Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

on one website i found funny pictures "Russian media show", those picture show for example picture from Russian media there is "large group of Russians protesting" while photo made from distance show several people collected on wide small area, but when phtography is taken from their font, they look like huuuuge crowd,

of course every propaganda make such actions,

That's, more or less, the first example that they explain you in the ethics class in photojournalism.

Basically, if you want the photo to look like if they were a lot of people, you use a tele lens, because it compress the space and it seems like if there were a lot of people together ( same trick they use with the main character in front of a huge explosion in Hollywood ).

If you want it to look empty, take a few steps back and use a wide angle, and even a quite crowded square can look like a desert place ( wide angles exaggerate the distance between objects ).

In the soviet era the Russians did magic with the lightroom, without computers nor Photoshop... Specially the Stalin's photos.

Everyone can use that can of techniques, the main difference, is that in a democracy someone can prove that is wrong, with other photos, and other sources ( that's why in the EU or in USA it's really risky to try to manipulate people ).

While in a autocratic country, all the rest are censored and if someone tries to tell anything they are sent to jail for whatever reason they can imagine.

Its easy to see which countries are more democratic or more autocratic, just looking at the Freedom of press indexs ( you can compare with the Democracy Index ).

[comm_yuri 10]

That's, more or less, the first example that they explain you in the ethics class in photojournalism.

Basically, if you want the photo to look like if they were a lot of people, you use a tele lens, because it compress the space and it seems like if there were a lot of people together ( same trick they use with the main character in front of a huge explosion in Hollywood ).

If you want it to look empty, take a few steps back and use a wide angle, and even a quite crowded square can look like a desert place ( wide angles exaggerate the distance between objects ).

In the soviet era the Russians did magic with the lightroom, without computers nor Photoshop... Specially the Stalin's photos.

Everyone can use that can of techniques, the main difference, is that in a democracy someone can prove that is wrong, with other photos, and other sources ( that's why in the EU or in USA it's really risky to try to manipulate people ).

While in a autocratic country, all the rest are censored and if someone tries to tell anything they are sent to jail for whatever reason they can imagine.

Its easy to see which countries are more democratic or more autocratic, just looking at the Freedom of press indexs ( you can compare with the Democracy Index ).

Sure you got freedom of speech and press but go ahead and express your opinion or say something out loud, the governments, corporations don't want to hear. They will practicaly destroy your entire life, find something to damage your image, destroy your career, life perspectives, family, won't leave you alone. It's just more systematic and effective than in those autocratic countries because people in first place will suspect YOU if the goverment says or does anything against you and not the government. Nobody will question the "evidences", "arguments" on why this man got arrested, charged, jailed, why he died in a police operation etc. No, instead they will turn their backs in fear and in some days totaly forget about it. People are simply frightened, what lead to total desinterest. Former German president Horst Koehler was forced to leave his post because he said out loud the truth, that wars are being fought to secure the trade / resource interests of the powerful nations, basicaly the West. US told the German goverment to get rid of him, otherwise they would unveal any single suspicious activity of individuals in the goverment. What happened ? the quite popular president resigned due to enormous critic and pressure from the goverment. This happens in the high playground. Now imagine what happens to the average citizen.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Comm_Yuri

[Maio 293]

#Simferopol is sorta worth following. Lots of unconfirmed stuff and re-tweets of unconfirmed stuff, but something useful might get posted.

[comm_yuri 10]

#Simferopol is sorta worth following. Lots of unconfirmed stuff and re-tweets of unconfirmed stuff, but something useful might get posted.

They probably stun-naded the depot overwhelming the guards if there were any and seized it. There were reports of confescated weapons some hours ago too. At least no signs of blood shed.

[Maio 293]

Here is a live feed of Simferopol, just a peaceful gathering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmA8cEIqRlA

[Nicholas 5]

Following in the foot steps of the US, both the UK and France have pulled out of the G8 prep talks.

