surpher 1 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Oh of course those people and houses must have killed/destroyed themselves, how could I think of something else.Im too lazy to search for videos or photos on the internet to prove something to a random dude on the internet, who will deny everything thats not correspondsÃng with his point of view anyway. Anyway what do I care about, thousand of civilians around the world are killed yearly by ourselves or our allies in some glorious wars on terror, but its never spoken about, so it doesnt happen. Why should it be different in this case. I have to take a leave from reading this topic for a while, my hypocrisymeter has just exploded, couldnt manage the incoming traffic. Cop out. This webpage shows images:http://v7news.com/ukraine-bombed-schools-and-other-social-facilities-in-gorlovka-sighting-mortar-fire-video-photos/ Link\Site not loading. Overview by the OSCE in the region about both sides shelling areas, seems like there were no OSCE in Horlovka but the town is mentioned and attacks from this direction did allegedly happen aswell. (19th January 2015). Would be too much to post all the infos, if you are interested follow the link: http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/135491 Overview about DPR controlled City of Donetsk, shelling of civilian structure and casualties reports: http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/135671 http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/136026 I have no doubt the shelling of Horlivka has occurred but we are talking about bombs dropped from planes. That OSCE report only says Ukraine held Debaltseve was attacked from the direction of DPR controlled Horlivka. No other mention of Horlivka in the report. According to the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the Russian Federation Armed Forces representation at the JCCC headquarter in government-controlled Debaltseve (55km north-east of Donetsk), on 19 January at 07:40hrs, at least 30 Grad rockets impacted in and around the centre of Debaltseve killing three civilians and wounding twelve. The SMM observed that the rockets had caused significant damage to buildings and covered an area of approximately one square kilometre. The SMM saw at least seven unexploded rockets (UXOs). A crater analysis performed by the SMM showed that the Grad rockets came from a western direction, the direction of “DPRâ€-controlled Horlivka. Thats how i did follow the situation in the last days, correct me if I did miss something..... 1) Putin offers Poroshenko a peace solution which reminds on the minsk agreement which includes the withdraw of heavy gear (i.e. artillery, grad, xx). 2) Poroshenko rejects and starts a major offensive 3) The Offensive by Kiev wasnt a success and the Rebels reject further talks 4) They start their own military offensive 1) "Pro" Russian winter offensive starts after orthodox christmas. Attacks on Ukraine territory increase to 100+ daily. 2) Putin wants to renegotiate the Minsk agreement, removing the requirement that Russia withdraws its fighter and hands over the control of the border over to Ukraine. 3) Russia claims Poroshenko rejects the peace plan without offering an alternative. 4) Putin continues his offensive, Poroshenko naively talks about peace. (InformNapalm) Warehouses with a huge amount of ammunition. Sukhodolsk (Krasnodonsky district). Russian humanitarian aid convoy1 entered Ukraine on August 22nd. Location Edited January 26, 2015 by surpher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maio 293 Posted January 26, 2015 Putin: Ukraine army is NATO legion aimed at restraining RussiaThe Ukrainian army is essentially a ‘NATO legion’ which doesn’t pursue the national interests of Ukraine, but persists to restrict Russia, President Vladimir Putin says. http://rt.com/news/226319-putin-nato-russia-ukraine/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 26, 2015 That guy is mental....or he thinks his people are... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) That guy is mental....or he thinks his people are... Maybe he is turning into a Yelsin kind, a vodka lover... Because a speech like that can only be said if you are completely wasted... So basically, according to Putin to defend Ukrainian soil from Russian invaders and schemes is not defending Ukrainian's national interests. So according to Putin to protect Ukraine's national interests would be to surrender to Russia? ( TASS ) Putin calls Ukrainian army ‘NATO legion’ with geopolitical aim to contain Russia Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday called the Ukrainian army “a NATO legion†that has the geopolitical goal to contain Russia.