astral4eg 10 Posted March 9, 2014 Sevastopol. Belbek: MB-A4515 (Online Broadcast) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nodunit 397 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Here are the most popular and the most realistic view of the situation in Ukraine in Russia. Do not forget turn on english subtitles Anti Soviet means anti Russian? Toppling monuments of Lenin is an attack on Russia..that seems to be an extreme way of thinking. A statue is a symbol but nothing more, it is not necessarily a symbol to a particular nation in its current state but it can represent the past, a time that a countries people may not have cared for and so decided to act out agressively to it. That would be akin to saying that burning the stars and stripes is an attack on the United States itself, and demands firm reaction! It's a voice of displeasure sure but an actual attack? Please, its just a flag being burned, its just a statue being destroyed, they are nothing more than symbols and contain no more or less power than what we instill upon them. Why does an attack on Soviet ideology mean an attack on the Russian Federation, did Russians not seek to free themselves from the Soviet Union when Gorbachev was in office? Had to stop watching at the bit where he went on about the situation in Ukraine meaning that if Russians supported them in any way that they then support NATO missiles being on their borders and aimed at civilian targets, and that you are either an idiot or an enemy...thats a very "with us or against us" mentality the US went through with Bush and the bullshit war on terrorism :\ Edited March 9, 2014 by NodUnit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barakokula31 10 Posted March 9, 2014 Croatian MiG-s 21 stuck in Ukraine.http://theaviationist.com/2014/03/04/croatian-migs-stuck-odessa/ Well, there goes half the airforce :p On a more serious note, though, haven't they said they'll send the MiGs back if war breaks out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
astral4eg 10 Posted March 9, 2014 oh wow, it's even worse over there than I thought. I am really fascinated and concerned about the extent of propaganda in Russian media. This is "normal reaction for west" :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted March 9, 2014 Well, there goes half the airforce :pOn a more serious note, though, haven't they said they'll send the MiGs back if war breaks out? I think there goes our whole airforce..... the rest could be unfit for service.... damn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted March 9, 2014 It's like wife that is ready to jump in bed with anyone who has bigger wallet than husband, I'd say. Which in the civilized world, does not grant the husband the right to smack her around, or beat her to a pulp. Also, in the real world, the wife could get a divorce. Russia doesn't seem to understand that Ukraine has taken out a divorce several decades ago. The way you argue about Russia's "rights" is exactly, down to a nickle, the way that a certain 20th century German right wing dictator argued among his confidants. Hope you're proud of yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted March 9, 2014 It's like wife that is ready to jump in bed with anyone who has bigger wallet than husband, I'd say. What would you do in that case? It's quite a normal thing in Europe. The only think you can do is divorce her, and if you want call her 'whore'. But you can't hit her or threaten her, or take her properties ( that is against the law ). That would be a really primary, prehistoric reaction. Which is again what I said about Putin's policies. And security threat does not include only threat of direct invasion (it's a total failure when it reaches this level). It also includes supporting rebellions and direct attacks on the countries that are friendly to us. Includes separatism support in such countries and in our own territory, 'color revolutions'. Includes demanding of one-sided disarmament. Includes expanding of military blocks further to our borders despite assurances not to do it. Includes creation of military bases around our territory. Rebellions / separatism is an internal issue, that should be solved with dialog and allowing the people to vote their future; and if need use the less amount possible of legal violence ( not shooting demonstrators ). After all a country is nothing more than an agreement between people. What you can't do is to invade others, or threaten people to vote what you want or agree with you. But I guess that is what JdB said previously, that in Russia power is understood as force of arms and intimidation, not dialog and cooperation like in Europe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nodunit 397 Posted March 9, 2014 It's like wife that is ready to jump in bed with anyone who has bigger wallet than husband, I'd say. And what gives you the right to determine wether or not she can or cannot do that? If Ukraine wants to have dealings with others then its not anyones choice other than themselves to decide that. Using aggressive behavior is a surefire way to make your wife never want to see you again and quite possibly take some form of legal action. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted March 9, 2014 What would you do in that case? It's quite a normal thing in Europe. The only think you can do is divorce her, and if you want call her 'whore'. But you can't hit her or threaten her, or take her properties ( that is against the law ). That would be a really primary, prehistoric reaction. Which is again what I said about Putin's policies. I would divorce and quit all financial support and relations. But continuing my allegory after me calling for divorce wife will scream that quitting all the relations and financial support is an attempt to influence at her and opress her freedom, calling her 'whore' is racist and nationalist insult. And all the previous life with me was terrible and I must pay her descent sum to compensate her suffering. No matter of the facts that I had spent already tons of money for repair of our house, food, bills etc., had suffered heavy wounds while defending her from hooligan. That's what is happening since 1991. Rebellions / separatism is an internal issue, that should be solved with dialog and allowing the people to vote their future; and if need use the less amount possible of legal violence ( not shooting demonstrators ). After all a country is nothing more than an agreement between people. What you can't do is to invade others, or threaten people to vote what you want or agree with you. But I guess that is what JdB said previously, that in Russia power is understood as force of arms and intimidation, not dialog and cooperation like in Europe. Oh I saw clearly what dialog and cooperation were with Qaddaffi and Assad... ---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ---------- And what gives you the right to determine wether or not she can or cannot do that? If Ukraine wants to have dealings with others then its not anyones choice other than themselves to decide that. Using aggressive behavior is a surefire way to make your wife never want to see you again and quite possibly take some form of legal action. Again I repeat - I'm not against independence but if it is real. Not attempt to sit at two chairs simultaneously. If Ukraine openly supports its nazis who fight against our troops in Chechnya, sends arms to countries that hostile to us (even hurting its own security, removing SAMs from active duty detachments) why should we tolerate it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 473 Posted March 9, 2014 http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/rosjanie-zajeli-kolejne-lotnisko-na-krymie/ejje9 invaders seized airfield some minutes ago http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/ukraina-chodorkowski-wystapil-na-200-leciu-szewczenki-w-kijowie/qfvdy Hodokovsky says that nazis is Russian propaganda and there is not more nazis in Ukraine than now in Russia, shame that Russians believe their lying propaganda , Putin is liar, Russian TV lies cause it is just propaganda , Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
astral4eg 10 Posted March 9, 2014 http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/rosjanie-zajeli-kolejne-lotnisko-na-krymie/ejje9Hodokovsky says that nazis is Russian propaganda and there is not more nazis in Ukraine than now in Russia, shame that Russians believe their lying propaganda , Putin is liar, Russian TV lies cause it is just propaganda , http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26394980 this is BBC, pro-west media... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted March 9, 2014 this is BBC, pro-west media... Not pro west, just from West. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nodunit 397 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) It is best to assume that all media=propaganda, take everything at face value and look into it on your own, everyone has an agenda be it something as basic as "rooting for the home team". Nazi's and other non preferred groups are everywhere, not central to one place. And ultimately I have to ask, Nazi, Communist, Capitalist, east, west and so on, what difference does it make who is doing what if the behaviors are similar across the board, are we doing the lesser evil thing? I'd like to shift focus from all this focus on nazi's for one moment because honestly it's about as sickening as listening our politicans bang on about terrorism and america's national security, it feels like a way to focus and build up a villian and yourself as a hero so that you may justify whatever it is you do, not to mention distracting. I want to know why Russia is being so threatening to the Ukraine military in general, why are they demanding them disarm when they claim to be there on peace keeping operations, why are there a bunch of untagged Russian soldiers running around in Russian vehicles with Russian paint schemes, why are Russia politicians saying they aren't Russian soldiers? Edited March 9, 2014 by NodUnit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
messiahua 0 Posted March 9, 2014 No nazis patrolling Kiev, I can assure you :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
comm_yuri 10 Posted March 9, 2014 This is "normal reaction for west" :) no, this is reaction of sane rational person who isn't one sided and can differ between cheap propaganda, unconfirmed information, dubious claims, controversial information, evidence and visual facts. That person is a Russian national ( and probably also communist according to his stiff anger about removal of Lenin statues ?? ) who agrees on military action ( aggresson ) of his nation against other nations. Obviously someone like him is very far from being neutral, cool headed and decent. This on Russian TV too btw ? just shocking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