Ukraine crisis: Britain pulls out of G8 preparatory talks - BBC News

The UK has pulled out of preparatory talks for the G8 summit because of Russia's build-up of troops in the Ukrainian region of Crimea.

UK and France pull out of G8 preparatory talks over Ukraine crisis - The Guardian

Britain and France have pulled out of preparatory talks due to be held in the coming days for the G8 summit in Sochi following Russia's decision to take military action in Ukraine.

Australian government summons Russian ambassador to explain actions in Ukraine - Fox News

The Australian government has summoned the Russian ambassador to explain his country's actions in Ukraine.

[akm74 1]

Insane. Is this new EU friends ?

This is interesting reading guys. From Jack Matlock personal blog.

http://jackmatlock.com/2014/03/ukraine-the-price-of-internal-division/#more-629

Edited March 3, 2014 by AKM74

[Amra 10]

Insane. Is this new EU friends ?

This is interesting reading guys. From Jack Matlock personal blog.

http://jackmatlock.com/2014/03/ukraine-the-price-of-internal-division/#more-629

A very interesting article, AKM74. Thanks for sharing!

[vilas 473]

according to our press:

German and France were against NATO communicate that condemns Russia , moreover they disagreed to find article 4 of Nato applicable cause they do not find Lithuania ,Slovakia, Latvia nor Poland to feel danger - which shows story like 1939, when in fact , we cannot rely on anyone and as usually "west" is nice and promissing only when it wants to sell equipment, when equipment is sold and payed, they do not give a damn (we alredy seen such post from one american here, they only care us to die for their cause (oil) when we would be in danger they don't give a fuck,

NATO should rather change name "die for oil for big US corporations, buy US jets, but don't expect anything instead" (thats why many people felt that all our presence in Iraq was nonsense, we didn't get anything instead)

French minister of defence said they will still be selling ships to Russian Navy cause they do not feel danger (as i told before examples of pork busines, when there are money, noone doesn't give a fuck, western chemical companies or banks were cooperating with Hitler too, cause big business and corporations have morality level equal lower than street thug)

also Russia breaks law cause Russian troops surrounded Ukrainian bases on Ukrainian territory, it doesn't matter if it is Crimea, it is Ukrainian administration territory, and foreign troops cannot act there,

truth is that almost all poor countries can rely only on themselves and should do business dealing with everybody equally, not looking at west/east , only looking at their interest, cause lots of people died for US oil interest , but when it comes to troubles west doesn't do anything except "condemnation" (with exception of German and France due to their busines and trade relations with Russia )

Russian press exaggerating role of nazis in new Ukrainian government and Maidan, of course there is few percent nazis, but few percent, not 90%,

and expecting that nazis will not appear in situation when other country pushes Ukraine is insane, it is natural , that when other country pushes other country than it brings nationalism, as i told this many times here, it is natural, when people/army/companies from abroad pushes person from local nation/army/companies, than it makes nationalism arise,

Russian rhetoric is not logical, cause their defense of Russian language on territory of other country is not nationalistic ?

sorry, demanding and forcing by power that in other country Russian language will be used as official language is not nationalism ? and they accuse Ukrainians of nationalism ?

the same way we can say that British citizens should learn and use Polish language (a lot of Poles in London) as their co-official language or Brits are nazis if they still want to keep English language,

this is this kind of rhetoric,

Ukrainian territory is Ukrainian territory, if government changed after Maidan , than Russia should do such things about their minority WITHOUT USING TROOPS, but using diplomacy, economy, business, talks , not army,

using army on other territory is aggression, cause it is not diplomatic act, it is intervention of Army to another country territory,

and when someone accuses Ukrainians of nationalism than why the hell he acts like nationalists themselves (this language case), noone was murdering Russians n this territory, but Russian army invaded territory of other country (without so far judging territorial changes after WW2, cause of course 1/3 of Ukraine was Polish territory in 1939 , in 1500s-1780s, half of Ukraine was Polish territory, but WW2 changed borders of countries and USSR (Stalin) took 1/2 of Polish territory and gave us German lands instead ), but as civilised world accepts international agreements, than borderlines also are accepted,

