Ukraine General

[spooky lynx 73]

The vehicles you refer, are unarmed and cleaned of all military technology, unlike the ones used in Crimea.

Cleaned means without weapons, scopes and default radios. All other parts are preserved. So with a bit of luck and money you may get real APC and even arm it (I mean notorious "Ukrainian praporshiks" who may sell everything from camo suits to entire tanks).

Harkov: protesters beat Pravy sektor activists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He1cJuX61Q4

Edited April 13, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[Tonci87 163]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RWW0No0Kdw

Two civilians wounded after Kyiv forces APCs opened fire at the cars near Slavyansk town.

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:36 ----------

Not in any but still there is a number of companies which sell APCs (BTR-60/-70/-80, BRDM, MT-LB and MT-LBu). According to Russian laws such vehicles are registered as agriculture or communal machines and get licence plates of this group. I've provided a number of links to such companies. Yes, expencive but still...

They learn from Pravy sektor and Svoboda:)

Civilian...with an AK by his hands.

Likely those dudes were blocking the road to stop the APCs. The guy on the ground seems to be wearing some kind of uniform. It is also likely that the whole thing is fake. I always get suspicious if something is recorded with a potato.

Anyway, lesson learned: Don´t try to argue with a BTR.

[spooky lynx 73]

Another news video from Slavyansk. I've noticed those people wearing the same camo. Haven't seen such pattern in any of Ukrainian or Russian branch, seems like some commercial one.

[blu3sman 11]

Harkov: protesters beat Pravy sektor activists.

Seems like collaborationist mob beats random civilians who dont wear fascist ribbons.

[mistyronin 1181]

Another news video from Slavyansk. I've noticed those people wearing the same camo. Haven't seen such pattern in any of Ukrainian or Russian branch, seems like some commercial one.

I don't know the pattern either, but the Saint George's ribbons seem to identify their origin.

I think that someone in the Kremlin has realized that sending troops with the official Russian uniform and call them Self-Defence was a bad idea. Now Russian invading troops are using a new uniform.

Correction (16:29 )

Seems that the uniform that are using is the Russian SURPAT, so basically, Russia has not learn the lesson.

The Kremlin is still sending Russian invading soldiers just that this time instead of Digital Flora like in Crimea, they use SURPAT uniforms... ( the one used by the Spetsnaz )

Edited April 13, 2014 by MistyRonin
Adding "correction"

[spooky lynx 73]

http://www.srvv.org/en/catalog/1308/

Approx. 145 Euros and you are Kremlin spetsnaz too:) BTW I have that digital flora suit in my wardrobe.

Guys please realise that there's no "official uniform" term in any branch of RF military or Internal troops. Every kind of it is freely available at the market. You may see that many of PS or Svoboda folks wear either US woodland uniform or Multicam, flecktarn is used even more often. Does it mean that they are either KSK or some US SOCOM dudes? Sure no. So it's a bit naive to say 'they wear Russian kind of pattern so they are Russian soldiers'.

BTW from the TV report of Vesti-24 I watch now that camo ast Slavyansk self-defence is from SBU stocks, it was shown how self-defence guys seize weapons and uniform stocks.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[mistyronin 1181]

So it's a bit naive to say 'they wear Russian kind of pattern so they are Russian soldiers'.

Well the shop that a month ago was selling thousands of packs of how to dress like a Russian soldier ( Digital Flora uniform, vest, helmet, and weapons included ) with an offer that for each dozen packs sold they will give you a BTR, a Ural, or a Tigr...

Today offer a Spetsnaz pack with ( SURPAT, vest, helmet, cap, weapons included )... It's already been sold by dozens with training courses as extra.

Yeah, that is indeed more feasible... How could I be so naive to believe that were Russian soldiers...

[scrim 1]

http://www.srvv.org/en/catalog/1308/

Approx. 145 Euros and you are Kremlin spetsnaz too:) BTW I have that digital flora suit in my wardrobe.

