Ukraine General

[Tonci87 163]

Whie Poroschenko goes for a ceasefire Putin has just put his troops on full combat alert. Way to de-escalate a conflict buddy!

Honestly, is there still anybody who doubts that it is Putins interest to keep the fight going?

Source in german:

http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ukraine-174.html

[spooky lynx 73]

Whie Poroschenko goes for a ceasefire Putin has just put his troops on full combat alert. Way to de-escalate a conflict buddy!

Honestly, is there still anybody who doubts that it is Putins interest to keep the fight going?

While Poroshenko goes for a ceasefire his artillerymen keep shelling Slaviansk and other cities and shelled Russian customs post yesterday (one serviceman wounded). Either UA army and NG don't give a sh!t about orders of their president or the words of Poroshenko mean nothing, and his real orders differ much from what he speaks on camera.

[Tonci87 163]

Sources please.

[spooky lynx 73]

Sources please.

Here are they:

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1707891&tid=105474

http://www.vesti.ru/theme.html?tid=105474

http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/1976-situaciya-na-granice-ukrainskaya-artilleriya-otkryvaet-ogon-po-pogranperehodu-izvarino.html

http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/1975-obstanovka-na-granice-obstrel-kpp-dolzhanskiy.html

[exe_74rus 1]

We wish you a warm winter Europe. Gazprom tired of the situation with gas in Ukraine and the EU attitude to this problem.

Produced planned outages for maintenance of the Nord Stream. And something tells me it's a long time.

Lord Europeans time to build South Stream, otherwise you will just freeze this winter.

On topic, Ukrainians certainly forbidden to take gas from the transit pipeline, but looking at their behavior ...

http://www.vedomosti.ru/companies/news/27918081/gazprom-ostanovit-severnyj-potok-na-tehobsluzhivanie#ixzz357Zs89gh

[mistyronin 1181]

We wish you a warm winter Europe. Gazprom tired of the situation with gas in Ukraine and the EU attitude to this problem.

Produced planned outages for maintenance of the Nord Stream. And something tells me it's a long time.

Lord Europeans time to build South Stream, otherwise you will just freeze this winter.

Uhm... well I can talk for the countries that I have lived. But I haven't used gas nor for heater nor for the kitchen since I was a kid ( at least 25 years ago ). It was really old fashioned and dangerous ( explosions and so on ).

We now have electric calefaction and kitchens. And we use nuclear power to fuel them. So you don't have to worry much.

[spooky lynx 73]

Let's bring some humor into this thread

http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/06/484fab4728d33c69c798c301029a3a21.jpg (122 kB)

http://s1.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/06/2d55ddbaa49daa606ac3ed310ef41f88.jpg (122 kB)

James Wilkes, born in 1964, former SAS serviceman, caught totally drunken in Kiev.

As source says, all the IDs, pictures, two cell phones are in proper place.

[negah 26]

Uhm... well I can talk for the countries that I have lived. But I haven't used gas nor for heater nor for the kitchen since I was a kid ( at least 25 years ago ). It was really old fashioned and dangerous ( explosions and so on ).

We now have electric calefaction and kitchens. And we use nuclear power to fuel them. So you don't have to worry much.

In fact gas ist still broadly used in Germany. Dont know about other countries.

But I guess Europe would not make so much fuss about it if it were not so dependant on it. Just remember that shitstorm in 2009 in media when Russia cut the gas because Ukraine was stealing too much. It was winter and the reserve tanks had to be used, but the crisis was solved pretty fast back then. Still its summer now so we have a lot of time I guess.

As for that former SAS serviceman, I guess he's most likely a mercenary. Just like that Italian guy or those Chechen fighters in eastern Ukraine.

Edited June 21, 2014 by negah

[mistyronin 1181]

James Wilkes, born in 1964, former SAS serviceman, caught totally drunken in Kiev.

As source says, all the IDs, pictures, two cell phones are in proper place.

And to illustrate that point you just show us a couple of photos of a guy with British fatigues ( that have been used widely by the Ukrainian new recruits ), no ID photo ( not even a false or faked one ).

In fact gas ist still broadly used in Germany. Just remember that shitstorm in 2009 in media when Russia cut the gas because Ukraine was stealing too much.

