Ukraine General

[vilas 473]

oh - it is important from native German speaker ,

if official German ministry document contains error - it can be fake by Russian intel to mess inside Polish political scene,

we can recognise on our Polish forums many trolls from Russia, they make grammar mistakes, which we do not clarify, but we recognize Russian speaking trolls on forums,

so good that you note those errors , so than it is probably fake made in photoshop with attempt to mess inside Polish politicial scene (which already is messed )

[sudayev 27]

Here is Polish translation made by person skilled in German + googlized English version.

https://goo.gl/pTd1Jr

In last sentence German minister asks to "temporarily withhold" raising this question until the situation on Ukraine stabilizes. It is not sure if Omilanowska followed Steinmeier’s recommendation...

As my translator stated, this document has some errors which makes this document very dubious. Moreover if it was real, we would know about these papers already.

Generally there is a big divide in Polish ruling regime (Civic Platform), some of them want to speak out loud about UPA crime, some (loyal to Berlin) don't want to and will what Berlin or Brussels advises - of course for proper benefits. Sooner of later they will face the consequences, but some of them have already evacuated to safe retreat in Brussels, what this rat Donald Tusk and two of his best comrades have done.

Opposition parties disagree with committing such sacrifice for sake of the EU interest.

This is what awaits for Donald Tusk and his clique

Edited May 6, 2015 by Sudayev

[vilas 473]

i wish it was not photoshop but realism :)

offtopic - Polish police uses flecktarn in woodland colors :D

of course made in my addon,

it is flectarn camo but with colors like US woodland, not in German colors (red, sand, black, dark green)

but in black, greyish green, brown , greenish-greyish-tan base,

MP5 is probably Turkish copy, cause it was cheaper, there are no EOT-552 mounted on photos, but nowadays they put EOT-552 on anything, including 12.7 mm NSW (Utes NSV)

after all we are in Arma forums

there was also urban-flecktarn camo in use, but phased out , but in 90s there was white-grey-black flecktarn in use,

also there was made desert fleckarn if Police would be sent to desert areas, but it was never used,

btw. i know this corridor on photo... i just wonder if one of our addonmakers from OFP is not on this photo ;)

Edited May 5, 2015 by vilas

[sudayev 27]

Hehe, can't argue with such expertise ;)

[spooky lynx 73]

if Putin was not imperlialist - we slavic should keep together, but Putin spoiled all in any pro-Slavic,with-Russia relations by anexation of Crimea

Is it Putin's fault that Ukrainian nazis took part in the murders of Russians in Abhasia, Osetia, Chechnya, Karabakh? Is it Putin's fault that Poland, Czechia, Slovakia tried to do their best to become US puppets since the days of USSR collapse? Is it Putin's fault that Ustashi became popular again in Croatia after collapse of Yugoslavia?

[John Kozak 14]

Is it Putin's fault that Ukrainian nazis took part in the murders of Russians in Abhasia, Osetia, Chechnya, Karabakh? Is it Putin's fault that Poland, Czechia, Slovakia tried to do their best to become US puppets since the days of USSR collapse? Is it Putin's fault that Ustashi became popular again in Croatia after collapse of Yugoslavia?

Ukrainian Nazis took part in killing Russians in Chechnya? My, oh, my...

[spooky lynx 73]

Ukrainian Nazis took part in killing Russians in Chechnya? My, oh, my...

Yes, comrade moskal'. They took side of Dudayev.

[Tonci87 163]

Is it Putin's fault that Ukrainian nazis took part in the murders of Russians in Abhasia, Osetia, Chechnya, Karabakh? Is it Putin's fault that Poland, Czechia, Slovakia tried to do their best to become US puppets since the days of USSR collapse? Is it Putin's fault that Ustashi became popular again in Croatia after collapse of Yugoslavia?

Ustashi popular in Croatia? Who told you that bullshit?

[spooky lynx 73]

Ustashi popular in Croatia? Who told you that bullshit?

That was you.:rolleyes:

[Tonci87 163]

That was you.:rolleyes:

And when was that? During the war, 20 years ago. And even then they were not popular, there where some military formations that used their symbols and some slogans saw more widespread use. Are Ustashi popular today? Do they maybe have their own movement or party? Nope.....

Next time read my post more carefully.

[aleksadragutin 9]

And when was that? During the war, 20 years ago. And even then they were not popular, there where some military formations that used their symbols and some slogans saw more widespread use. Are Ustashi popular today? Do they maybe have their own movement or party? Nope.....