Russian pression and lack of West reaction will only cause that more nazis will appear (cause Ukrainians will feel lost by international community and it will unite them very very much) if instead of 5% nazis there will be 50% nazis - you can only thanx Puting, Merkel and French president (selling war ships to Russian navy, info according to our mainstream media)

also internet guys made some investigations about informations written on Polish internet about Banderas, they were checking IP, IP shown posts written from ... Belarus, Russia, so maybe Russian GRU sits and posts on Polish forums "they all are nazis, they all are Banderas"

Edited March 3, 2014 by vilas

[lao fei mao 21]

The current situation of Ukraine reminds me of the storyline of ArmA1. And we, china always support Russian friends decision. And all the SCO member countries will definitely Russia's action.

We hate US and NATO impose their democracy on other independent countries.

[vilas 473]

The current situation of Ukraine reminds me of the storyline of ArmA1. And we, china always support Russian friends decision. And all the SCO member countries will definitely Russia's action.

We hate US and NATO impose their democracy on other independent countries.

absolutely doesn't remind Arma1,

Ukaine people dethroned their corrputed president and Russia intervention happens

it is opposite situation

Ukraine wants help , Ukraine doesn't get help

so situation is opposite and you should read more sources, if you say about independent countries than Ukraine is independent country, in which internal problems Russia sticks finger, so you rather read wrong information in China if you read that USA "spread" democracy in Ukraine, than you should change information source,

if Chinese press wrote that USA intervene in Ukraina - than Chinese press LIES,

it is Russia, not USA, that invaded territory of Ukraine

Ukrainian people didn't want their previous gov. and in REAL democracy people have right to change gov. when they are not satisfied

Edited March 3, 2014 by vilas

[Amra 10]

absolutely doesn't remind Arma1,

Ukaine people dethroned their corrputed president and Russia intervention happens

it is opposite situation

Ukraine wants help , Ukraine doesn't get help

so situation is opposite and you should read more sources, if you say about independent countries than Ukraine is independent country, in which internal problems Russia sticks finger, so you rather read wrong information in China if you read that USA "spread" democracy in Ukraine, than you should change information source,

if Chinese press wrote that USA intervene in Ukraina - than Chinese press LIES,

it is Russia, not USA, that invaded territory of Ukraine

Ukrainian people didn't want their previous gov. and in REAL democracy people have right to change gov. when they are not satisfied

Yeah, Americans stayed absolutely away from Ukraine until Russians invasion.

Continue to wear your pink glasses.

[sudayev 27]

absolutely doesn't remind Arma1,

Ukaine people dethroned their corrputed president and Russia intervention happens

it is opposite situation

Ukraine wants help , Ukraine doesn't get help

so situation is opposite and you should read more sources, if you say about independent countries than Ukraine is independent country, in which internal problems Russia sticks finger, so you rather read wrong information in China if you read that USA "spread" democracy in Ukraine, than you should change information source,

if Chinese press wrote that USA intervene in Ukraina - than Chinese press LIES,

it is Russia, not USA, that invaded territory of Ukraine

Ukrainian people didn't want their previous gov. and in REAL democracy people have right to change gov. when they are not satisfied

Despite arguments used you can't change that vilas, they were TOLD that it was evil west. They have no alternative information since everything is strictly censored and only regime information is allowed. It's pretty pointless discussing with such people.

I learned that after discussing with one russian lieutenant, I had to cease the conversation due to overload of absurdity coming from his side and add his email address to spam folder.