I didn't know that was so vital in Germany. I don't recall anything from 2009. Weird.

[spooky lynx 73]

And to illustrate that point you just show us a couple of photos of a guy with British fatigues ( that have been used widely by the Ukrainian new recruits ), no ID photo ( not even a false or faked one ).

It's up to you to believe it or not, but as for British uniform - it is used without any Union jacks or surname tabs.

[Tonci87 163]

Well here in germany gas get´s used for heating (and even there oil is usually prefered) and that litle crysis back in 2009 was because it happened without any prior warning, so the media made a big deal out of it. By now the government had ample time to make some deals with other suppliers. You know what would be really bad for Russia? If the european states suddenly discover that they can get along without Russian gas. If that happens then Russia will have to drastically lower the production next year.

[surpher 1]

(AP) Russia's Putin calls for compromise in Ukraine

"That President Poroshenko announced a truce is without a doubt an important part of a final settlement, without which no agreement can be reached, and there is no doubt that Russia will support this intention, but in the end the most important thing is a political process," Putin said.

Today:

(BBC) Ukraine separatists 'to join truce', rebel leader says

Pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine say they will observe a ceasefire until Friday morning, responding to the Ukrainian forces' unilateral ceasefire.

The rebel announcement was made in Donetsk by Alexander Borodai, a leader of the self-styled "Donetsk People's Republic" which is defying Kiev.

Edited June 23, 2014 by surpher

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Russian President Putin 'scraps Ukraine military move'

Russia's president has asked parliament to revoke the right of military intervention in Ukraine, where rebels have been fighting government troops.

[vilas 477]

and UA Mi-8 shot down

+ something about how Russian propaganda twists information:

there is currently scandal in Poland cause wire taped talks of ministers reach public and public seen falshood of politicians , not going further in this in this topic, Polish minister said "this can cause conflict of Poland with Russia and Germany", what was translated in Russian TV 5 minutes ago ? "this can cause conflict of Poland with France and Germany"

nice one, word Russia translated as France (orignal Polish verb was removed from information so Russian public didn't hear word "Rosya" but translator said "France", really nice kind of information)

thats why they hear "set under fire" instead "set fire" in their media,

i heard minut ago in Russian TV news, if i not know wired tapes from Polish media - i would know information that Polish minister says about conflict with France and Germany (our foreign pro-US politics) while word "France" was not used in orignal chat, i do not believe that Russian translator doesn't recognize word "Rosya" when he translates Polish news , cause "Francya" is the same in our both languages, and "Rosya" and "Russya" sounds more familiar than "Francya"

maybe it was mistake, but if NOT , than it is really showing how those media work

Edited June 24, 2014 by vilas

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/ukraina-zatrzymano-agenta-mial-przygotowywac-atak-na-polska-ambasade-w-kijowie/zg045

according to Ukrinian special services they caught guy, whom FSB would pay (or payed) 3 000 USD for attacking Polish embassy in Kiev under false flag, clothed as Red Sector activist, according to Ukrainian special services SBU Russian FSB was preparing attack on embassy of NATO and EU member which is Poland, attack was planned on Saturday 28th of June (3 days)

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

c'mon Vilas "dont believe anything you read" didn you say this a while back? and remember your minister who said" working with the US is like giving oral seks" you dont need to fear the russians until they cross the polish border witch never will happen(i hope).

i fear the EU, nato and the US more then the russians, Russia dont read my mails or check us and control us with economic bs like the EU(again, i hope so).

Edited June 25, 2014 by Sgt.Spoetnik

[Tonci87 163]

c'mon Vilas "dont believe anything you read" didn you say this a while back? and remember your minister who said" working with the US is like giving oral seks" you dont need to fear the russians until they cross the polish border witch never will happen(i hope).

i fear the EU, nato and the US more then the russians, Russia dont read my mails or check us and control us with economic bs like the EU(again, i hope so).

Dude I wouldn´t be so sure about that.

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

really you got non propaganda proof Russia is doing the same as the european intelligence services that collect every thing and send it to the yanks? i haven'd and yeah they might do the same, i dont know. we all dont know!

but my other part is still counting, we all get royaly screwed by our own goverment(s) then the EU, that is a fact! and for what? to waste it on who knows what, we dont even know where NATO spends our money one,only what they want us to know.