Next time read my post more carefully.

Actually, HDZ is popular today and they promised to continiue the politics of Tudjman (and he draws he's views based on Ustashi policies).

[Tonci87 163]

Actually, HDZ is popular today and they promised to continiue the politics of Tudjman (and he draws he's views based on Ustashi policies).

Oh, so that is why he disbanded the HOS (the volunteer battalions that used some Ustasha insignia) and ordered the assasination of their leader? Is that why most of the high rank HDZ guys are ex communists, like for example Mesic? You won´t find a single Ustasha in the HDZ dude, they are all ex commies and opportunists....

[aleksadragutin 9]

Oh, so that is why he disbanded the HOS (the volunteer battalions that used some Ustasha insignia) and ordered the assasination of their leader? Is that why most of the high rank HDZ guys are ex communists, like for example Mesic? You won´t find a single Ustasha in the HDZ dude, they are all ex commies and opportunists....

There's a picture of the president paying a visit to someone abroad (i think in the us) and in the background you could see a Croatian flag without the crown. Also there could be tons of reasons for disbanding HOS the least likely being the use of Ustashi insignia (probably internal power struggles). You have to admit that there's a bit of Ustashi rethorics in todays Croatia.

Found the picture.

http://beta.informer.rs/data/images/2015-03-09/10638_kolinda_f.jpg?1425910894

Edited May 7, 2015 by aleksadragutin

[Tonci87 163]

There's a picture of the president paying a visit to someone abroad (i think in the us) and in the background you could see a Croatian flag without the crown. Also there could be tons of reasons for disbanding HOS the least likely being the use of Ustashi insignia (probably internal power struggles). You have to admit that there's a bit of Ustashi rethorics in todays Croatia.

Found the picture.

http://beta.informer.rs/data/images/2015-03-09/10638_kolinda_f.jpg?1425910894

Oh god, there was a flag in the background without the crown on it, shocking!

Seriously, the only people who pay attention to that are Serbians (I can understand why) and politicians. Average Croatians don´t give a fuck if it has a crown or not.

If I was in Croatia right now I could go to my local church and find half a dozen of those flags, why? Because they are old, some from medieval times. This flag without the crown has been Croatias symbol long before the second world war.

If I was to ask my relatives, I´m sure they would have some of those flags stashed away too, simply because they were really popular during the war.

Croatians living abroad, they have a lot of those flags too, but you won´t find anybody who would identify himself as Ustasha, that is not what that flag stands for in todays Croatia.

Ustashi rhetorics in Croatia? Sure, there are a few individuals, but not within the HDZ or the other ruling parties.

Serbian press really likes to blow those things out of proportions just as much as the Croatian press likes to do it with everything communist or chetnik (what a mess that is every time....). In general the press on the Balkan is pretty fucked up.

[vilas 473]

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1356,title,Oligarchowie-trzymaja-sie-mocno-na-Ukrainie,wid,17517343,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=114d25

Ukrainian journalist analysis of Ukraine for Polish website, google-translate yourself,

in short:

what changed in Ukraine after revolution that was telling it is aimed AGAINST OLIGARCHS ?

nothing in this manner - oligarchs (top-rich mafia businesmen) still rule in Ukraine,

last killings of Yanuk cooperators show mafia fighting with mafia for power, (few sites ago i pasted article being analysis of those killings which politicians love to see political but which are most probably mafia wars),

FBI leads investigation about one of Ukrainian oligarch in mafia cases,

so basically Oligarchy keeps strong, main postulate of revolution has fallen, mafia still in rule (similar to Polish post-commie changes, where commies were not eliminated but they changed suits from military ranks to CEO in companies and keep business power or legal power in courts is held by their kids, because in 25 years of "freedom" noone made legal act forbidding commies or their children to take important positions in business in state-owned companies or budget-participating companies, law, administration, system may change symbols/flag/crown on emblem but people in administration are the same, so often in courts judge is son or nephew of previous judge , so when you want to hunt commie criminal for things you suffered before 1989, you put claim to... his daughter or son )

in Ukraine mafia still play leading role, they wanted to eliminate oligarchy, they have president, prime-minister oligarchs again

Edited May 7, 2015 by vilas

[ArmAMake 10]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLB_fMN1bUc

[spooky lynx 73]

what changed in Ukraine after revolution that was telling it is aimed AGAINST OLIGARCHS ?

nothing in this manner - oligarchs (top-rich mafia businesmen) still rule in Ukraine,

I've said the same even before the shitstorm in february began. The whole maidan mess was just struggle of one oligarchy clans with others. Just see who was among leaders of maidan - those who were already in charge in the country. So it is quite naive to think that protest led by oligarchs will be struggle against them.

