it is all effect of USSR and communist decision "this area will be X, this area will be Y, there will be milion Poles, there will be milion Ukrainians, here we put milion Russians, cool, we murder here milion Poles, we murder here milion Tatars, we murder here 3 milions Ukrainians, cool now map looks cool and noone will make riots cause people are mixed and foetus to each other and do not have common goal "

if there is word in US language "trigger-happy moron", than commies and Stalin were "map painting-happy morons"

similar but on smaller scale were Russian Tsars, they were pushing Russians anywhere and sending others to Syberia than as result some regions now have Russian minority, not because they lived there since ages, but because Tsar decided to put them there, than Stalin made the same on 10 times bigger scale, a lot of families suffered because of this mixing people politics, people were returning to Poland till late 50s, till early 60s or even in early 90s from Kazakhstan, many Poles found far far away after 1863 uprising, after 1930s Stalin era, after 1939, usually people have property from their ancestors, my family property was confiscated by USSR and bare naked without anything we were back to Poland in 1958 because of this Marxist multiculti ideas of mixing people on map,

Ukraine was born from Ukrainian Soviet Republic, but Soviet republics were artificial creations of few commies who simply painted lines on map, it was not national reason, moreover, Stalin was first man to force multiculti, he was moving large groups of people living in area, to other area, just to mix people and create "soviet human" and destroy any national , traditional roots,

thats why many Russians are in areas which were not Russian, thats why many other nations suddenly found on areas where they never traveled before, or murdered (example - Crimea, Crimea was Ukrainian/Tatar, than Stalin murdered Tatars, placed there Russians, another example - Poles in Khazakstan ? who before 1939 ever heard word "Kazakstan" here ? noone , but Stalin moved big number of Poles to Kazakstan in middle of Asia, which was tribal Muslim area, after death of Stalin Poles begin to return , my family returned in 1958, thats why i see multiculti as evil - it was introduced by Stalin, it only causes wars like now in East Ukraine, where Russians want to be part of Russia, but artificial borders were created by commies for which word "nation, tradition" was main enemy, Stalin also toyed with German/Polish borders, and moved Poland 200 km to the right side of map,

they wanted to create new kind of homo sapiens - "soviet human" without any tradition, without any roots, just working,

conflict on Ukraine is result , people on the east side of Ukraine feel closer to Russia (lower corruption, better social, higher salaries), they are Russians, they live in areas which their grandfathers never lived or they live in areas where Ukrainian border was painted on map by crazy commies some decades ago,

---------------------------------------

but there is another very important issue in Ukraine which remains silent and not present in any media

Ukrainian oligarchs - extremely rich mafia, what they do ? Ukraine is in deep shit of problems, what Ukrainian Oligarchs do ? they have such huge fortunes, that they could buy Ukrainian soldiers the best equipment in the world and arm Ukrainian army in week , what they do for their nation ? or for them word "nation" is also "odd, outdated" and only important is "bank account in Switzerland" after all they have stolen thanx to Yanukovitch

our vice-prime minister said (he is now criticized for this) "ukrainian elites failed" and "ukrainian economy will fall apart"

Ukraine alone facing costs of hybrid war with Russia will fall for sure, big economical problems connected with being alone will only cause nazism, we must remember that Ukrainians were one of the most poor (poverty) countries in Europe, cost of war for country such poor is demolishing in connection of oligarchy system reminding banana republic (cause Ukrainian stadarts are far from western organized states, Ukraine was ruled by oligarchy, by mafia, which was only stealing from nation on and on and on although they have/had industry (unfortunately located in "rebels" area ))

for many of Ukrainians only nationalism will be something they will be able to identify in future (if future will be hybrid war, being left alone), cause it is hard to identify with state which is third world banana oligarchy structure with one of highest level of corruption in Europe (bribes were something normal during Yanukovich, there were famous scandals like son of policeman raped and burned woman and noone wanted to investigate etc. etc. etcc)

Edited by vilas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dangerous Propaganda from America ? The fog is lifting.......

Exclusive SPIEGEL Report written by Spiegel Staff - March 06, 2015

Berlin Alarmed by Aggressive NATO Stance on Ukraine (SPIEGEL Report - March 06 - only parts of it posted)

US President Obama supports Chancellor Merkel's efforts at finding a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine crisis. But hawks in Washington seem determined to torpedo Berlin's approach. And NATO's top commander in Europe hasn't been helping either.

It was quiet in eastern Ukraine last Wednesday. Indeed, it was another quiet day in an extended stretch of relative calm. The battles between the Ukrainian army and the pro-Russian separatists had largely stopped and heavy weaponry was being withdrawn. The Minsk cease-fire wasn't holding perfectly, but it was holding.

On that same day, General Philip Breedlove, the top NATO commander in Europe, stepped before the press in Washington. Putin, the 59-year-old said, had once again "upped the ante" in eastern Ukraine -- with "well over a thousand combat vehicles, Russian combat forces, some of their most sophisticated air defense, battalions of artillery" having been sent to the Donbass. "What is clear," Breedlove said, "is that right now, it is not getting better. It is getting worse every day."

-->German leaders in Berlin were stunned. They didn't understand what Breedlove was talking about. And it wasn't the first time.

Once again, the German government, supported by intelligence gathered by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany's foreign intelligence agency, did not share the view of NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR).

The pattern has become a familiar one. For months, Breedlove has been commenting on Russian activities in eastern Ukraine, speaking of troop advances on the border, the amassing of munitions and alleged columns of Russian tanks. Over and over again, Breedlove's numbers have been significantly higher than those in the possession of America's NATO allies in Europe. As such, he is playing directly into the hands of the hardliners in the US Congress and in NATO.[/b]

-->The German government is alarmed. Are the Americans trying to thwart European efforts at mediation led by Chancellor Angela Merkel? Sources in the Chancellery have referred to Breedlove's comments as "dangerous propaganda."