[Tonci87 163]

really you got non propaganda proof Russia is doing the same as the european intelligence services that collect every thing and send it to the yanks? i haven'd and yeah they might do the same, i dont know. we all dont know!

but my other part is still counting, we all get royaly screwed by our own goverment(s) then the EU, that is a fact! and for what? to waste it on who knows what, we dont even know where NATO spends our money one,only what they want us to know.

You are right, but you have to be realistic, every superpower, be it the EU, the US, China or Russia is very active when it comes to cyber intelligence. The others just hide it a bit better than the US does.

[vilas 477]

i totally agree with Tonic, all countries do the same, just Snowden escaped (which show that US is more democratic, cause they allow him to live, other country intel would give him proposal "look, your mom has car accident tommorow, your sister tommorow will be raped by uknown criminal, you know, back, maybe we can stop those crimnals and protect your family" plus USA maybe doesn't follow every it's worker,

and in case of Putin not invading anyone - i also doubt , Putin is imperialistic nationalist, his electorat praise imperialism, so i doubt i trust in Putin peacefull behaviour in future IF we all not defend Ukraine like we done this year , maybe in year 2018 he would take Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, and in 2020 Poland (because he would have to secure gas pipe to Germany)

[mistyronin 1181]

You are right, but you have to be realistic, every superpower, be it the EU, the US, China or Russia is very active when it comes to cyber intelligence. The others just hide it a bit better than the US does.

In fact the best country in Cyber Intelligence is China, it's funny because while the EU, US and Russia are clashing about that subject, China is spying all of them and copying their technology ( both conventional and military industry ).

Here is a good article about the subject:

( TIME ) What Chinese Cyber-Espionage Says about the Chinese (and U.S.) Economy

Edited June 26, 2014 by MistyRonin

[negah 26]

i totally agree with Tonic, all countries do the same, just Snowden escaped (which show that US is more democratic, cause they allow him to live, other country intel would give him proposal "look, your mom has car accident tommorow, your sister tommorow will be raped by uknown criminal, you know, back, maybe we can stop those crimnals and protect your family" plus USA maybe doesn't follow every it's worker,

and in case of Putin not invading anyone - i also doubt , Putin is imperialistic nationalist, his electorat praise imperialism, so i doubt i trust in Putin peacefull behaviour in future IF we all not defend Ukraine like we done this year , maybe in year 2018 he would take Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, and in 2020 Poland (because he would have to secure gas pipe to Germany)

Dude really? US allowed him to escpae so that he could live? Is it why they forced a plane with the president of Bolivia to land because they thought Snowden is on that plane?

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/americas/bolivia-presidential-plane/

He will be executed in the USA that's why he fled.

And Putin does not give a fuss about Ukraine, Baltic States or Poland, he wanted Crimea and he got it. The ongoing insurgence in the Ukraine is russian attempt to sabotage US control of Ukraine, or why is that a son of US vice president is now member of the board of directors of one of the ukrainian gas companies. In fact that company is entirely controlled by the americans.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27403003

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/biden-und-ukraine-sohn-des-us-vizepraesidenten-arbeitet-fuer-gaskonzern-a-969348.html

It seems indeed that that whole conflict is about gas in Europe, but I highly doubt that Russia is the sole instigator of that conflict.

[Tonci87 163]

It seems indeed that that whole conflict is about gas in Europe, but I highly doubt that Russia is the sole instigator of that conflict.

And you are most certainly right with that.

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Kerry demands Russia action 'in hours'

"It is critical for Russia to show in the next hours, literally, that they are moving to help disarm the separatists, to encourage them to disarm, to call on them to lay down their weapons and begin to be come part of a legitimate political process," Mr Kerry told reporters, after talks with French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius.

(Ukrinform) NSDC confirms Russian border guards killing militants who flee from Ukraine

"Border guards let militants who leave Russia for Ukraine without noticing them, but in the opposite direction they eliminate them," he said.

[Tonci87 163]

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(Ukrinform) NSDC confirms Russian border guards killing militants who flee from Ukraine

Any other sources for that?