[oxmox 73]

Fraternal feud - on the brink of war (FAZ - google transl.)

The Ukrainian army do not want to accept the lone hand action of the "right sector" any longer and therfore excercise force against them. The paramilitary volunteer corps has become a hard solving problem for Poroshenko.

The "right sector" and his paramilitary volunteer corps are now the most important of those largely uncontrolled citizens militias, who in 2014, at the beginning of the Russian intervention in eastern Ukraine, significantly contributed to stop the advance of the pro-Russian separatists from the industrial area Donbass.

Emerged from the militant wing of the Kiev protesters during the revolution of the "Euromajdan" which caused the corrupt president Viktor Yanukovich to flee to Moscow in 2014, the "rights sector" under its founder Dmytro Jarosch has since become a well-organized private army.

His appearance had always two faces.

On the one hand Jaroschs highly motivated fighters proved itself on all fronts, on the other hand their leader has repeatedly criticized their own government. Arguing the new Kiev establishment under President Petro Poroshenko was just as corrupt as the old fled the Yanukovych, he has more than once threatened when so on go, had to go and clean up to Kiev.

His fighters who show a noticeable aversion to democracy and a strong tendency to leading figures in the style of old Kosakenhetmane or the Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet in an interview with the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, despise the new "liberal" Kievan state.

The army leadership defines these battle-hardened men and women, a group of post-Soviet apparatchiks permeated with traitors.

Negotiations on the "legalization" of volunteers from "rights sector" have therefore still brought no result, the conflict remains unresolved.

Both sides have indeed trivialized tensions in recent days. Retrieved from "misunderstandings" and "Kremlin provocation" was mentioned, but the reality spoke their own language.

In Welykomichailiwka the soldiers dug in, and the speaker of the "rights sector", Artem Skoropadsky, has launched a few days ago at the head of a demonstration in front of the Kiev Presidential Office when it goes ahead unchanged, Poroschenkos palace will soon "burned". Then you'll "this scum" ask "what they have done, as our fighters died out there."

Attacks against state corporations

In an internal document from the secret service SBU, is available to the FAZ, it says, the "rights sector" was in fact something quite different from the alleged vigilante brave patriots, for whom he claims to be. In truth, he was closely associated with the people of the controversial billionaire Ihor Kolomojskij, on the one hand many voluntary associations support open, has been on the other hand but also repeatedly observed in the area of ​​armed raids on foreign companies.

His latest such occurrence during the (failed) attacks of armed men on the state-owned enterprises "Ukrnafta" and "Ukrtransnafta" was President Poroshenko initiated in March to dismiss the billionaire from his post as governor of Dnipropetrovsk. Since then, there is a cold war between Kolomojskij and the Government.

--> Cheerful, giggling, with conviction, says Alla Megel, as if it were the most normal thing in the world, "it'll just sometimes happen that the "right sector" must punish corrupt officials on their own, because no one else is doing it".......

The SBU now claims some attacks of recent months had men of "rights sector" made with the people Kolomojskijs common cause - for example during a raid on an agricultural company, in which the attackers had stolen several combines the brand 'John Deere'. The "Right Sector" Although denies having anything to do with Kolomojskij but many connections are clearly visible.

Two faces of the same story: In the papers of the SBU a sinister story of oligarchs, extortion and nationalist gangs, on the other the old Robin Hood legend of the noble robber who takes the rich and gives to the poor. A state is struggling to be monopoly, but armed citizens, for whom the state is just a bunch of corrupt traitor, do not want the weapons resign. In between playing the oligarchs their games, and out to the entrenchments of the camp "Druzhba" have fallen in the night of Friday the first shots.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/europa/ukraine-bruderzwist-am-rande-des-krieges-13569787.html