[vilas 473]

Maidan were people who hate corruption of their government, not all CIA agents,

just like in our country we hate corruption and if we will make our Maidan, it will be made by us, not by CIA,

people seen corruption, palaces, wealth of Yanuk (as previously Timoshenko), people in Ukraine do not trust any politician (like in Poland i do not trust ANY mainstream party cause ALL are corrupted, both ruling party members and opposition party members break rules, give away because of immunity(most not democratic regulation, that member of parliament has immunity and he is above the law, he can drive 200 km/h on red light and police cannot stop him) , all parliament parties members just think about salary)

so Ukrainian people distrust to all politicians, and thats why Maidan connected together several very different parties,

when it comes to defend freedom in internet (ACTA) in Poland in demonstrations you had together walking skinheads, punks, metals, usual people, footbal hooligans, right wing, church, left wing, communists, socialists, nationalists - everyone was defending freedom , not one party, when politicians appeared on ACTA demonstration, all people told them to fuck off and go away and politicians from different parties had to run away from anti ACTA demonstrations, i mylself was there seeing punks walking along with priest and skinheads walking along with rasta or metalheads, people who would attack each other were walking one by one along together, so the same with Maidan, people do not trust neither Timoshenko, nor Klichko, thats why they are so desperated, to find single honest politician is very hard job,

when it comes to defending against corruption, poverty, unemployment or other nation attacking - people connect, no matter right wing or left wing, catholic or atheist, maybe even Muslims would walk along Catholics if there was danger from other nation or such enormous third world corruption like in Ukraine,

- i watched this video - typical dirty "behind the scene" stuff, usual in all conflicts,

probably when Poland was fighting with communism in 1980, Soviet leaders were discussing "we cannot allow to loose strategic position" and US leaders were speaking "when their economy will fall, what we can sell there"

when in 1989 communism fallen than Soviet guys were talking "we must set our agents there so our interests will be secured, look who has grandfathers in stalin administration and set those guys with full support including killing opponents" and US , German, British intel guys were talking "okay, so how to buy all their industry for 1 dollar, who need bribes and how big this bribe should be , is 10000 dollars is enough for them , than we can destroy competitive companies in few months and our market will produce more, where we can place our agents because they might stood against loosing their economy",

noone cared about our freedom, wealth, life condition, noone, both sides cared how to cheat us , the same with Ukraine

thats why i was writing in previous posts, that only country which will loose economically will be my country on this Ukrainian issue

Edited March 3, 2014 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

Despite arguments used you can't change that vilas, they were TOLD that it was evil west. They have no alternative information since everything is strictly censored and only regime information is allowed. It's pretty pointless discussing with such people.

I learned that after discussing with one russian lieutenant, I had to cease the conversation due to overload of absurdity coming from his side and add his email address to spam folder.

Well in my experience with my Russian friends, that's not completly true.

I mean, it seems to me that in Russia there is a heavy manipulation of the media, and anyone that does anything out of the ProPutin mainstream recieve some scolding. But, some Russians are still enough open minded to realize that not all what they are told is true; and after doing some pedagogy ( specially if they have livedabroad ) they understand that in West countries people doesn't hate Russia at all and that Putin regime is trying to take advantage or people's feelings for their own sake.

In fact that kind of ideas are pretty hilarious as they come as tourists and even some retire in my homecountry, where they are welcome.

[Rydygier 1302]

Despite arguments used you can't change that vilas, they were TOLD that it was evil west. They have no alternative information since everything is strictly censored and only regime information is allowed. It's pretty pointless discussing with such people.

I learned that after discussing with one russian lieutenant, I had to cease the conversation due to overload of absurdity coming from his side and add his email address to spam folder.

