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It appears that Great Britain is refraining from using any severe sanctions on Russia.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/03/ukraine-crisis-britain-sanctions-idUKL6N0M04CU20140303

Having London as an ally. Yeah, whatever...

and later Brits will ask "why there are so many Nazis there, why they hate West as Russia" , cause business of bank owners is more important than freedom, "pecunia non olet"

Poland knows it from 1939

plus again as i said - pork industry example

Edited by vilas

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not even a rat, rat was cause he escaped, ordering other country troops against own nation is betrayal of the state and there is only one punishment for it

Maybe Yanukovych was Ukrainian by born, but for real he's in russian pocket, representing the Kremlin's will on Ukraine. He's a viceroy. That is why he didn't have any barriers to order open fire towards people in Maidan, because he felt he was the king and they are stupid Ukrainian peasants who can be kicked and beaten like a rag. This position also entitled him to rob the country and do the best to keep the Ukraine under the russian umbrella. Orders of use of deadly force came from Kremlin and Yanukowych had to obey, because Kremlin is aware of the scale of the protests and do not wish having own Maidan for example in Moscow.

In my opinion elections who let him to victory were rigged in some way, a normally elected leader in democratic country would listen to the people and carry the dialogue and step down if necessary to avoid revolt and damage to country.

Which democratically chosen leader escapes to other country and calls from armed intervention? Only a rotten individual behind a moral proxy is able to do that. The ones who give harbor to such traitor only acknowledge their true intentions.

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 ----------

and later Brits will ask "why there are so many Nazis there, why they hate West as Russia" , cause business of bank owners is more important than freedom, "pecunia non olet"

Poland knows it from 1939

plus again as i said - pork industry example

Due to their safe location they assured the danger would never come to their kingdom and they didn't bother to physically support other nations. What if many soldiers from Europe didn't come to the UK to defend their homeland and fronts, what if the USA would limit themselves only to "moral help"? The swastika would fly from London to Edinburgh.

Intervening in Crime would only harm their business relations with Russia, so ruling body of this country is not interested on pushing hard.

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some comments in internet says that all this is all show and it is international conspiration to make people not look at financial crisis, that Russia will move back, Ukraine will move back, people in west will be happy that case was solved, people in the east will not be thinking about poverty and support governments, Russians will be supporting Putin cause he will act like peacekeeper, more money in different countries will go to weapon business etc.

why i am quoting such voice ? because it sounds sense, Putin will secure Crimea, Russians will win refferendum, and the only problems will have usual Ukrainians who, as lived in povery, will live in poverty again, but as they dared to stand against rich, they will be punished economically cause "noone shall stand against rich"

sounds rational and sound plausible or sensless ? or simply Putin believed in hot blood an provocation on Ukraine and now he has trouble cause "nazis" on which he rely so much didn't attacked when he provoked and now he is in bad mood cause his provocation didn't fuse

Due to their safe location they assured the danger would never come to their kingdom and they didn't bother to support physically other nations. What if many soldiers from Europe didn't come to the UK to defend their homeland and fronts, what if the USA would limit themselves only to "moral help"? The swastika would fly from London to Edinburgh.

Intervening in Crime would only harm their business relations with Russia, so ruling body of this country is not interested on pushing hard.

it show our hypocrisy of modern world , everyone uses word "freedom" but noone will act for freedom, only for business and those who say "nationalism is bad" in first mind reaction think "because their nationalist don't buy our product, but when we buy our product it is not nationalism" ,

only result of this will be real nationalism and growth of distrust in Ukraine and in my country (a lot of people do not like Ukrainians due to 1940s, so they keep separated both from Russia and Ukraine case )

Putin want to divide nations in EU and those who want to be in EU, so to isolate Ukraine (cause nationalists will isolate themselves, now they have reason, West shown them middle finger)

Ukrianians wanted to EU, now "thanx" to this Putin action , they will be more isolated , not by force, but due to their own feelings , percentage of nationalists will grow, Ukrainians will vote them, and Putin will be sitting and laughing "ghahahaha, you not obeyed me, you thought you can join west, now west do not want you"

so Ukraine will get in deep debts, Russia will help financially and take Antonov and T80 factory and they will have again all T80 run etc.

Putin wanted divide Ukrainians from aspirations to leave his area of business, but this will be realised by fact, that now nationalizm there will fly high,

if this is the plan and this plan will work , than it will be visible how to take another country (with time people seeing Russian economy growth will want joing Russia themselves)

if this is true plan, than Putin is master of intrigues for 200% and most effective politician in the world

---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

Edited by vilas

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Unthinkable view for RT standards.

