Ukraine General

[scrim 1]

Well, I was referring to the forums. Last time I checked, none of the users who keep linking propaganda "news" like it's cool had access to ICBMs. :p

[spooky lynx 73]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGW_wXRdDMY

Self-defence forces separate civilians from army troops, saying "don't touch them, they are our brothers". Then everybody cheering the soldiers.

[Tonci87 163]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGW_wXRdDMY

Self-defence forces separate civilians from army troops, saying "don't touch them, they are our brothers". Then everybody cheering the soldiers.

Those are again the same BMDs that reportedly deffected. Man they sure like to parade them around...

And yes Dwarden could be perfectly right, those things might as well be brought in from Russia for propaganda reasons. We simply don´t know.

[spooky lynx 73]

Those are again the same BMDs that reportedly deffected. Man they sure like to parade them around...

And yes Dwarden could be perfectly right, those things might as well be brought in from Russia for propaganda reasons. We simply don´t know.

I'd agree. That's videos taken in different time and places but depicting the same vehicles. Another defected BMDs are painted in darker colors.

BTW from what I know all the airborne troops (batallion) of Ukrainian army left Crimea with all their weapons, armed vehicles and trucks. Only regular and naval infantry hardware was left and partly returned to Ukraine.

[Tonci87 163]

I'd agree. That's videos taken in different time and places but depicting the same vehicles. Another defected BMDs are painted in darker colors.

BTW from what I know all the airborne troops (batallion) of Ukrainian army left Crimea with all their weapons, armed vehicles and trucks. Only regular and naval infantry hardware was left and partly returned to Ukraine.

Well they got plenty of those things in Russia, they simply have to repaint them :p

In times like this I at first assume that every piece of information coming from either side of the conflict is false. That is the only way to try to stay objective.

@ArtTem I know this Thread might not be easy for you, but could you please use arguments instead of silly pictures? You will soon discover that proper arguments work much better.

[ProfTournesol 956]

@ArtTem I know this Thread might not be easy for you, but could you please use arguments instead of silly pictures? You will soon discover that proper arguments work much better.

+1 (5 char)

[spooky lynx 73]

We don't even need to repaint, many of Ukrainian vehicles have almost the same paint scheme as Russian ones, which is dated back to last USSR years (example is that six BMDs of 25th brigade).

@All: I would agree about arguments, but it's not easy to speak with some persons who just speak with 80's Raegan-style propaganda slogans no matter what their opponents try to speak about. Asking for ignoring the opposite point of view and constant labeling it as propaganda from undemocratic dictatorship for sake of preventing discussion does not help much, don't you think so?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[spooky lynx 73]

Just coincidence.

[ProfTournesol 956]

@All: I would agree about arguments, but it's not easy to speak with some persons who just speak with 80's Raegan-style propaganda slogans no matter what their opponents try to speak about. Asking for ignoring the opposite point of view and constant labeling it as propaganda from undemocratic dictatorship for sake of preventing discussion does not help much, don't you think so?

Anyway, any personal attacks, may it be through pictures, aren't the best way to discuss, don't you think ?

[spooky lynx 73]

Anyway, any personal attacks, may it be through pictures, aren't the best way to discuss, don't you think ?

Yes, if it's really personal attack but not just a little bit rude joke.

[mistyronin 1181]

[spooky lynx 73]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPbR6j3_pe8

At the end of video locals show their wound taken in skirmish, some were stabbed with knives.

[mistyronin 1181]

Keeping with the Party of the Regions:

In an emergency meeting, the Party of Regions – which disassociated itself with deposed president Viktor Yanukovych after his move to Russia – has drafted a resolution asking the "protesters in the east to put down weapons and evacuate government buildings," according to Ukrainian Channel 5 correspondent Myroslava Petsa.

- - - - - - - - - -

he Donetsk Region has defined the questions to be put on the May 11 referendum, stated regional Councilor Irina Popova. There will be just two of them:

1) Do you support the creation of an independent Donetsk Republic?

2) Of which state should a Donetsk Republic be part of: Ukraine or the Russian Federation?

The Central Election Commission of Donetsk Region has already been allocated a headquarters building next to the regional government administration and is currently forming the list of members.

- - - - - - - - - -

At the end of video locals show their wound taken in skirmish, some were stabbed with knives.

I can't see any knive, to me it's more likely a injury made by a rifle blunt hit.

Edited April 16, 2014 by MistyRonin

[spooky lynx 73]

Highly doubt that anyone will listen to them. After all the things happened PoR are treated as prostitutes.

[Tonci87 163]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPbR6j3_pe8

At the end of video locals show their wound taken in skirmish, some were stabbed with knives.

Lol, those aren´t knive wounds, I know what they look like. But did these people really try to take away the guns of the soldiers? I´m honestly amazed that noone was killed.

About the surrendered BMDs:

It was just on the news here in Germany. They interviewed one of the guys from the BMDs and he said that they are from Crimea, that they came to help the Russians in the east Ukraine. Somehow it looks more and more like those BMDs didn´t change sides but came as a propaganda and motivational tool.

@ArtTem It is not just a digital symbol, it´s flamebaiting, something that can get you kicked out of this thread.

[mistyronin 1181]

( Reuters ) Russian military activity increases near Ukraine border since last week

Russia has increased its military activity near the border with Ukraine markedly since late last week, a Reuters reporting team said after making return visits to the frontier zone where NATO says Moscow has amassed 40,000 troops.

Russia's military moved equipment and weaponry around the border area on Wednesday but there was no clear evidence they were preparing either to pull back or advance.