Yes, and this is real tragedy. There is some mechanism common to all people, I called worldview inertia. All build their worldview basing on some assumptions, accepted a priori (unavoidavble), acquired at home, in the course of education and soaking message coming from the surroundings. The more and the longer is built on such foundations, the more choices was made basing on it, the more reluctant person is to change it. Furthermore - positions where the man entrenched his worldview defines in form of logical consequences (by inference) narration, to which will be matched interpretation of the observed facts (and this way same fact for two people may confirm two mutually contradictory views). Easier to match facts interpretation to the worldview, than worldview to the facts. That's it is so tragic, when someone has own worldview based on a lies. This distorts whole perception of the reality. And is nearly immovable. There is needed real "earthquake" in someone's life to to crush this concrete shell. Any talking on forum or e-mail is usually futile. Best, you can achieve that way is reconciliation "protocol of disagreement" on assumptions level, but this also is very rare achievement.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Rydygier

[Nicholas 5]

I've been waiting to hear what China thought of this.

Russia And China 'In Agreement' Over Ukraine - Sky News

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov discussed Ukraine by telephone with his Chinese counterpart, Wang Yi, on Monday, and claimed they had "broadly coinciding points of view" on the situation there, according to a ministry statement.

[mistyronin 1181]

Russia has said China is largely "in agreement" over the situation in Ukraine after the other G8 nations condemned its intrusion into the country.

It starts by Russia has said... I would wait until some Chinese officials talk directly.

[Nicholas 5]

It starts by Russia has said... I would wait until some Chinese officials talk directly.

Yes, I was just thinking that. I found another link with a different response.

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Qin Gang's Remarks on the Current Situation in Ukraine - Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China

Q: On 1 March, the Russian Federation Council authorized Russian President Vladimir Putin to use armed forces in order to protect Russians and Russian military officers and soldiers in Ukraine. What is China's comment on the current situation in Ukraine?

A: China is deeply concerned about the current situation in Ukraine. We condemn the recent extreme and violent acts there and have been urging the relevant parties in Ukraine to resolve their internal disputes peacefully within the legal framework so as to safeguard the lawful rights and interests of all ethnic communities in Ukraine and restore normal social order at an early date.

It is China's long-standing position not to interfere in others' internal affairs. We respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. There are reasons for why the situation in Ukraine is what it is today. China will follow the development of the situation closely and call on relevant parties to seek a political resolution of their differences through dialogue and negotiation based on respect for international law and norms governing international relations in order to uphold regional peace and stability.

[vilas 473]

I mean, it seems to me that in Russia there is a heavy manipulation of the media,

in all countries ;)

- in USA some media told about Polish death camps during WW2 that Poles murdered Jews in death camps, not Germans, even on this forum 2 years ago i heard guys from abroad who were sure (from their shools) that Aushwitz was led by Poles cause it was on territory of Poland ,

- in Russia they were told that Stalin not commited any crimes during WW2 and was only defender of other nations,

- Japan still denies crimes on Korean people,

- Germany still deny genocide in 1904 in Africa (last time there was TV broadcast about one African nation who was murdered in ca. 1904 by Germany)

- Iraqi and "weapons of mass destruction",

- Serbs and Kosovo, when Muslims killed Serbs, western press in 90s shown... that those are Muslims killed by Serbs, so Mulsims killed Serbs and Muslims killed BY Serbs - one word "by" change whole sentence, and whole West was than sure that Serbs are murderers and Kosovo Muslims are victims,

- our media manipulate and say that Poland is:

- rich country where there is no unemployment,

- emigration is just small number of people without any education that are too dumb to find job here (in UK they work for example in IT, engineering, AutoCad, half of people who graduate university leave country , like medic univeristy)

- there is no corruption and our law is too harsh, while our law is soft,

- that on Ukraine there are no nazis at all, even 0.00001% not at all, Bandera ? what Bandera, first time hear, they fight cause the want to join EU asap and we need them to work, cause we have a plenty of jobs and our businesnmen need new workers but Poles are too lazy to work and demand too much salary,

- that Iran is only country which breaks human right (and Saudi Arabia is example of tolerance and democracy)

- that in Syria there are poor people vs. bad dictator,

- that we should trust banks and take more loans,

- that we must work harder cause we are lazy and without hard work we should not expect more money,

- that on the west there is big poverty and unemployment, Spain is like Greece, 30% unemployment, people without food and Poland is rich and developing,

etc. etc. etc.