She has balls :) Edited by Sudayev

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omg. Sudayev - articless in press - we never had such brave gov and ministers etc.

previously opposition had 32% and ruling party 25%, now rulling gov will have higher rate , corrupted guys whom we wanted dethrone will be heroes in polls,

Russia said it was just maneuvers of Russian troops and Russian troops returning to bases

Americans say that sanction will cause economical crisis in USA so seems like USA doesn't feel enough power (after A-Stan and Iraq which costed them a lot of money) and Russian top rich people have a lot of US shares plus credits in US banks plus Russia uses dollars on markets ,

so maybe Putin with China want to hit world (by economy) and be/show that he is first superpower and now Russia is world leader ?

also maybe this all is NWO-Russian war , NWO said "Ukraine will be part of our cheap labour place" and Putin says "do not get into my area" and in such case Putin is saviour cause in future Ukraine will develop better than being cheap labour only ?

time will show

some sources say that China already bought ca 5% of Ukrainian land (farm industry)

maybe this hit was to protect Chinese interests ?

too many hipotesis (i try to not keep one mainstream hypothesis as "Putin want to establish USSR again")

our independent press writes different than mainstream press: Poland had their "want to revolution" in 1980 but Martial Law ended this and in 1989 we had "big resale" , Ukraine is country ten times more corrupted than Poland ever was and people also had their revolution, but now different forces want to controll it, cause wast of Ukraine is Pro-Russian, west of Ukraine is nationalistic and center , Maidan, Kiev is pro EU, pro West, there are 3 forces in Ukraine, nationalistic, proEU and proRussian,

two of those sides have foreign support, Russia uses force, EU doesn't use force but used support believing that center will take government (join EU in future, cheap labour, market) , only nationalists do not have any foreign support, so there is maybe action to get rid of this third side , noone would care about them (cause only them stood for independence in economy) , other two sides stand for dependency from this or from other side, those two sides will allow to have profits in future to one side or to second side , so now main play is how to get rid of third force, if they won't be killed during military action when provoked, they would be finished in economical way (noone will deal with Ukraine)

EU shown that EU doesn't react enough hard cause voices of Ukrainians say "we want independence" not "we want to wash streets in London and build as much McDonalds as we can" , so maybe nationalists are important power now ?

Russia has following interests : military industry of Ukraine (famous Antonov planes, T-80 parts factory , now Russians have no spare parts for their MAIN battle tanks, Russians have few hundreds T90 and few thousands T80 for which Ukraine produce parts, as we know since yesterday) plus Ukraine agriculture produces a lot for Russian and Chinese consumer (you need to investigate more to find out how really this is important to China)

Ukraine was called in past by Polish Kings :spichlerz europy - granary/breadbasket of Europe , Ukraine has so much good soil, Ukraine can feed a looooooot of consumers with land they have (very good quality soil in huge quantity and good temperate climate) we all know that Earth is over populated, so food can be power in future, like now oil is, in year 2050 we gonna have overpopulation which is starving, oil replaced by electrical vehicles etc. but people need to eat, than Russia is dictating prices,

issue is - who will keep hand on this soil , China need a lot of food, they must buy it somewhere from someone

maybe this game is not about Crimea but about who will control gov. in Ukraine to control Chinese food, maybe it is game about China ?

maybe i am wrong but maybe west do not yet discovered real Putin intention which is control of Ukrainian breadbasket to sell and transport food for China and to have this in Russian hand and being friend of China (which is world factory as we know)

and thats why Putin risks so much, because prize is so big,

raising tensions in Ukraine = more nazis, more nazis=separation from EU, separation from EU=dependency from Russia, dependency from Russia=Russia do business with China ?

what do you think , stupid conspiracy theory or makes sense?

if this is not bullshit, than Putin is genius

----------

Putin on press conference - change of gov. in Ukraine was not legal - mf***

Edited by vilas

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What should do? I'm not politician nor strategist, so can't tell exact recipe step by step. Lack of necessary knowledge. In general I think, that possibility means responsibility. I think, that USA along with whole NATO, should take all necessary actions, that would show Putin, any warmongering or destabilizing, any agression, cynical scheming or injustice that hurting people and would cost blood now and in the future will cost him more, than he would pay. But keeping in mind, goal here is to keep peace and avoid war and bloodshed unless Putin leave not a choice but defending attacked by him by force. Just Putin must be assured, that if he will act like that, NATO isn't bluffing. Do not know, why Putin thinks, that his stupid imperial ambitions and all this throwin 'elbows is needed for anyone, but if so, he must be certain, that he will not achieve, what he want in such ways. In short: USA should deter him from haughty fussiness as I think, USA + NATO currently has best possibilities to do so.