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Guardian ) Kiev's grip on eastern Ukraine weakens as pro-Russians seize army vehicles

The militia who captured the armoured vehicles on Wednesday looked like professionals. They had Kalashnikovs, flak jackets, ammunition. One even carried a tube-shaped green grenade-launcher. Some hid their faces under black balaclavas. Others waved and smiled. All wore an orange and black ribbon – originally a symbol of the Soviet victory over fascism, and now the colours of the east's snowballing anti-Kiev movement.

The armed men, meanwhile, made little secret of the fact they took orders from Moscow. Many of them appeared to be Russian troops from Crimea. Asked where he had come from, one told the Guardian: "Simferopol." How were things in Crimea? "Zamechatelna," he said in Russian – splendid. He added: "The old ladies are happy. Because of Russia their pensions have doubled." Had he served in the Ukrainian army and perhaps swapped sides? "No, I'm Russian," he replied.

[Maio 293]

Some posts have been deleted.

Please stick to posting news, interesting videos/pictures and news related comments :)

[akm74 1]

About the surrendered BMDs:

It was just on the news here in Germany. They interviewed one of the guys from the BMDs and he said that they are from Crimea, that they came to help the Russians in the east Ukraine. Somehow it looks more and more like those BMDs didn´t change sides but came as a propaganda and motivational tool.

interesting. Can you provide link to this "interview" ? It make Kiev "official statement" even more confusing...

[mistyronin 1181]

interesting. Can you provide link to this "interview" ? It make Kiev "official statement" even more confusing...

It's also in the article I posted from The Guardian. But yeah, Kiev announcement says that they recognize its their vehicles.

Seems that all information about the "taking" of the vehicles came from Reuters, while The Guardian quote his own journalist on the ground interviewing the troops recognizing that are "Russians from Crimea".

I'm afraid it's -> Fog of war

One option could be that they are indeed taken vehicles from the Ukrainian Army, but the ones who did say that were Russians from Simerofol ( we have to remember that were equipped WAY better than the other militias, and had rocket launchers, AKS-74, wear SURPAT and striped shirts below, etc.. )

That seems to be supported with this Al-Jazeera article:

Pro-Russian gunmen seize Ukrainian carriers

The troops on those vehicles wore green camouflage uniforms, had automatic weapons and grenade launchers and at least one had the St George ribbon - a symbol of the pro-Russian insurgency in eastern Ukraine - attached to his uniform.

From the BBC:

One officer said he had not "come to fight" and would never obey orders to shoot his "own people".

"A column was blocked by a crowd of local people in Kramatorsk with members of a Russian diversionary-terrorist group among them," the defence ministry said its statement.

The military vehicles were then taken to Sloviansk where they are being held by "people in uniforms who have no relation to Ukraine's armed forces," the ministry said.

The Ukrainian troops appear to have been disarmed before being fed by pro-Russian militants at a cafe in Sloviansk and then put on a bus back to their home city of Dnipropetrovsk.

To add more chaos:

( The Moscow Times ) Slovyansk Residents Fearful Amid Unrest

According to The Associated Press, one of the men atop an armored vehicle said the men were Ukrainian servicemen who had defected to the pro-Russian side, though other media reports suggested the men may not have defected voluntarily.

Earlier media reports suggested that police in the city had sided with the protesters, but several police officers told The Moscow Times they remained "politically neutral."

The "green men" also seem to have been seen in Pchyolkino.

Photo of the "green men" with the BMDs.

Edited April 16, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Russia will ask PACE to return a financial contribution for this year.

http://izvestia.ru/news/569145#ixzz2z4E3Igwf

Russia does not intend to make concessions PACE and to implement its requirements for the cancellation of the referendum in the Crimea, as well as the withdrawal from the territory of the Russian troops. In addition, in the near future, the Russian delegation may require PACE to return Russia's contribution for this year, the amount of which exceeds €22 million.

[Tonci87 163]

interesting. Can you provide link to this "interview" ? It make Kiev "official statement" even more confusing...

http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ostukraine108.html

Everything seems very confusing. Kiew admitts that 6 BMDs have been captured by the Seperatists. They say that the vehicels have been trapped near Kramatorsk, it is unclear what happened to the crews. Now that I think of it, there is no footage with Crewmembers of said vehicels, you know, with the typical tanker gear on them. Only separatist soldiers, even behind the wheels. So what happened to the crews?

Also take a look at this:

That Pilot is either insane or very brave

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f92_1397654344

Edited April 16, 2014 by Tonci87

[mistyronin 1181]

Also take a look at this:

That Pilot is either insane or very brave

I've seen similar flights in aerial exhibitions, for example I saw in one a Harrier and in another an F18. Not specially a "complex" maneuver.

The only problem is the sound, it can't be appreciated in the videos, but in RL fighter planes sounds like hell at low altitude ( like a bomb exploding ).

[Maio 293]

Also take a look at this:

That Pilot is either insane or very brave

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f92_1397654344

Apparently, that MIG 29 belongs to the Ukrainian Falcons Aerobatic Group.

Here is a still shot of its underbelly:

[Tonci87 163]

I've seen similar flights in aerial exhibitions, for example I saw in one a Harrier and in another an F18. Not specially a "complex" maneuver.

The only problem is the sound, it can't be appreciated in the videos, but in RL fighter planes sounds like hell at low altitude ( like a bomb exploding ).

Well considering the overall state of the Ukrainian military I don´t think that their pilots have very much training...

Itersting choice of Missiles on that thing. It looks like Air-Air missiles to me, not exactly what you would use in case of an armed insurgency.

EDIT: Oh it belongs to an Aerobatic group. Well I guess they have enough training.