so brainwashing works everywhere, if you would take informations from Polish mainstream than i earn twice more than i earn ;)

In fact that kind of ideas are pretty hilarious as they come as tourists and even some retire in my homecountry, where they are welcome.

hehehehehehehe

sounds like here, emigrants write from London on Polish forums "woow, we work half year, we can afford good clothes, we already bough 10 years old car, while in Poland we had no money for 20 years old car, we have our own room, we decided to have a child, come to us, leave Poland"

the same time Polish press "in UK there is no jobs, in Spain people live in unemployment and in Greece there is hunger and poverty" , later guy writes from Spain "i earn 1500 Euro working 10 hours, when i was in Poland they proposed me jobs for 300 euro working 12 hours, finally i am free and i bought newest DSLR"

i am moderator on one photography forum, half or more than half of people with good DLSR (Canon 6D, Canon 5Dmk3, Nikon D3, Nikon D700) are abroad and they write "i just bought Canon IS USM 70-200 2.8 lens" for us it is "sooooooooooooo expensive" that Poles ask "does Tamron 70-300 5.6 will give me good image, cause i cannot afford anything more expensive than 150 Euro per telephoto lens",

people who emigrated ask "what camera to choose, Canon 5DmkIII or Nikon D3 for my hobby" while here they ask "i want second hand Canon 500D, or is it really worthy to give more money to buy 550D or Nikon D90?"

so propaganda is everywhere, maybe not in Skandinavia and Switzerland - those regiosn are most civilised, you live in Skandinavia,

i heard a joke about Skandinavia that there was guy in Finland travelling in 80s and he was shocked by 2 things:

- minister was travelling normally like usual men in public transport and he had no armored limousine with 4 bodyguards,

- when man caused accident he reported himself to police because he was so honest,

Russians are brainwashed by media of course, but our press makes the same too, according to Ukrainian press probably US forces almost heading to support them and Poland want to finance this all

according to Russian nationalists like Zyrinovski probably half of Maidan were CIA agents and another half Polish agents

all of the same blood

Edited March 3, 2014 by vilas

[krzychuzokecia 700]

German and France were against NATO communicate that condemns Russia , moreover they disagreed to find article 4 of Nato applicable cause they do not find Lithuania ,Slovakia, Latvia nor Poland to feel danger

Well, maybe they (Ger. and Fra.) were right? Because since yesterday's evening all I can hear from our Prime Minister and President is "there's no threat to Poland"... If there's no threat, then NATO acting in the wake of Article 4. is both nonsense and illegal.

This only shows how much current Polish gov't is dependent on Germany's will. Remember when EU slapped Ukraine, which led Yanukovych to not to sign an agreement? Our Foreign Affairs Ministrer only jokingly said "nobody want's to pay Yanukovych debts", when EU stance was criticized by opposition in Poland. He was repeating what he was told by "the west", but this thinking was wrong. Now, he's making the same mistake. No lesson learned in minds of cynical European leaders.

At least no signs of blood shed.

Yesterday there was small firefight at Simferopol between "Russian self-defence"* and "masked terrorists". However photos showed that "terrorists" (in Russian media named "Ukrainian fascists" etc.) were armed with GM-94 grenade launchers (3-shot pump-type like China Lake), which is used by internal troops of Russia and is said to have been never exported.

*"Russian self-defence" is also kind of a farce - they're equipped better than most of the Russian military units, including VDV. Just look at their stuff: PKP Pecheneg MGs, SVD-S and VSS rifles, AK-74Ms with all the Zenitco stuff one could buy (Zenitco - Russian manufacture of AK accessories, pricey and unfortunately unavailable in non-Russian markets), and sophisticated optical sights (including original EOTechs and Aimpoints). You can buy really good stuff in Ukrainian gun shops, but not like that.