Guys please realise that there's no "official uniform" term in any branch of RF military or Internal troops. Every kind of it is freely available at the market. You may see that many of PS or Svoboda folks wear either US woodland uniform or Multicam, flecktarn is used even more often. Does it mean that they are either KSK or some US SOCOM dudes? Sure no. So it's a bit naive to say 'they wear Russian kind of pattern so they are Russian soldiers'.

BTW from the TV report of Vesti-24 I watch now that camo ast Slavyansk self-defence is from SBU stocks, it was shown how self-defence guys seize weapons and uniform stocks.

If you actually believe this, I pity you.

[spooky lynx 73]

Well the shop that a month ago was selling thousands of packs of how to dress like a Russian soldier ( Digital Flora uniform, vest, helmet, and weapons included ) with an offer that for each dozen packs sold they will give you a BTR, a Ural, or a Tigr...

Today offer a Spetsnaz pack with ( SURPAT, vest, helmet, cap, weapons included )... It's already been sold by dozens with training courses as extra.

Yeah, that is indeed more feasible... How could I be so naive to believe that were Russian soldiers...

SURPAT (if it is, I think the colors of self-defence uniform have more green and tan) is sold for about 4 or 5 years already. Oh and one more thing: real SSO operators would already punish their Ukrainian counterparts and take all their BTRs in Slavyansk - just because they have much more combat experience and plenty of modern AT devices. But still those guys behave like really local self-defence.

[Tonci87 163]

Yeah, local self defence with gear and weapons supplied by russia. Noone is saying that those dudes are spetsnaz

[mistyronin 1181]

This is supposed to be streaming live from the Ukrainian city of Zaporizhya (230km west of Donetsk).

- - - - - - - - - -

BTW, an Ukrainian journalist is making some claims in his Facebook about who are the pro-Russian people in Sloviansk.

Ukrainian journalist Dmitry Tymchuk claims on Facebook that "up to 600 people" are part of the pro-Russia forces in Sloviansk. (Translated by BBC Monitoring)

Tymchuk says the 600 are made up of 100 Russian intelligence workers, with the rest being led by the entourages of an oligarch and a well-known crime lord.

Edited April 13, 2014 by MistyRonin

[akm74 1]

Yeah, local self defence with gear and weapons supplied by russia. Noone is saying that those dudes are spetsnaz

You guys seem like forget that most local police and security services already joined protesters. They have lots of weapons...

[Tonci87 163]

You guys seem like forget that most local police and security services already joined protesters. They have lots of weapons...

Oh please, you can´t be serious.

[akm74 1]

Oh please, you can´t be serious.

but i'm...:o You guys act like a lunatics sometime (in good terms). "hey, they must have support from Russia.." Of course they are..from Russia, from local billionaires and local politician who don't want to loose their "chairs". But so do other side. The only difference .."freaks in Kiev" has much less support. That's why they only manage to control "green sector" in capital.

Edited April 13, 2014 by AKM74

[Tonci87 163]

I don´t think you understand the significance of this.

Putin is currently trying to destabilize the region. A harsh and violent reaction from Kiew is precisely what he wants. Basically he wants to bring the Ukraine into a state of civil war so that his army can roll in as a peacekeeping force to protect the ethnic russians (against agressions that were basically started by him). He doesn´t care at all that many Ukrainins and Russians will die before he achieves his goals. I really don´t know how anybody can support such a man.

[akm74 1]

I don´t think you understand the significance of this.

Putin is currently trying to destabilize the region. A harsh and violent reaction from Kiew is precisely what he wants. Basically he wants to bring the Ukraine into a state of civil war so that his army can roll in as a peacekeeping force to protect the ethnic russians (against agressions that were basically started by him). He doesn´t care at all that many Ukrainins and Russians will die before he achieves his goals. I really don´t know how anybody can support such a man.

if you really believe to what you just write... i don't see a reason to even argue with this. Sorry. "against agressions that were basically started by him" this part simply nonsense.

[Tonci87 163]

If you can´t understand that this "uprising" in the east ukraine is basically organised and fueled by his administration then there is really no need to further talk to you.

