hellfire257 3 Posted July 17, 2014 You'd need a pretty good SAM system to hit something that high, and the technical skills to boot. I doubt your average militia dude could operate something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 17, 2014 You'd need a pretty good SAM system to hit something that high, and the technical skills to boot. I doubt your average militia dude could operate something like that. Well someone at the pro-Russian/Russian side have already done that three times this last week ( bringing down airplanes at high altitude ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted July 17, 2014 Those Grads were at Ukrainian territory just from a couple of km from the the border. No, it is confirmed that they were shooting from Russia. You'd need a pretty good SAM system to hit something that high, and the technical skills to boot. I doubt your average militia dude could operate something like that. The separatsits themselves said they used this thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted July 17, 2014 Well, one of the SU-25 downed seems to have been shot by another airplane, so probably Russian air border patrol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 17, 2014 What a good reason to beg for international military help to Kiev... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colossus 2 Posted July 17, 2014 Jesus... :mad: Why the hell was that air corridor open in the first place?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted July 17, 2014 What a good reason to beg for international military help to Kiev... Or for Russia to intervene. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikiforos 450 Posted July 17, 2014 This is getting out of hand and this might be the sparkle everybody was afraid for. RIP to all the innocent passengers on board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 17, 2014 Jesus... :mad:Why the hell was that air corridor open in the first place?! Yeah, that's a good question. Specially this last week with more than 3 Ukrainian planes shot down; the airspace should have been closed to Civilian aircrafts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Or for Russia to intervene. We hadn't intervened after our Tu-154 had been shot down in 2001. Why should we do if the plane was Malaysian? Jesus... :mad:Why the hell was that air corridor open in the first place?! IMO it had been done to divert everybody from defeat of UA armed forces in LPR and DPR and have another excuse to mark Donbass insurgents as terrorists with calling NATO to intervene. Look at track of that plane. It end near Kremenchug. Seems it's the place where it had been shot down. Edited July 17, 2014 by Spooky Lynx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 17, 2014 Uhm... why Putin was such in a hurry to inform Barack Obama, and how did he know so fast that was alerting already other presidents... RT Live Vladimir Putin informed Barack Obama about the crash immediately by phone, on the basis of air controller data, but so far neither the Kremlin nor the White House have commented on whether the Boeing-777 was downed. Map from BBC: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted July 17, 2014 IMO it had been done to divert everybody from defeat of UA armed forces in LPR and DPR and have another excuse to mark Donbass insurgents as terrorists with calling NATO to intervene. Conspiracy theories are fun and all, but to be honest, this is retarded on too many levels. DPR has pretty much lost all of its territories and the LPR is desperately using the scorched earth tactic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Spoetnik 10 Posted July 17, 2014 Conspiracy theories are fun and all, but to be honest, this is retarded on too many levels.,and so is blaming Russia for it all. what could Russia gain by shooting it down, Nothing! and what did that plane there in the first place? but with all theories and idea's 295 ppl died in it, and for what,some crazy political game? world go's crazier every day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 17, 2014 Uhm... why Putin was such in a hurry to inform Barack Obama, and how did he know so fast that was alerting already other presidents... Some pics taken by GRU FSB agents: http://savepic.net/5904067.jpg (132 kB) http://savepic.net/5909186.jpg (181 kB) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hellfire257 3 Posted July 17, 2014 Rebels with a god damn SA-11. Where did it come from? Where did the crew that operate the system come from? Where did the missiles come from? I find it difficult to believe that the answer to all of those questions is the Ukraine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maturin 12 Posted July 17, 2014 The simplest explanation is that poorly-trained rebels opened fire on the first radar contact that showed up on their (Russian-supplied) Buk system. If the Buk is anywhere near as user friendly as the Osa, it's entirely plausible. As for the plane getting hit by a missile near the Dnieper and then flying in silence all the way to the border... nice try. We all know that Russia is watching Ukrainian airspace closely enough that they would promptly present damning evidence of a Ukrainian attack on the plane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 17, 2014 ,and so is blaming Russia for it all. what could Russia gain by shooting it down, Nothing! and what did that plane there in the first place? Well if we check this last months events, it seems that someone though that was a Ukrainian Army transport plane, and shoot it down. Catastrophical mistake. That Putin has been the one that immediately has been informing everyone, seems to indicate that he knew from the direct sources... ---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ---------- From the Kremlin official website: The Russian leader informed the President of the United States has arrived just before telephoning air traffic control message about the crash of a Malaysian aircraft over the territory of Ukraine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted July 17, 2014 Air France and Lufthansa announce that they will avoid eastern Ukraine. Amazing that they didn't think of that before... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 17, 2014 Air France and Lufthansa announce that they will avoid eastern Ukraine. Amazing that they didn't think of that before... Reading that pilots comment, it makes quite sense, that why would they be afraid to fly over a conflict zone were there is no air conflict ( as only one side has planes ). And the other was supposed to be just rebels with conventional weapons... From The Guardian Live feed: My colleague Dan Milmo in London reports that it has been normal practice for airlines to fly over conflict zones since the Ukraine conflict began. He interviewed a pilot for a major European airline:"We would often avoid areas where there is air-to-air conflict, but we flew over Iraq and Afghanistan when the British and US armed forces were delpoyed there, because only one side was using military jets." Explaining why airlines fly over conflict zones where groups might be in possession of ground-to-air missiles, the pilot said: "There will be weapons based on the ground when you are at 30,000 feet, but that is far up in the air. There are not many missile systems that can be so accurate." His comments suggest that assumptions about weapons capabilities on the ground will have to be reevaluated, pending investigation of the crash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted July 17, 2014 Rebels are reported to have planes. The BBC's Oleg Boldyrev in Moscow says the rebels do not have out-dated equipment. What they have equals or maybe surpasses the Ukrainian government's capabilities. He says some reports say the rebels even have fighter planes reportedly flown from Crimea and that possibility should not be excluded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 17, 2014 Rebels are reported to have planes. Up-to-date there is no proof of that claims, and all sides seem to point a ground to air missile. There's gonna be a briefing about the situation in the US state dept. Watch live. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1124 Posted July 17, 2014 it's interesting no media yet mentions the recent hit of transport plane at 6.5km altitude and high altitude Su-22 hit ... (both belonging to Ukraine Air Forces) it's like the 'world class' media totally suck on gathering information everyone already knows ... it was clear rebels are getting high quality weapons 'help' from somewhere to counter offensive of Ukraine military Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted July 17, 2014 Up-to-date there is no proof of that claims, and all sides seem to point a ground to air missile. Indeed, but i were underlining that it was risky to fly over that area by planes. Still flying over because there is no air to air combat (there probably is anyway...) but only Anti Air system is plain stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 17, 2014 Indeed, but i was underlining that it was risky to fly over that area by planes. Still flying over because there is no air to air combat (there probably is anyway...) but only Anti Air system is plain stupid. Well in the past wars has been done without issues. And there were also anti air systems, although not the Russian ones. But yeah, it's clear that someone in the Airlines didn't pay enough attention. ---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ---------- It seems that one of the separatist leaders published this afternoon a note saying that they shot down another An 26: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswdhTUCQAEcM2r.jpg (105 kB) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted July 17, 2014 Why would the Ukrainian army (even if not that competent) shoot an anti air missile if there is no airborne threat by pro Russians or Russians ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