Edited May 7, 2015 by oxmox

[vilas 473]

often truth "lies in between" or truth is brutal and politically not correct

many times only one that are not corrupted is far right (people from not corrupted west do not understand it, but they have their transparency because in past they had harsh law , which in corrupted countries is very very soft, and only right wing wants harsh law)

why ? because they are ideological, they do it for ideology (which has 2 sides as coin) not for money,

in very corrupted states it works that way,

in very corrupted states mainstream parties are most corrupted ones,

in case of Ukraine which was rotten inside from corruption all mainstream parties are corrupted,

and all that parties want eliminate far right NOT because they are about tolerance (they use tollerance as argument but it is fake simply to discredit far right which would inprison them for theft, also they are aginst harsh law cause they are bandits), but because they would end in prisons with confiscated money if any honest person would be in government ,

this is problem of Ukraine, also similar to other countries which love to hunt "fasicsts"

most "beware of xenophobia" shout is raised by those who... simply want foreign corporations interest to be above local national interest (tax policy, prices, ownership of plants)

and this is a problem, when only one who will not rob you is "nazi"

[oxmox 73]

Only a while ago , Dmytro Jarosh, was promoted to a top military advisor for the Chief of General Staff....wasnt mentioned in the article.

why ? because they are ideological, they do it for ideology (which has 2 sides as coin) not for money,

They are just a tool, people who pull the strings behind are not doing it for ideology i.e. Kolomoyski, Maidan protests

Edited May 7, 2015 by oxmox

[vilas 473]

They are just a tool, people who pull the strings behind are not doing it for ideology i.e. Kolomoyski

west because of politicall correctness is very sensitive on far right, thus west always is suspicious to them , but completely not suspicious to left wing,

making mistake (all those cases where western public opinions supported "democratic" lefitsts who in fact were biggest thieves with mouths full of slogans, who was so praising Timoshenko like not west, while Timoshenko had criminal cases),

joke is other, ideologists who are ideologists will arrest for corruption even those who supported them if they are real ideologists,

many times head of political movement is corrupted, usual members are honest , around leaders there are always usual careerists (political officers, in religion bishops), who simply want to get power and money,

you know what happens when ideological honest people find truth about corruption of their leaders - they kill them

and it is not secret for oligarchs or far right politicians, thats why they are so sensitive to stop their own movement before usual members will look for corruption of leaders,

Ukraine biggest problem is oligarchy system , it keeps Ukraine on level of banana-republic or medival prince-state, such state is fighting inside because of local prince business, this situation is very very very hard to fix in short time,

in case of such level of corruption, all public servants should be changed with new one people , the only problem is where from to take them (and how to stop previous ones from defend their positions) to replace everyone in every service (state owned companies, electrical plants, ministry, local administration, police, army, courts, customs, custody service...)

and this is problem of EU regular citizens (especially my country) as well, because if it will not be fixed in Ukraine, than large wave of emigrants will hit our labor market and than it will be painful for us too (cheap labor issue),

thats why EU should... ehhh wasting keyboard, EU is ruled by corporations, banksters, they just seek for cheap labour and plants to steal, they do not want to solve anything, the worse for us, the better for them,

big problem in Ukraine = more cheap labor = our natives are obeying cause they afraid to loose job = market to sell weapons = plants to steal , cheap prostitutes (desperate seeking peaceful place without flying bullets) = new market place when native industry is destroyed,

so than EU politician goes to shake hand with any oligarchs, cursing in media far right,

if oligarchy system would be destroyed - only one who will gain will be Ukrainian regular citizens ,

but not corporations ,

of course it worked in Russian side before Ukrainian changes on similar base

Edited May 7, 2015 by vilas

[spooky lynx 73]

west because of politicall correctness is very sensitive on far right, thus west always is suspicious to them , but completely not suspicious to left wing,

In case of far-right Ukrainian nationalists they were tool since their birth - first tool of Austro-Hungary, then of Reich, and now of mainly US and partly EU.

[oxmox 73]

Why The Economies Of Ukraine and Russia Are Nearly Inseparable (Ukrainian TV - Hromadske)

What You Need to Know:

✓ Russia and Ukraine’s territorial proximity and integrated Soviet-era economy means that both countries’ economies are largely intertwined;

✓ Even if Ukraine’s moves towards Europe are largely successful, Ukrainian and Russian business ties will almost certainly remain strong;

✓ Despite a ‘hybrid war’ between Russia and Ukraine and international sanctions against Moscow, these economic links are still vital for both countries, and particularly for Ukraine;

In Short

Despite a contemporary war and break down of bilateral relations between Ukraine and Russia, Russian-Ukrainian economic ties remain an important aspect of relations between both former Soviet republics.

Ukraine remains Russia’s largest trading partner in the former Soviet space, while Russia is still Ukraine’s important economic partner.

With a shared economy under the Soviet system, many Russian industries continue to rely on Ukrainian imports and assistance, and vice versa.