That's about, what IMO USA should do. Same thing, as strong man that see some bandit trying to rob and intimidate defenseless or weaker people.

Now I'm curious too: what exactly Americans think about all that?

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Same thing, as strong man that see some bandit trying to rob and intimidate defenseless or weaker people.

usual strongman , when he see weak man beaten - reacts and say "do not beat him", but those guys who order US troops /politicians rather say "how much you can pay me for defending you or how much attacker can pay for my lack of reaction, whose gonna pay more money (oil, trade, bank interests)"

just like real cops are not like Dirty Harry (Harry Calahan acted by Clint Eastwood which was for me hero of my childhood)

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Yeah, but I'm saying, what they should do, as was asked, not what I expect.

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At the moment it is simple positioning for oligarch wealth west and east each backing their favoured oligarch , UK particularly has major ukranian oligarch money invested in thier banks as other western cities ,

However in coming days there is chance to see dramatic twist , now we see unarmed ukrain soldiers peacefullystand off against armed russian army and navy , tomorrow or day after we will see shots fired not from these peoples at first but sparked by Ukrainian and Russian nationalist groups , this is the point at which it will require sensible communications or there will be terrible consequences for the poor average person as they will then become involved in a thing that was started on their behalf but not in their interests .

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I feel like I should apologise about the downright retarded behaviour of the UK's government. Sending angry letters isn't going to cut it.

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"Asked if Russian forces took part in operations in Crimea, President Putin says: "No, they did not participate," adding: "There are lots of uniforms that look similar." (AFP)"

This guy is the liar in chief.

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The first real shot is fired :

Gazprom will end discount to Ukraine in April , we begin to see the real rewards for such a strange set of events , European gas prices will almost definitely rise as a result , this will threaten very fragile recovery of western economies .

Really big connotations for the domestic bill payers in europe will come to the fore , I can already hear the big 4 in uk crunching their proffit calculators.

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read what i wrote on previous site if you haven't written - some hypothesis about for example Ukrianian agriculture

-----

regarding "non Russian troops", okay, no problem, so they are terrorists ;)

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Nothing new at this conference. Puti is only developing slogans we know from the russian press and media.

- No word about corruption in Ukraine. He says the revolt was about Yanuk disagreement about the EU pact that started the revolt. (it was only part of it).

- The EU is shares the responsibility for violent actions

- Snipers were used by opposition to shoot crowd at Maidan

- Militants trained in Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine

- Berkut did no harm to people, while angry Maidan crowd was throwing molotovs at them.

- There are no Russian forces present in Crimea. Those are Crimea self defence groups and sympathisers

- West is forgetting about aggression on Iraq, Afghanistan etc...

- When russian people are in danger Russia must step in.

- Russia reserved an option of using armed forces to protect russians living in Ukraine and anywhere else.

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i do not know how it was in `938 or 1939, but when i looked at west medias, than main themes are: Oscars in Hollywood, Oscar Pistorius Trial,

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i do not know how it was in `938 or 1939, but when i looked at west medias, than main themes are: Oscars in Hollywood, Oscar Pistorius Trial,

TBH BBC news has been covering it a fair amount. They have pretty much gone silent about Syria and spend the time on the Ukraine crisis.(and pedo trials too)

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Guys we already have a Thread for this!

Indeed. Threads merged.

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Huh, my page long reply was eaten in the merger. Again, short form:

Political solution: good, military intervention by any party: bad. Military intervention -> damages all of EU's political and economical stance, makes EU vulnerable to outside influence.

In regard to question about USA involvement: Involvement bad, always, also intelligence agency things - everything bad, no matter the excuse (only WW2 involvement was good by US and USSR, because I, as an Austrian wouldn't be happy about living in a Nazi state)

- but also, every huge state craps on human rights and ignores laws, so it's unfair to single out one state and make them look like the only bad guy. -> short form of what I typed before it vanished.