batto 17 Posted March 9, 2014 Hodokovsky says that nazis is Russian propaganda and there is not more nazis in Ukraine than now in Russia This! Russian youth taking law in their hands when dealing with drug dealers, immigrants and homosexuals, ignored by police, supported by officials. >inb4 it's good thing No it's not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akm74 1 Posted March 9, 2014 No nazis patrolling Kiev, I can assure you :) no. they not. They already in... https://twitter.com/catfitz/status/436226274671865856/photo/1 Here is some interesting reading. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/opinion/putin-western-hypocrosy/index.html?iid=article_sidebar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
astral4eg 10 Posted March 9, 2014 Not pro west, just from West. okey, just from West No nazis patrolling Kiev, I can assure you :) yep, it is a fake and this fake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_owjoTffMI and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK4w8JQVPIg and this and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phGE_aLRFz4 this guys from right sector Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
comm_yuri 10 Posted March 9, 2014 Here is some interesting reading.http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/opinion/putin-western-hypocrosy/index.html?iid=article_sidebar I hope you read all of it. It's in fact a good and very neutral view on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akm74 1 Posted March 9, 2014 I hope you read all of it. It's in fact a good and very neutral view on it. i did. That's why i'm share it with you guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted March 9, 2014 I may repeat myself again. Russian media really likes to throw around the words "nazis" and "fashists". Of course there are indeed a few nazis in Kiew and they may have gained a more prominent position during the last month. However that doesn´t change the fact that common people don´t really like them. I bet that Ukrainians don´t like them any more than russian common people do. There is no chance that the nazis might come into a powerfull position after the elctions. Unless the ukrainian people are pushed more into the extremist corner. On the other hand, the cossaks on the crim behave exactly like nazis would. And on top of that they are best friends with chetniks. They are fashists too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akm74 1 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/03/web-exclusive-russias-view-of-the-ukraine-invasion/?hpt=ac_mid Edited March 9, 2014 by AKM74 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colossus 2 Posted March 9, 2014 One cannot deny that the revolt did in part contain far-right-wing entities and that parliament do have far-right-wing members. However, as I see it, the Russian government and media portrays it as if these agents control and influence nearly everything in Ukrainian politics. How can 8% of the current parliament do this, if I may ask? How can these 8% manage to ousted their president, their leader, which ran away and wasn't heard from for days? Maybe the answer lays more to the fact that members of the Party of Regions, Yanukovych's own party, signed off and went independent instead, which tipped the scale towards the then opposition. Now, I'm not sure whether or not the elections in Ukraine will go through in May, as announced, but I reckon that recent events with Crimea might actually have fueled radicalization of voters. Giving Svoboda more seats. Basically what could have happen here is an inverse consequence as a result of the deployment of the so-called "civil protection" army, which roams Crimea. One could argue that these "civil protection" folks could either be shot or arrested on sight, as they could be described as unidentifiable armed militia. Mercenaries, if you will. But in a way I'm happy that this hasn't happened. It would most likely end up in a blood bath, one way or another. If there are anyone who deserves medals, it's the Ukrainian soldiers, for their discipline and constraint in taking violent action against their unlawful occupiers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) On the other hand, the cossaks on the crim behave exactly like nazis would. And on top of that they are best friends with chetniks. They are fashists too. If remember correctly that cossacks (not all maybe?) were allied with Nazi Germany during WW2 while chetniks maintained collaboration with Germans. Regarding the cossacks... I disagree with stuff like Pusyy Riot and other homopropagnda , only reason I'm posting tis video is to show show the mentality and attitude of cossacks. Indeed they are weak because they have to use weapons and fists to handle some harmless clowns. This one comes from vice and has some extra footage. Words like "American whores, go to America, this is not America" What does America have to do with that? Edited March 10, 2014 by Sudayev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akm74 1 Posted March 10, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/05/clash-crimea-western-expansion-ukraine-fascists Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
