Ukraine General

[oxmox 73]

A dirty war is beeing waged against a free press in Ukraine (Newsweek, Sept. 12)

 

A string of violent incidents against journalists and press outlets has rocked Kiev.

.....

Ukraine has spent much of the past quarter century under oligarchic thug rule, in which free and objective journalism was often seen as a nuisance to be controlled and manipulated—and sometimes a threat worth eliminating—by those in power.

 

And this summer, more than two years after Ukrainians took to the streets to overthrow the regime of former pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych, a string of violent incidents against journalists and media outlets has rocked Ukraine’s capital.

 

Journalists are caught in the crossfire of those wishing to control the country (both in Kiev and in Moscow), as well as targets of simmering anti-Russian sentiments due to the ongoing war in the east.

Journalists of all leanings have been targeted this summer, including government corruption watchdogs and those accused of maintaining a pro-Russian bias.

....

 

more..

http://europe.newsweek.com/dirty-war-being-waged-against-free-press-ukraine-496648?rm=eu

[danil-ch 165]

Police is on vacation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPAME57OQBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVfqQrEYY2o

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

So then.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/world/europe/ukraine-russia-emails.html?_r=0

 

As it turns out, Ukrainian hackers saw how effective and vulerable emails were, so they learned and it turns out that it pays off to go after emails. Russian officials apparently acknowledge the emails are legit, while now, this brings to light the already know fact that Pro-Russian separatists are backed by... Russia...

 

Things aren't looking good. Looks like it's time to run to a Neutral country in the middle of nowhere.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

edit

[Sanya 97]

[vilas 473]

I wonder what changes will it bring to Polish-Ukrainian relations, especially concerning current Ukrainian state policy of OUN-UPA and SS Galicina glorification.

 

it is not easy issue, because opinions are almost divided in half , 

half of society believes we should absolutely not help Ukraine due to WW2

another half of society say "we were opressed by Russia before 1918, USSR till 1989 so enemy of our enemy..." as society due to historical reasons those people do not look at Ukraine like "friend" we look like "enemy of our enemy" (but such point of view blinds people ) - similar to Czechs for example (1968 but also Ukrainians never hurt them etc)

so it is complicated issue - all WW2 crimes in those regions (lets not go into WW2 issues again)

 

but generally our elites (business, politics, journalists in mainstream media) are under strong influence of USA , so despite society doesn't agree - elites from all important political parties - do the same and follow US way of seeing Russian/Ukrainian conflict

 

as for me i do not speak cause i am rather seeing it neither from 1 nor from 2nd side, i see it from third side - "NWO" makes problems across the globe, corruption , oligarchy and Ukraine acting like fallen state - last Ukrainian news are schocking:

- 24 years old "girl" being minister ? schocking, how such high rank can be given to such young person ! 24 years is age at which you graduate from university and get MSc or MoA title (8 years of primary school, 4 years of college or 5 years if it is technical college "technician school", 5 years of university makes 24/25 y.o.), how the f*** someone can be minister - while employers and companies see 24 years old people as too young and not experienced to get other job than assistant , junior assistant and in Ukraine you can be Vice Minister ,

- many of corrupted politicians from Poland - who were type recorded in huge wiretapping scandal in 2015, who could face charges under new government for their offences - now they are in Ukraine ruling several departments , people who are investigated or accused of corruption/bribery, now found themselves in Ukraine and rule there as directors or experts - which proves that some "elites" became "international" once they started betraying their countries for corporations (due to this there is actual joke in Poland "sending those politicians to Ukraine ? revenge for Volyn massacre" http://images5.bibsy.pl/mRd7wzmU/slawomir-nowak-zostal-szefem-panstwowej-agencji-drog-ukrainy-brzmi-jak-zemsta-za-wolyn.jpeg  + meme 2 http://isakowicz.pl/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/bdc7d0f30e0c420b2ac279d6a1c096e4_XL.jpg "sending Balcerowicz to Ukraine ? wrong, church says to forgive and remember, not to avenge" - person on photo is not Balcerowicz but journalist who joke from situation , Balcerowicz, Belka, Nowak etc - people who here are symbols of destroying our industry, corruption, shade banking , shade laws )

 

Ukraine not much changed since Maidan - people protested against corruption and oligarchs - people still have corruption and oligarchs + some warzone destruction + some international corrupted politicians imported from my country and afaik also from Georgia , Ukraine still suffers from lack of heroes - only heroes they have are WW2 nazis cause in fact it is first time they really have state and so far this state is reminding oligarchy ruled corrupted African state  :/ they would need at least  2 generations to build really own state , but in modern era of globalization such things like building own independent state in Europe can be hard 

[spooky lynx 73]

last Ukrainian news are schocking:

- 24 years old "girl" being minister ? schocking, how such high rank can be given to such young person !

It's okay, no worries, she's just a vice minister:) 

 

Ukraine not much changed since Maidan - people protested against corruption and oligarchs - people still have corruption and oligarchs + some warzone destruction + some international corrupted politicians imported from my country and afaik also from Georgia ,

And what would you expect from protests funded and organized by oligarchs? One oligarchs (strictly pro-US) toppled others (neutral). Nothing else.

they would need at least  2 generations to build really own state , but in modern era of globalization such things like building own independent state in Europe can be hard

You see, the main problem is that the whole concept of Ukraine as an independent state is based on the "anti-Russia" idea. At least in its current forms. So you can't build anything good on this base. Recent 25 years of independence perfectly show it. Ukraine quickly transformed from one of the wealthiest ex-USSR republics with rich industry able to produce even aircraft carriers into some kind of third world failed state.