[sudayev 27]

*"Russian self-defence" is also kind of a farce - they're equipped better than most of the Russian military units, including VDV. Just look at their stuff: PKP Pecheneg MGs, SVD-S and VSS rifles, AK-74Ms with all the Zenitco stuff one could buy (Zenitco - Russian manufacture of AK accessories, pricey and unfortunately unavailable in non-Russian markets), and sophisticated optical sights (including original EOTechs and Aimpoints). You can buy really good stuff in Ukrainian gun shops, but not like that.

It's obvious this action is part of their famous - "muscle flexing", show-off by best equipped forces in the country (because everyone expected red faced boots dressed in flora uniforms with steel helmets). It's already costing them a lot, look at the russian stock market indexes and rubel - all going down.

[vilas 473]

For Ukrainian friends here reading about Poland is best lesson to learn, they see their future reading our present history. So although western people might be bored, Ukrainian readers may have a good lesson.

As i said before - we are colony in meaning of economy so our "ministers" say whatever Merkel wants them to say. They conflicted Poland with Russia, on this conflict Polish farmers cannot sell pork, the same time Germany refuse to sign condemnation and German farmer sell pork. German earn money, Pole lost money again (first our machine industry was destroyed, than now farm industry has problems). Is our gov. not an agents of foreign corporations ? all they achieved so far is Russia not buying our products but buying German or French. As result more and more Poles would not have jobs and would be forced to be another emigrants, cheap labor (of course causing surprise for Brits "goodness again more and more of them and i still cannot get a bloody job")

so far also Russians here see this trick (but not those on Kremlin) , cause they are told "Poland enemy, rest of west not react" , this is all dirty financial game, which some will call "conspiracy theory"

It's obvious this action is part of their famous - "muscle flexing", show-off by best equipped forces in the country

of course in such case army pushes the newest equipment they have, it is called first line unit, our guys in A-stan had equipment about which guys from territorial defence could only dream,

only richest countries change all gear in short time, majority of countries first equip first line, than when first line gets new eq. this previous-first line eq. goes to second line etc.

even in Germany soldiers presented by addons of BW mod were in fact presenting only first line 10% of units,

even in addonmaking it is visible, when i made my Polish army mod in 2008 reaction of players was "why the hell they are so outdated" and they were showing me KFOR, ISAF units equipment as if it was regular equipment

those "uknown" soldiers in Crimea are Russian fast-reaction units

Edited March 3, 2014 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

@vilas well the Muslims in Bosnia didn´t run concentration camps, didn´t murder whole cities (think of Srebrenica) and didn´t aim to create an empire...so I guess the West media didn´t lie there. The russian media on the other hand was in support of the serbs, because russia has always been supporting them.

[vilas 473]

@vilas well the Muslims in Bosnia didn´t run concentration camps, didn´t murder whole cities (think of Srebrenica) and didn´t aim to create an empire...so I guess the West media didn´t lie there. The russian media on the other hand was in support of the serbs, because russia has always been supporting them.

but they were also active in war, i rememeber one article which after 10 years was showing that "muslims killed by serbs" were in real "serbs killed by muslims" , also west was not saying even a word about Albanian-Kosovo mafia and such things,

all sides of conflict were active and all sides were brutal, and i was not reffering to Bosnia but to this region near Albania, Kosovo , in 1996 if i recall correctly , there were photos of one massacre in western press, later , few years latter it was cleared,that on this photo there were Serbs dead, not Albanians dead, but this photo was used in press as to show dead Albanian Kosovo Muslims, while corpses were of Serbs, people there fight with each other for 700 years since Ottoman empire first stroke (Jihad )

----

btw about media braiwash: titles in our press since 2 days "world at the edge of III world war",

politicians are sooooo happy, noone says about economy

---

another reports about Russian forces which surround Ukrainian bases < it is breaking international law

Turkey reacts and says that Tatars are their brothers in danger

Berkut policemen getting Russian citizenship

Edited March 3, 2014 by vilas