While some Ukrainians saw the Maidan revolution as a way to free their country from the grasp of Russian influence, especially in the energy sector, economic links in Russia will most likely continue to be an important cornerstone of the country’s economic well-being.

Quick Breakdown Of Russia-Ukraine Economic Ties

Seeing as both countries co-existed in a single state as part of a unified economic whole as recently as twenty-five years ago, Russian-Ukrainian economic ties are compounded by co-dependent supply chains in specific industries and close personal business relationships that have largely survived and prospered through more than two decades of political separation.

Until the current Ukrainian crisis, there has been little effort from Kyiv to diversify the economy and reduce dependence on Russia.

In 2013, 5% of Russia’s imports consisted of Ukrainian products. Among former Soviet states, this makes Ukraine Russia’s most important trading partner. In addition, 24% of Ukrainian exports went to Russia in the same year.

Given the disparate sizes of the Ukrainian and Russian economies, Ukraine is much more dependent on trade with Russia than vice versa.

Energy Ties

Since independence, Ukraine has been particularly reliant on Russian energy imports.

Ukraine’s energy reliance has given Russia disproportionate political pressure over Kyiv. In the past decade, the Russian government has used gas pricing and gas shut offs to exert pressure on the Ukrainian government, most recently in the fall of 2014.

Ukraine’s dependence on Russian energy is compounded by energy subsidies that breed mismanagement and misuse.

Defense Industry Ties

Perhaps one of the most complicated and important links between Russia and Ukraine involve cooperation in the military sector.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, these ties in the defense industry remained. Russia still relies on Ukrainian imports for key components of various military systems, including engines for Russian transport helicopters.

Ukraine’s defense industry relationship with Russia is also important for the Ukrainian economy as well, and the new political dimension to this field of joint ties is also undermining key Ukrainian exporters.

Economic Ties Continue Through the War

Since the overthrow of former President Yanukovych and the current conflict between Russia and Ukraine, both Russia and Ukraine have hit each other with trade sanctions of their own, including Ukraine’s ban on military exports to Russia.

Following the annexation of Crimea, Russia removed gas subsidies formerly guaranteed to Ukraine, shutting off deliveries when Ukraine refused to pay the higher prices

In the early days of 2015, top figures in the Ukrainian government, including Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, have announced Ukraine’s intentions to eventually meet all of its energy needs without Russian imports.

In addition, Kyiv plans to meet 60% of its energy import needs from Europe in 2015, with the remaining 40% coming from Russia. This is a significant difference from 2013, when all of Ukraine’s imports and 58% of Ukraine’s total energy needs were covered by Russian imports.

Projecting the Future

Trade with Russia totaled 19% of Ukrainian exports and 25% of its imports, a far bigger share for the Ukrainian economy than any single country.

With a free trade agreement between the European Union and Ukraine, it’s only natural that Europe will increasingly play a larger role in Ukraine’s external trade and overall economic well-being.

Parts of the Ukrainian market lost by Russia will inevitably be filled by Europe.

Remark: - - (well, the Ukraine does not offer many products the EU/western countries need ...isnt it ? Other things are more interesting i.e. agriculture, lending,....) --

Even despite the re-orientation of the Ukrainian economy, it’s difficult to imagine that Russia will not remain an important cornerstone of the country’s international trade.

The Russian-Ukrainian military conflict, mutual sanctions, a re-orientation of Ukraine westward, and a breakdown in personal business relationships will take a toll. But, like the former Soviet and Soviet-allied countries of eastern and central Europe before it, bilateral trade might very well recover in the long-term.

http://int.hromadske.tv/en/articles/show/Why_Economies_Ukraine_Russia_Nearly_Inseparable

Edited May 8, 2015 by oxmox

[ProfTournesol 956]

In case of far-right Ukrainian nationalists they were tool since their birth - first tool of Austro-Hungary, then of Reich, and now of mainly US and partly EU.

What an obsession for you. How many neo nazis fighting alongside so called DPR ? The most far right regime in Europe isn't Putin's one ? All that is pathetic. Yes there are neo nazis in Ukraine, are they ruling the country ? What was there score in the last presidential elections ?

Edited May 9, 2015 by ProfTournesol

[Sub-Human 10]

Yes, comrade moskal'. They took side of Dudayev.

I don't know about that.

But I do know that 'Russian defender' Putin took side of Chechen extremists Kadyrov father and son, who told Chechens 'kill 100, 200 Russians if possible'. Now they are national heroes and the father is even getting his own statue. Great job!