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Nope. I was in an era of facebook (or VKontakte) and cellphones too but without proper planning and advicing simple university practice in the mountains turned to hell. So I don't believe such huge mess was spontaneous and was organized just by average Joes via facebook. Please leave this tales alone.

This "huge mess" grew from a facebook post of Mustafa Nayem - a very popular ukrainian journalist who asked people to gather at Maidan on Nov 21st to protest Yanukovich turning away from EU. People were gathering through the word of mouth from then on. Political parties completely ignored the event until 4th day in.

Meet ukrainian nation.

1) Who told you to be a part of kitchen?

Nobody. I just decided to help because I saw it was too hard for a single guy.

2) Who told 'random people' to bring necessary amount of food supplies in a needed time?

They brought what they bought in a shop (mostly bread, meat and salo, sometimes stuff cooked at home). Nobody told them anything.

So did my friends.

What? Those who were supposedly shot by MVD troops had wounds from behind and made by ammo that is not used by Berkut or VV. Ritual victims that heated up protesters. Ole good way to sparkle up any uprising.

They weren't shot from behind. And yes - they were shot by cops. Incl. a very good person - Sergey Nigoyan that I personally knew (he was shot with a shrapnel from a pump shotgun to his front - and Berkut carries a shitton of these). Cops in every country carry firearms, wake up. It's just a matter of being an inadequate enough retard to use them versus common folk.

Care to explain to me ~100 dead, shot by AKs and SVDs used by cops and nearly 500 wounded on 20th Feb? Also "ritual" victims?

Shit it was hard for me to believe too that our president can be an insane dictator who would spill so much blood in a capital of our peaceful country - but there you go - fucking REALITY:

Man those 5.45 batons right there

No I mean weapons that were able to penetrate armor of MVD transport and molotov cocktails used to be fired at MVD in January.

Molotov cocktails are easily made from 1 bottle, 1 piece of cloth, some gasoline and some motor oil. I now know how to make one too. Soldiers that went through Afghan in 80s were teaching us how to make ones.

There were no weapons that penetrated armor of MVD transports - I don't know wtf you are talking about.

When you are under fire by molotovs and don't get an order to crack down revolt - that's predictable.

They were acting on that order since Nov 30th, very brutally. And what revolt? People singing songs on a square? Oh what a revolt!

Any photos of burned poor protesters? I keep an eye on this topic but hadn't find any. Or is it just horror dream after 'grass tea'?

No. It's what I saw with my own fucking eyes on Feb 18th.

It takes an effort to gather a group of raguli and transport them to the Kyiv. And make same as you do the same.

BTW are you from Poltava itself or from region?

No it doesn't take any effort for people to get on a bus, stop being silly. Yes I'm from Poltava.

I'm talking about Parubiy.

And what about him?

Oh please don't tell me fairytales. I may access to much of info in my company but I have to be asked at least to find needed and copy it.

Why can't you just copy it without getting asked to if you have an access? It's what leaks are - they are always behind backs of everyone.

So an LJ user made a list of LJ users he doesn't like. I fail to see any secret operation there.

Edited by metalcraze

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Spooky, you know well enough that you won't find any images or videos depicting burns, bullet holes or corpses of anyone on these forum as per the rules.

If you wish to see the carnage, and its in no short order, you'll have to look elsewhere.

I can tell you that there are albums on imugr dedicated to that kind of thing and you'll find em if you search "ukraine"..I'd link them myself but as stated, its against the rules and I there aren't any moderators I know enough to antagonize.

- There are no Russian forces present in Crimea. Those are Crimea self defence groups and sympathisers

So he's saying that the soldier who surrounded the Ukrainian soldiers in their base, cut their power and threatened them with gunfire if they would not leave, but rather Crimean self defense...what.

Edited by NodUnit

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i do not know how it was in `938 or 1939, but when i looked at west medias, than main themes are: Oscars in Hollywood, Oscar Pistorius Trial,

You might watch/read the wrong media then...

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No, Vilas is right. While there has been some coverage of the Ukraine, the majority of the news right now is all about the Oscars, the murder trial, etc.

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Hey why not, when things escalated, all that was on the news around here was "justing beiber jailed again" ...sickening.

There really is nothing to be gained from watching the news over here outside of the weather, major events are twisted or focusing on something that doesn't have any relevance to anything ultimately.

Unless its a shooting, then the media turns them into an anti hero...but I digress, western news or at least most of the news over here is fucked on priority.

Edited by NodUnit

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