BTW, did the Russian trainig maneuvers on the other side of the border end alerady? What are the troops still doing there?

[akm74 1]

If you can´t understand that this "uprising" in the east ukraine is basically organised and fueled by his administration then there is really no need to further talk to you.

BTW, did the Russian trainig maneuvers on the other side of the border end alerady? What are the troops still doing there?

i'm confuse. You asking what Russian troops still doing on Russian territory ???

[arttem 1]

i'm confuse. You asking what Russian troops still doing on Russian territory ???

It destroys all their understanding. Moreover troops will start to depart to bases soon. I think it ruins everything in their universe. Why on base! Why not attack! Hey! Come back. Attack Ukraine. They still believe that somebody in Russia is interested in Ukraine. LOL.

Putin said one time: Russian troops will be there only with UN forces. Dot.

And yes, i agree with you, troops stays on homeland territory.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Putin said one time: Russian troops will be there only with UN forces. Dot.

But who can still believe what he says ? How much did he already lie about Crimea ?

[akm74 1]

But who can still believe what he says ? How much did he already lie about Crimea ?

You guys act as "professional journalists" from time to time :) kind of "no mater what i really think .. it only mater what i will write".

[mistyronin 1181]

Putin said one time: Russian troops will be there only with UN forces. Dot.

With your permission I'll keep this sentence. For now we already have some informations pointing on the opposite. But let's see how the events develop next week.

Just curious, if its widely proved that Putin lied what's gonna be your reaction?

You guys act as "professional journalists" from time to time :) kind of "no mater what i really think .. it only mater what i will write".

Aprox. a month ago:

( The Independent ) President Putin won’t rule out force – but will not annex Crimea to Russia

Edited April 13, 2014 by MistyRonin

[akm74 1]

Does anybody ask where all of those weapons suddenly came from? Kiew Protests have been peacefull for months and here we see such an escalation after only a few days. This makes me quite certain that russia is involved.

do you ever care to watch video from

Protesters surround and disarm group of so-called National guard troops. Artyomovsk, 12.04.14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwhErv6Wujc

jump to 8.21

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

Aprox. a month ago:

( The Independent ) President Putin won’t rule out force – but will not annex Crimea to Russia

Ok, let me rephrase it. With no Russian troops present, with crystal clear referendum in Crimea. Do you personalty think they will vote to join Russia or stay in Ukraine ? Just be honest please.

[mistyronin 1181]

Ok, let me rephrase it. With no Russian troops present, with crystal clear referendum in Crimea. Do you personalty think they will vote to join Russia or stay in Ukraine ? Just be honest please.

Let's be 100% clear:

With a crystal clear and peaceful referendum ( with UN monitors from all over the world ). I'd personally support myself the results; whatever they are: to be independent, to join Russia, to be an autonomy, to be just part of Ukraine ( in Crimea, Donetsk Region, Chechnya, Dagestan, Scotland, Quebec, Catalonia, wherever there is such feeling ).

I'm always all for the peaceful auto-determination right. I understand that are people who make the social contract with their governments, not otherwise. In that sense I really like a Thomas Jefferson quote: "When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty".

About the results, honestly I don't know. Reading opinion polls from a year ago, Crimean people didn't seem to favor a union with Russia. But again the polls are from a year ago. I understand that the opinion may have changed lately due to the recent events.

But now it's really hard to distinguish the Crimean people's real opinion, with so much and strong propaganda from Russia's and Ukraine's governments.

Edited April 13, 2014 by MistyRonin

[maturin 12]

Unlike Crimea, the majority of the population in Donetsk and the rest of the east is not in favor of secession.

That's why Russian-backed radicals need to start an insurgency. Only violence and the threat of all-out civil war will scare people into accepting the protection of the only force that has the military strength and regime stability to (maybe) halt the fighting. Russia.

Anyways, in the mean time it's a whole lot of fun to see Russians actively supporting armed rebels, after 25 years of fawning over every dictator that massacres his opponents. Keep cheering while the Kremlin turns Ukraine into Libya!