“In essence, this is already not an army, but a foreign legion, in this case NATO’s foreign legion that certainly does not pursue the goal of defending Ukraine’s national interests,†the president said. Edited January 26, 2015 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted January 26, 2015 This guy is frightening....how come Russians subscribe to all that BS is beyond me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maio 293 Posted January 26, 2015 NATO Secretary General statement on the extraordinary meeting of the NATO-Ukraine Commission http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_116862.htm?selectedLocale=en What I got out of it. Also whoever asked that question regarding the NATO legions... well... :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 26, 2015 This guy is frightening....how come Russians subscribe to all that BS is beyond me. Well one of my Russian friends already told me that "Putin used to be a useful idiot, now is becoming a useless one". So probably people are starting to be tired of him and his crazy occurrences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aleksadragutin 9 Posted January 26, 2015 This guy is frightening....how come Russians subscribe to all that BS is beyond me. This is not such a strange thing at all. One could argue that foreign companies are enslaving countries. Taking over their economies, and the countries winding up in dept. It's how it was here, but you wouldn't know that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted January 26, 2015 This is not such a strange thing at all. One could argue that foreign companies are enslaving countries. Taking over their economies, and the countries winding up in dept. It's how it was here, but you wouldn't know that. Who is enslaving who is a good question indeed. I'm happy not being a neighbour of Russia to be honest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) This is not such a strange thing at all. One could argue that foreign companies are enslaving countries. Taking over their economies, and the countries winding up in dept. It's how it was here, but you wouldn't know that. Yeah, that's why the best solution is to surrender to Russia, to be completely enslaved by the Kremlin... :rolleyes: In fact precisely that was the beginning of everything, the will of the people and the majority of the legit parliament of Ukraine to get rid of Yanukovich who was turning the Ukrainians into slaves of Russia. Funny fact is that if we check the history of Ukraine, there's long periods of enslavement by Russia and none by foreign companies... Edited January 26, 2015 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aleksadragutin 9 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Yeah, that's why the best solution is to surrender to Russia, to be completely enslaved by the Kremlin... :rolleyes:In fact precisely that was the beginning of everything, the will of the people and the majority of the legit parliament of Ukraine to get rid of Yanukovich who was turning the Ukrainians into slaves of Russia. Funny fact is that if we check the history of Ukraine, there's long periods of enslavement by Russia and none by foreign companies... That all sounds nice in theory, but it's a bit different in practice. You don't know how things went down here, and most likely, that's how it's gonna bee in Ukraine. Edited January 26, 2015 by aleksadragutin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) That all sounds nice in theory, but it's a bit different in practice. Enlighten us. Please. You don't know how things went down here, and most likely, that's how it's gonna bee in Ukraine. Yeah I just have long time friends from Ukraine ( even guys with whom I studied in the university and partied every week about ten years ago ). Oh and... if you don't believe me, believe the FSB colonel that started everything: ( IB Times ) Igor Strelkov admits Russia FSB affiliation in Kremlin-censored interview In the interview with Kremlin-funded Rossiya Segodnya agency, which incorporates the former RIA Novosti and Voice of Russia, Strelkov responds to critics who question his experience in planning military operations by saying:"I really am a FSB colonel, so I have a calm attitude and I do not advise you to call my military rank lower than it is. The title has a higher value for the military than [it has] for civilians." ( The Moscow Times ) Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine "I was the one who pulled the trigger of this war," Strelkov said in an interview published Thursday with Russia's Zavtra newspaper, which espouses imperialist views. Edited January 26, 2015 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surpher 1 Posted January 26, 2015 UN Security Council: Ukraine - live now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 26, 2015 UN Security Council: Ukraine - live now Poor Russian UNSC representative, he can't even fake that he is telling the truth. The Pro-Russian leaders words emitted in the main Russian Media prevents him to have any credibility, and all the other UNSC representatives are quoting them all the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maio 293 Posted January 26, 2015 Poor Russian UNSC representative, he can't even fake that he is telling the truth. The Pro-Russian leaders words emitted in the main Russian Media prevents him to have any credibility, and all the other UNSC representatives are quoting them all the time. "The West side" is not doing to good either. They are just repeating themselves... but that's international politics for you :bounce3: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keeway 287 Posted January 26, 2015 Wake up Donbass people ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 26, 2015 Can we please not have propaganda material such as this here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted January 26, 2015 Or at least good music :angel: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 26, 2015 "The West side" is not doing to good either. They are just repeating themselves... but that's international politics for you :bounce3: There's no much to say but repeat what has been repeated for almost a year. Even China agrees that Ukraine's complete territorial integrity must be respected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clifdenhill 1 Posted January 26, 2015 I'm really concerned about this whole situation. anyone think it can be resolved peacefully at all? I hope so cause I really think this is no good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 26, 2015 I'm really concerned about this whole situation. anyone think it can be resolved peacefully at all? I hope so cause I really think this is no good. Russia created the situation and is mainly fueling the situation ( check Strelkov declarations that I linked in the previous page ). Also are Russian actions that jeopardize all peace talks. Showing its total lack of interest for peace. Unless Putin changes his mind ( by any means ), there's no way to peacefully solve it. But unfortunately Putin's imperialist actions are the ones that keep his popularity high. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aleksadragutin 9 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Enlighten us. Please.Yeah I just have long time friends from Ukraine ( even guys with whom I studied in the university and partied every week about ten years ago ). Oh and... if you don't believe me, believe the FSB colonel that started everything: ( IB Times ) Igor Strelkov admits Russia FSB affiliation in Kremlin-censored interview ( The Moscow Times ) Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine I believe you, but here's the brake down of the events following the pro western revolution in Serbia. 1st all military secrets lost, programs canceled, 2nd appointing executives in state firms on political party bases (democratic party off course), that used their positions for personal and party gain, 3rd selling ruined firms to foreign investors at ridiculously low prices, 4th paying the investors our selves, 5th taking back the firms along with investors depts, 6th taking so much bank credit to fix the situation (off course in foreign banks), 7th falling into dept slavery, 8th ending up with the shitty situation we have today. Not to mention that all of this is accompanied by a type of EU inquisition(which one of our satirical shows well portrayed), forcing Serbia to humilify itself. That's what I think is going to happen in Ukraine. They can't trust Russia, but it's stupid to think that they can trust US and EU. Edited January 26, 2015 by aleksadragutin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clifdenhill 1 Posted January 26, 2015 Russia created the situation and is mainly fueling the situation ( check Strelkov declarations that I linked in the previous page ). Also are Russian actions that jeopardize all peace talks. Showing its total lack of interest for peace. Unless Putin changes his mind ( by any means ), there's no way to peacefully solve it. But unfortunately Putin's imperialist actions are the ones that keep his popularity high. that's unfortunate, figured it'd be that way. I'm really going to be paying attention to this cause it doesn't seem very good at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 26, 2015 That's what I think is going to happen in Ukraine. They can't trust Russia, but it's stupid to think that they can trust US and EU. I understand your point of view and I respect it. Obviously Ukraine shouldn't blindly trust anyone and do their will. But that nothing has to do with Russia militarily invading Ukraine and creating chaos. In my opinion, the situation in Ukraine has practically nothing to do with the situation in Serbia/Yugoslavia in the 90's; in fact it's practically the opposite, Serbia at that time was closer to Russia today. I won't expand it more to avoid derailing the thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aleksadragutin 9 Posted January 26, 2015 I understand your point of view and I respect it. Obviously Ukraine shouldn't blindly trust anyone, but that nothing has to do with Russia militarily invading Ukraine and creating chaos.Tho in my opinion, the situation in Ukraine has practically nothing to do with the situation in Serbia/Yugoslavia in the 90's; in fact it's practically the opposite, Serbia at that time was closer to Russia today. I won't expand it more to avoid derailing the thread. Yes, but I'm talking about events after the revolution, very similar to the one in Ukraine, which allowed this kind of rise of corruption. I can feel for the people of Ukraine, but they are not realizing they're being manipulated on both ends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