[vilas 473]

it is not like that:

Quote

You see, the main problem is that the whole concept of Ukraine as an independent state is based on the "anti-Russia" idea. At least in its current forms. So you can't build anything good on this base. Recent 25 years of independence perfectly show it. Ukraine quickly transformed from one of the wealthiest ex-USSR republics with rich industry able to produce even aircraft carriers into some kind of third world failed state. 

 

 

 

Ukraine get such horrible status due to mafia and oligarchy in power and huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge corruption

Russia was also in poor condition during Yeltsin time, mafia was roaming with AK in hands terrorizing shops, plants, famous in the world assault on Lada factory (you should remember this better than me)

so mafia , oligarchy and corruption can destroy ANY country

it is not matter if they are anti-Russian or not, 

it is matter that criminals have low punishment, that courts doesn't work

 

why Polish industry (except evil deeds from western corporations) fallen in 89/90s ?

- corruption of politicians who sold it "for 1 dollar" 

- nepotism (which back than was not present in "west" but now west is spoiled too), nepotism - that no matter if you had good marks in university - main engineer in factory will be son of director or CEO even if he(son) is moron without any skills or knowledge, 

- corrupted courts  - proven crimes ? no sentence, judge says "free, case dismissed" - you cannot make business when someone cheats you and you cannot get back your money and he cheats another people and he is free, 

 

so I think it is matter of nepotism (not the best skilled people decide but those with proper family relatives and seeing it those who were skilled emigrated and those who remained are weak in engineering), corruption (in court, in politcs, politicians deciding about spending budget and giving state-orders (competitive tendering) to 1 company "for good price")

 

oligarchs turned Ukraine into clan-like structure , regions ruled by rich businesman (who mostly came from mafia) despite elected politicians (who in fact are puppets in those businesman hands , the same what now corporations do in west , so people vote against but corporations make it true, all protests like anti GMO, anti CETA anti TTIP anti  ACTA etc)

when such deals are in secret and later you hear that "CETA allows company to change law in country" than you are schocked - you vote for politician in parliament, they set law and ... law is deleted cause abroad corporation stopped it ? 

such things which EU will see - were seen in Ukraine because of oligarchy 

 

it is not matter of them being anti- or pro- Russian , it is matter of weak justice system , of weak law, of corrupted judges, of nepotism , of long fingers of mafia which can kill people who are hunting mafia etc. 

another kind of falling state you have in American continent - Mexico, 170 thousands of victims of drug cartels officially , probably many more unoficially, and this is state ? this is state in which you have total gun control , you cannot have magazine but drug cartels roam on streets with automatic machine guns and behead people who were mayors of cities fighting against drug dealers ? is this a state ?

also corruption, crimes etc. 

 

in Africa similar - also many fallen states in which local rich guy rules in fact, not court , not parliament, not legal system, but simply the richest guy in town (often gangster, drug dealer, smuggler etc), 

 

corruption is cancer that eats any country, strongest countries are countries which have strong courts, low corruption, low nepotism - and it has nothing to do with them being anti-other nation

 

I believe that Ukraine to stay tall instead to be fallen needs total change of all policemen, prosecutors, judges - than they can rebuild country when everyone, literrally anyone can be arrested for smallest criminal offence, no matter if you has 4 billions on his bank account (in our countries VIPs are untouchable for justice system, you would go to prison if you drive car after alcohol, you would go to prison if you carry legal gun (if you would get license/permit) after drinking, they can drive car being drunk and shoot in the air (of course they get permit) and all is okay, case dismissed - the same in all post-commie countries including Russia "blue basket" top-rich cars in Moscow  )

 

so far Ukraine makes opposite - takes politicians from my country which here were/are/will be under investigation for corruption, shady business etc. 

there is a lot that can be stolen from Ukraine still - they have best farmland  soils, probably some big corporations want to "privatise" and buy it so they can own soil and produce and sell grain, guys who made "reforms" here in 90s, for sure will "take care" about Ukraine , for sure some corporations soon gonna buy some industrial plants for 1 euro  

[spooky lynx 73]

In my opinion it's not the matter of mafia, nepotism, corruption or something else. When the large part of the population blames its eastern neighbour in all its problems, is cheered by any kind of trouble happened in neighbouring country, approves naming the streets after notorious separatist who is responsible for massive hostage taking (Budennovsk, Kizlyar) and genocide of non-Slavic population, sends its men to every conflict against the neighbour (Abhasia, Chechnya, Georgia, Karabakh), tries to use every possible ability to complicate the operation of the fleet etc., etc. and at the same time dreams of possibility to flee to wealthy Europe... I think it's impossible to build more or less stable and developing state with such behavior and thoughts. They don't want to see the prosperous Ukraine. They want to annoy damned moskalis (who are just a demons and responsible for every bad thing happening) instead. The whole concept of independence was based on the idea 'We feed the Moscow, damned Russians rob us and opress us, let's separate and immediately after that we'll become as rich as Europeans'. They even created the fetish of so-called 'golodomor' - deliberately created shortage of food aimed to kill as many Ukrainians as possible. Despite the fact that in that year the same thing happened in my region and in northern Kazakhstan due to droughts. And there were the same high level of deaths.

[vilas 473]

of course oligarchy, corruption, nepotism, mafia, 

historical-national issues have nothing to this

the most dangerous for country situation is it's level of corruption, look at rich in raw materials natural resources countries which are so poor that people there are starving - cause all their natural wealth is abused by small group of corrupted oligarchs from gov. , special services, mafia

their attitude to other nations do not have anything to what oligarchs and corrupted politicians wasted ,

it is not matter of hate or love to other nation - when politician makes decision that destroy industrial plant but matter of what he get in envelope or suitcase 

[dimon 28]