The 'Super Hawk'

But Breedlove hasn't been the only source of friction. Europeans have also begun to see others as hindrances in their search for a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine conflict. First and foremost among them is Victoria Nuland, head of European affairs at the US State Department.

She and others would like to see Washington deliver arms to Ukraine and are supported by Congressional Republicans as well as many powerful Democrats.

The general, they say, has the role of the "super hawk," whose role is that of increasing the pressure on America's more reserved trans-Atlantic partners.

A mixture of political argumentation and military propaganda is necessary. But for months now, many in the Chancellery simply shake their heads each time NATO, under Breedlove's leadership, goes public with striking announcements about Russian troop or tank movements.

--> To be sure, neither Berlin's Russia experts nor BND intelligence analysts doubt that Moscow is supporting the pro-Russian separatists. The BND even has proof of such support.

But it is the tone of Breedlove's announcements that makes Berlin uneasy. False claims and exaggerated accounts, warned a top German official during a recent meeting on Ukraine, have put NATO -- and by extension, the entire West -- in danger of losing its credibility.

Much More Cautious

"The German intelligence services generally appraise the threat level much more cautiously than the Americans do,"

At the beginning of the crisis, General Breedlove announced that the Russians had assembled 40,000 troops on the Ukrainian border and warned that an invasion could take place at any moment. The situation, he said, was "incredibly concerning." But intelligence officials from NATO member states had already excluded the possibility of a Russian invasion. They believed that neither the composition nor the equipment of the troops was consistent with an imminent invasion.

The experts contradicted Breedlove's view in almost every respect.

There weren't 40,000 soldiers on the border, they believed, rather there were much less than 30,000 and perhaps even fewer than 20,000. Furthermore, most of the military equipment had not been brought to the border for a possible invasion, but had already been there prior to the beginning of the conflict. Furthermore, there was no evidence of logistical preparation for an invasion, such as a field headquarters.

Breedlove, though, repeatedly made inexact, contradictory or even flat-out inaccurate statements. The fact that NATO has no intelligence agency of its own plays into Breedlove's hands.

Influencing Breedlove

On Nov. 12, during a visit to Sofia, Bulgaria, Breedlove reported that "we have seen columns of Russian equipment -- primarily Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops -- entering into Ukraine." It was, he noted, "the same thing that OSCE is reporting." But the OSCE had only observed military convoys within eastern Ukraine. OSCE observers had said nothing about troops marching in from Russia.

He says that NATO's strategy is to "release clear, accurate and timely information regarding ongoing events." He also wrote that: "As an alliance based on the fundamental values of freedom and democracy, our response to propaganda cannot be more propaganda. It can only be the truth."

The government in Berlin is concerned that Breedlove's statements could harm the West's credibility. The West can't counter Russian propaganda with its own propaganda, "rather it must use arguments that are worthy of a constitutional state."

There are many at NATO headquarters in Brussels who are likewise concerned about Breedlove's statements. Several ambassadors present criticized Breedlove and expressed their incredulity at some of the commander's statements.

Pressure on Obama

German foreign policy experts are united in their view of Breedlove as a hawk. "I would prefer that Breedlove's comments on political questions be intelligent and reserved," says Social Democrat parliamentarian Niels Annen, for example.

--> "Instead, NATO in the past has always announced a new Russian offensive just as, from our point of view, the time had come for cautious optimism."

The pressure on Obama from the Republicans, but also from his own political camp, is intense.

Although President Obama has decided for the time being to give European diplomacy a chance, hawks like Breedlove or Victoria Nuland are doing what they can to pave the way for weapons deliveries. "We can fight against the Europeans, fight against them rhetorically," Nuland said during a private meeting of American officials on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference at the beginning of February.

Nuland Diplomacy

Nuland, who is seen as a possible secretary of state should the Republicans win back the White House in next year's presidential election, is an important voice in US policy concerning Ukraine and Russia.

Mykola Asarov, who was prime minister under toppled Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, recalls that Nuland basically blackmailed Yanukovych in order to prevent greater bloodshed in Kiev during the Maidan protests. "No violence against the protesters or you'll fall," Nuland told him according to Asarov.

She also, he said, threatened tough economic and political sanctions against both Ukraine and the country's leaders. According to Asarov, Nuland said that, were violence used against the protesters on Maidan Square, information about the money he and his cronies had taken out of the country would be made public.

Nuland has also been open -- at least internally -- about her contempt for European weakness and is famous for having said "Fuck the EU" during the initial days of the Ukraine crisis in February of 2014.

When it comes to the goal of delivering weapons to Ukraine, Nuland and Breedlove work hand-in-hand.

On the first day of the Munich Security Conference, the two gathered the US delegation behind closed doors to discuss their strategy for breaking Europe's resistance to arming Ukraine.

Training Troops?

In Berlin, top politicians have always considered a common position vis-a-vis Russia as a necessary prerequisite for success in peace efforts. For the time being, that common front is still holding, but the dispute is a fundamental one -- and hinges on the question of whether diplomacy can be successful without the threat of military action. Additionally, the trans-Atlantic partners also have differing goals.

Whereas the aim of the Franco-German initiative is to stabilize the situation in Ukraine, it is Russia that concerns hawks within the US administration. They want to drive back Moscow's influence in the region and destabilize Putin's power. For them, the dream outcome would be regime change in Moscow.

complete SPIEGEL report in english

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/germany-concerned-about-aggressive-nato-stance-on-ukraine-a-1022193.html#ref=rss

Edited by oxmox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, i see this as a good thing : we finally see a beginning of a European foreign policy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×